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Made in us
Manhunter





Sticksville, Texas

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm absolutely stumped as to why anyone thinks Rivals will fix balance.

We've had Rivals since literal day 1. Every single warband that ever existed was packaged with a Rivals deck. It was even wrapped seperatly from the other cards. Thinking Rivals will fix balance means thinking all the stat cards are balanced and all the default decks are balanced and somehow all the imbalance randomly ended up in the generic cards.


It doesn't fix balance at all. Balance came from being able to remove the poor cards in your faction deck for universal cards. All it does is restrict season 1 and 2 warbands from ever seeing play since they didn't come with full 32 card faction decks.

GW now has the ball when it comes to trying to make faction decks worth playing, and while the Direchasm warbands have honestly been fairly good... the first two faction decks we see for the Harrowdeep warbands... are bad. Really bad. Almost as bad as the faction deck for Storm Of Celestus from the Two Player Starter.

We played a four player "Rivals" game yesterday... and the only ones who had fun were the Kainan and Wraithcreeper players.

The Storm Of Celestus and Blade Coven (myself) player... might as well have not participated due to how back the faction cards for both of those warbands are without using universals.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm absolutely stumped as to why anyone thinks Rivals will fix balance.

We've had Rivals since literal day 1. Every single warband that ever existed was packaged with a Rivals deck. It was even wrapped seperatly from the other cards. Thinking Rivals will fix balance means thinking all the stat cards are balanced and all the default decks are balanced and somehow all the imbalance randomly ended up in the generic cards.

Because GW said so, that means it must be true.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Did anyone say rivals fixes balance? Point me to that quote. In my post I said that a good rivals mode has the potential to help with obselesence and bloat. I understand that season 1 and 2 warbands can't be played right now but it would be easy for gw to put out a card pack that brings those old warbands up to date.
That said some users are saying that rivals is not well implemented here, which is fair enough.
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Sticksville, Texas

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm absolutely stumped as to why anyone thinks Rivals will fix balance.

We've had Rivals since literal day 1. Every single warband that ever existed was packaged with a Rivals deck. It was even wrapped seperatly from the other cards. Thinking Rivals will fix balance means thinking all the stat cards are balanced and all the default decks are balanced and somehow all the imbalance randomly ended up in the generic cards.


Courtesy of GW:

"It works like this: each player gets a pre-built deck, either by selecting the warband-specific cards for a particular warband or by picking one of the pre-built decks such as Silent Menace, which you can even combine with older warbands from the first few seasons of Warhammer Underworlds.* You won’t have to build a deck – and because both sides now have a deck of equal power, the game will be decided by skill rather than the size of your card collection."

According to GW, rivals fixes the balance issues as all faction decks are of equal power....... hahahahahahahahahahaha. Wyrmspat would like a word with the marketing department of GW. And the new warbands are a poor representation of "decks having equal power", when they get absolutely dunked on by Direchasm warbands.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




NH Gunsmith wrote:
The game never started as a "casual people will collect them" type game as you said, as it has been marketed as "The Ultimate Competitive Miniatures Game" from GW since day one. Even though a lot of AoS and Warcry players have picked up the boxes of minis to use as characters, there is/was a massively healthy Underworlds competitive player base (outside of the U.S.). The game has been embraced by people looking for a fairly solid competitive arena combat miniatures game, the type of game that has caught of since Deadzone, Aristeia, Godtear, ect, and Magic players due to the tactical positioning along with dice based combat and deck building mechanics.

The "competitive mini game" was part of it, but it was also aimed at the board game market - just look at the reviews of Shadespire and Nightvault on YouTube - lots of board game review channels covering it that don't normally cover GW stuff. It's also the reason for coloured plastic and push fit models. No hobby experience required if you're not interested in that side of things.

lord_blackfang wrote:I'm absolutely stumped as to why anyone thinks Rivals will fix balance.

We've had Rivals since literal day 1. Every single warband that ever existed was packaged with a Rivals deck. It was even wrapped seperatly from the other cards. Thinking Rivals will fix balance means thinking all the stat cards are balanced and all the default decks are balanced and somehow all the imbalance randomly ended up in the generic cards.


Outside of the starter boxes there were no pre-built decks for the season 1 and 2 warbands. Plus Rivals was never a supported format before, so balance never mattered. Yeah you could grab the Beastgrave and Direchasm decks and play a few games quickly out of the box, but that wasn't the intended way to play outside of learning games - no-one was promising balance. The decks just needed to be playable. Now it's an actual format, in theory more effort should be put in to balancing the decks. Especially if they're hoping to see this format played at events and tournaments. But Harrowdeep isn't promising in respect to that.

I do wonder if they're going to allow themselves to issue updates to Rivals decks. I don't see how it can possibly be an ongoing format if not. You release one over-powered faction deck and that's the only faction anyone ever plays with. But you can't exactly ban or restrict cards when there's no deckbuilding - the only easy options are banning an whole warband, or saying you can use the warband but only with the generic decks. The only other option, and the best one, is to release updated Rivals deck lists that have some universal cards swapped in.

I do wonder if this would have worked better like the old Starwars LCG or Marvel Champions - where you get half of each deck as a faction deck, and then you pair it with another set half deck made up of universal/GA cards, on different themes (aggro, control, etc). You could still package each warband with a playable deck, but you could split that deck in half and swap the universal half around with other warbands.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





If every faction deck was a bit more evenly balanced originally.
The older warbands could have like a list with the four cards you need to add to make their set ready for Rivals.
Either 4 that work for all - which would be tough - or just the 80 or however many extra cards from the box just had 4 that work really well for each warband.

What do we know about this Silent Menace deck they mention?
Do you just use that deck on its own? I can see that being possible
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

Danny76 wrote:
If every faction deck was a bit more evenly balanced originally.
The older warbands could have like a list with the four cards you need to add to make their set ready for Rivals.
Either 4 that work for all - which would be tough - or just the 80 or however many extra cards from the box just had 4 that work really well for each warband.

What do we know about this Silent Menace deck they mention?
Do you just use that deck on its own? I can see that being possible


Yeah, Silent Menace is already out. You just use that deck on its own, as you say.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/WHU-Direchasm-Silent-Menace-Deck-EN-2021
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






I'd be very surprised if relic is adopted for any sort of competition play, it's basically there to let folks who just started play at an even level.

I will say, I much preferred the vanguard format, as it limited the card pool, but kept deckbuilding. But, I'm only really going to play championship unless I'm introducing someone to the game.

I wouldn't mind trying out the silent menace deck with my Profiteers though in rivals, that could maybe work (if we ever do that). Everyone in my club who plays underworlds ordered harrowdeep, so we are just going to keep going with what we are doing lol.

My favourite format I've seen, which I'd love to try at an event is relic, but you can only use universals from the season your warband was released in. That'd be cool.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/22/take-your-warbands-out-of-harrowdeep-and-onto-the-battlefields-with-these-free-warscrolls/

AoS warscrolls for the two new warbands.

I actually like the Krule Boys, of course it's a classic WHU mixed weapon unit that's a pain to resolve, but the boss does interesting things.

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Blackpowder's Buccaneers








   
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Regular Dakkanaut




This warband is pure win.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

I wonder how they will compare to the previous Ogre Warband.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
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Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

That is an amazing Maneater,, plus we can have knife-monkey fights!

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Has anyone in the US had their Harrowdeep ship yet (from GW)?
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

LordAriakan wrote:
Has anyone in the US had their Harrowdeep ship yet (from GW)?

I literally just got a shipping notice on my copy of Octarius Book I from them. They're definitely backed up somewhere.
   
Made in es
Longtime Dakkanaut





Seeing the new pirate ogor, Do you think it will be much bigger than Hrothgorn ?
   
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Paramount Plague Censer Bearer





Texas

Now, if only the monkey had a gun...

Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood?

DC:70S+G++M+++B+I-Pat43/f+D++A(WTF)/eWD079R+++T(R)DM+ 
   
 
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