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Hey all,

Here is a thought i had last night about tau and how bad the tau have it when the charge happenes. I know some people say this shouldn't happen but when it does its devastating. So I propose the following

Meson Grenades - 5pts per model (May only be taken by Fire Warriors, Pathfinders and Sniper teams)

Defensive Grenades, All close combat weapons count as CCW only.

Power Weapons now do not negate Armour Saves
Power fists do not double strength and negate armour
Force weapons do not count as power weapons (but still can cause instant death due to Ld test)
Lightning Claws do not get the re-roll to wound and do not negate armour saves
Agonisers count as CCW (wound as normal)
Thunder hammers lose the strength bonus and no longer negate armour saves.

Poison weapons work as normal
Any Special rules like FnP and Furious Charge work as normal

The idea behind this is that all power fields are rendered useless, it is a technological innovation (very Tau like). I was also thinking about removing invulnerable saves but the tau have no special weapons anyway so this is moot. Its all about decreasing the number of wounds a squad takes in CC, I hope this isn't too powerful but remember FW/PF are still WS2 T3 I2, normal CCW are still reasonable against them. Any C&C welcome.

They'll still lose, and now you're paying 50% more per guy.

This is worthless upgrade.

...are you serious?

@Darkness - I see your point, its the amount of loss im trying to reduce and therefore any CC Ld modifiers when they do lose. If these don't work its back to the drawing board.

@Cerebrium - Gee thanks, I thought I was. Would you like my alternate.

Meson GENERATOR - 50pts.

In Close combat swap all statlines between combatants and all wargear abilities.

-Whatever fluff fits-

Or what are your ideas??

The Tau background sets them as being poor at cc.
The idea that you are going to make them good at it
will take away what makes the army different. High powered guns over knives and sword.

I do not get why you would think that Tau need to be good at everything when no other army is supposed to be.

If the Tau were to be given a cc buff it would have to be in the form of a allied race, like the Kroot they already have.

I find this rule completely reasonable, tau need to not be bad at close combat. i mean look at them; they're advanced, have mech suits and overall are pretty much the badass underdogs of the universe. I think it fits really well with ork upgrade.

Meson Gunz - 5pts per model (May only be taken by Ork boyz, lootas and tankbustas)

All ranged weapons count as twinlinked.

Poison guns work as normal
Any Special rules like FnP and steath work as normal

The idea behind this is that all ork gunz bring on the dakka (very ork like)...


Is the sarcasm sinking in...
sometimes it takes seeing it on the other side to realize what you've done...

Even if "Meson" grenades were available, as the OP defines them, I wouldn't use them. Those 5 points per model (an average of 60 pts. per FW squad, could be better spent on kroot, to bubblewrap your firing line, or on getting more crisis suits/markerlights/seeker missiles into your army, all of which give you a better army than those silly grenades.

Tau need to be bad at CC.

Let's just make them more crazy-strong shooters.

That's my impression of a GW employee working on the new Tau 'dex.

I think, rather, that it'd be better to make Kroot or other auxiliaries better at CC than to make Tau better at CC.

That's a good part of the reason why they have the auxiliaries anyway...

Now, give these Meson Grenades to Kroot and then we can talk. The idea of negating Disruption fields is a really good idea, much better than the usual anti power approach of granting an invul save.

@ Joe - sorry mate, i was just getting back at Cere at the "...are you serious comment?" I didn't feel that was very constructive, that's all

@ everyone else - Yes I think that tau are bad at CC, and they are. I just dont like them being so bad that after 1 assault from 5 marines they get so many losses by wounds they are always swept and wiped out. That's just some of my experience. I'd like it once or twice for the warriors to hold on and get a few back occasionally. Otherwise, yes I did hint that this was overpowered and it will take more thinking from GW to balance/fix this.

But not holding breath until im blue/grey in the face

Kroot ARE NOT bad at CC. Tau employ them for this reason. Use them.

Tau suck at close combat.That is the way it should be it's even written into the fluff.The grenades are a ridiculous idea. Why not just give them a flying av14 tank with a str 10 ap1 large blast weapon that dosn't scatter and be done with it.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Now, give these Meson Grenades to Kroot and then we can talk. The idea of negating Disruption fields is a really good idea, much better than the usual anti power approach of granting an invul save.

Since Kroot don't have armor, it wouldn't exactly help much...

I know I sound insane when saying this but... I find Tau codex being balanced and fun to play with. No reason to fix anything that isn't broken, right?

Tau are too OP in the ranged theatre anyway. Screw them. Let me outflank my striking scorpions in peace you 30" meanies. My best shootable troop choice can only shoot 18".

Tau are bad at CC. It's in the fluff, it's in the gameplay. They are a shooting army. This is just how it is.

It's the army's nature to rely on shooting m8. That is why we expect on some new Tau ally race like demiurg to deal with CC. Rather than giving The Tau some CC abilities..

Agreed. For a CC player like me, getting past tau firepower is one of the biggest problems when playing against Tau. If they were to be good at CC when being close to OP at ranged fire..... why would anyone else play any other army?? Tau is bad at cc for a reason, and that is due to them having a lot, and i mean a lot, of AP2 and up weapons that make armors useless. That's why most good Tau players i know place their units in the best position possible and give their important units plenty of meatshield. Plus, the Crisis suits can already move during assault after shooting at least 4 twin-linked Ap2 st 6 shots into my guys; if you are complaining about Tau being underpowered.... I'd say rethink your strategy.

Hey good idea, let's make fire warriors just good enough in cc so they have more chance of surviving the first round to keep the enemy locked in combat and thus unshootable! Or shall we just bring back consolidating into combat

I was thinking a while back about a stun grenade that caused a difficult terrain test, picking the lowest result when a unit tries to assault equipped fire warriors. The point being that we should suck in CC, but the Tau would come up with ways to delay that process as long as possible.
This would balance out the main problem I have, that so many armies are able to get a first/second turn charge and give us a possible extra turn shooting, but not alter the CC itself to favour Tau.
On that subject you could instead have some kind of stun grenade where the unit had to take a toughness test or be unable to assault.

So:
Flash mines:
As the enemy advances, the defenders throw clusters of small impact grenades designed to confuse and disorientate. While the attackers stumble around, the Tau soldiers are given an extra chance at firing on them.
Any unit which is declared to be assaulting a unit equipped with Flash Mines must take a difficult terrain test, picking the lowest result as their maximum charge distance. If the charge is succesful, there is no penalty to the assaulting units Initiative.

Or:
Sensory Overload Trigger (or something)
As the enemy advances, the defenders activate a shoulder mounted device that forces a supersonic shockwave towards them. While the Tau have built in shields to block that frequency, the enemy soldiers are subjected to a blast of energy designed to fracture and paralyze softer tissues, eg. the ear drums in humans. This can be debilitating and stop a close assault in it's tracks.
Any unit which is declared to be assaulting the unit equipped with this has to take a toughness test, if the test is failed the unit may not assault this turn, but may instead make a consolidation move (just to be a little fairer to the assault specialist stood in front of our guns )

Just some ideas, coz it's fun to write rules and stuffz.... let me know what you think!

They could give tau some form of stand and shoot, even if it is instead of CC attacks, to represent the tau firing at close quarters into the charging enemy..

Tau should suck at CC however they need to have a chance of standing.

1. Give them stubborn so that when they lose it is a straight 8 Ld test.
2. Give them defensive grenades for free so that they aren't auto dead in CC.
3. Possibly some rules to forfeit attach drones to escape CC. Agreed it is only once but once is better than never.

Make Tau shooty and more mobile so that they don't have to worry about CC in the first place. The only Tau units that needs to be better in CC is Kroot.

Does anyone know the WHFB rules that if a unit is charged, it can make a close range volley.


Spray and Pray.

When a Tau FW squad is charge, the squad may take a Ld test. If it is successful, the unit may fire any rapid fire weapons it has at the target unit. Note that if it uses this, then it may not attack in CC or use defensive this round, and if it fails its Ld test, it now takes all resultant Ld tests at -32 Ld, to represent their disarray.

lets give Kroot the different abilities they have in the Kroot Fandex. let them purchase stat upgrades(+1Str, +1T, 5+ armor) and allow the Shaper to take some sort of Power Weapon. and increase their Forest abilities to include all area terrain.

Tau themselves are fine. maybe give battlesuits +1BS for a 5 point increase.

Like targeters?

No, just have it built in to their stat line.

Wouldn't it make more sense, fluff-wise, to add another unit of auxiliaries, or maybe a better-armored Kroot varient with a higher point cost than to add a few rules here and nerf the rules many of the other armies rely on or are even built around?

For example, give the Kroot an option to wear even the equivalent of carapace armor? Or even add a new race to the codex, another small, maybe primitive race that favors CC over ranged? It isn't inconceivable based on their fluff that they'd have found another new race to bring to The Greater Good.

This game needs less grenades.

Gk have more grenades than any 2 armies put together.