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Flash Gitz are Orks too! I maintain that every unit has a purpose that it fulfills better than anything else, and this has served me well so far.

Flash Gitz, or Shooty Nobz as I like to call them.
They're tough and to kill one you will require 16 Bolter rounds at BS3. So 8 Bolters within Rapid fire and assuming they're 12P thats 96P of shooting tied up for one 25 Point model. When divided by 6 Though thats 16P which is 9 Less than the Git meaning he's not durable enough for the points to take him down. Now I did say they're tough and reason is the Painboy essential to anyone taking Nobs or flash gitz. He now requires 32 Bolter rounds at BS 3. Which is 32P which is more than the cost of the Git meaning at the current rate they won't be gaining there points back. Now I know thats not the optimum weapon to shoot them with. But an AT weapon isn't Point effective also you'll need at least two and One AT equiped troops is often more points than the Git and two is almost always.

So where is there flaw in points, In close combat with Power weapons. Negating the FNP and the decent save, the only comfort is Cybork but PW's are cheap and a Git isn't, so avoid them like the Plague as are powerfist in any Number.

Ok the Git mentality, more Is better right? Well in the case of Gitz it's true If your taking them they need to be upgrades, More Dakka is essential as is Cybork and a Painboy anything beyond that is excess and not justified.

The Git mentality for Playing them.
Shooty Nobs, charge forwards blast your enemy charge them. You've got to pick your fight carefully though MSU units that are common in "Competitive" lists are the perfect Target. Which is Ironic a competitive thing being the perfect target for something widely viewed as un-competetive.

I recommend them for 1000P or less, not enough guns to wipe them out without having the consequences of the rest of your army. Now you may mind that hard to believe that something that needs to be 240P is best where points are scarce but I find that the case your opponent will Ignore them and pay the price and then try and gun them down and pay the price. A good general will avoid them and deal with your other Units before focusing on them, yet they must remain wary.

Playing with them requires skill tactics and forethought, they've got support capabilities like measuring before they shoot which can be a life saver allowing you to adjust to avoid your Boyz being charged or finding that your Rokkits can shoot at the bigger threat tank not the Rhino that's close.
You've got to be upfront with them charge them fowards bait units into being counter assaulted by Boyz and so on. They're one of the most durable units so don't worry and If they all die either they've not shot at anything else or you've got an opponent who's got a list to deal with Multi-wound tough things.

Now I think I've covered them being tough, but can they dish out pain?
With good AP they can vapourise Terminators and gain there points instantly. Ideally they're who you want to face. More likely since this is low pointed games you'll have to target their command squad which is often a very costly unit.
They're perfect headhunters and used properly your main beatstick.


I love them and I will agree If you want full on competitive or you've got a Mech list then don't take them.
But I'll leave you with a thought.
If the current Meta is tanks and everyone is going for AT. Would'nt it make sense to run a Horde and run something for eating MSU's after you've shelled them out of the Tank?

Anyway hope this has changed a couple of minds. I would add more but I'm writing this from a phone, tricky buisness

Thanks for reading my thought/ramblings

Cool, thank you. I'll give this a try in a couple weeks, just need to forge some flash gitz first, .

Proxy a couple get a feel for them, trust me when I say that using them at the Start of ths Shooting phase with their Gitfindas is Invaluable you can easily work out where to go and the best course of action.

But they're very fun and always enjoyable especially if you get a good run with the AP rolls.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/399816.page

Helpful stuff here.

I posted in that thread once or twice. :thunbsup:

Lootaz do the job better and are cheaper

I think InquisiotrVaron wasn't aiming at telling you to use Flash Gits, but rather how to use them if you do field them. At which he has done a pretty good job, IMO.

Funnyguy2112 wrote:Lootaz do the job better and are cheaper

Well no, what do you target with the Gitz, MSU's and HI/Retinues and IC's. The Lootas target Vehicles.

Let's now think also In volume of Firepower in relation to points, Loota 15P Flash Git 30P give or take, so 2 Lootas for one Git.

Roll on the D3 chart and you get 1 Shot, the Flash Gitz will be able to keep up against the Lootas volume of fire. Now the Gitz AP. Let's say we target an MEQ and I roll good on my AP and get a 3. Your equivalent is getting 2 Shots. Now using matherhammer your going to lose in the kill count for the MEQ's and then you won't be assaulting and eating up the scraps. So Lootas are effectively worse at what the Gitz do.

The above Mathhammer was between 20 Lootas and 10 Gitz.

And I won't even need to start with Termies I've got the same chance of getting a one of two as you do a 3. I will out perform in that field with the same Numbers as above.

Now I agree Lootas will eat Tanks, but saying Lootas do the same Job but are better and cheaper isn't a valid statement since we take then for very different reasons, and the Gitz win against the Lootas in the Gitz attacking selection, IE Termies Retinue and MEQ's.

Don't need to start about durability since the Gitz win that without Terrain and It's about even with Terrain.

Anyway a more correct statement would be Flash Gitz are the best Ork alternative for killing all I've listed. Even better than Nobz since If they're particularly nasty you can shoot to kill and avoid that assault whereas the Nobz cannot. Anyway thanks Jidmah

The gitz you are advising are 35 points a piece, not including the doc. Meaning that 10 gitz can actually get you 25 lootaz.

Your math is also beyond flawed. When shooting MEQ, the chance of ignoring their armor is 50%, lootaz have a 66% chance of rolling 2 or more shots. Lootaz can also fire from twice the range than gitz and wound on 2+ rather than 3+. Resulting in 1 or 3 dead MEQ on average for the gitz and four to five dead MEQ for lootaz. Even with a good AP roll, gitz lose to lootaz here.

Basically the same for Terminators, 66% chance for no dead terminators, 33% chance for two dead terminators, loootaz kill 2 or more terminators on average.

Gitz can't even compete against lootaz in the field where they are supposed to be good in, that's why no one takes them.

Yea, but when you do roll a nice AP roll on them Gits, and your shooting at a really tough target, terminators or HQ squad, then they are totally worth it. Its when they work well to good is when you really are glad you took them. Thats why I want to play a FlashGits army, the more gits there are, the better my chances are of making them do bad things to my enemy.

But in saying that you just cant compare the volume of firepower that Lootas pump out. Thats why my FlashGits army will have 3 mobs of Gits, all qith painboy/more dakka/shootier and 3 units of lootas and then shoota boyz like a mofo. Might even take SAG meks for the HQ just to round out the insanity

I really wonder why so few people pick blastas. After all, the reason everone picks Flash Gits is to shoot marines and terminators with them. "Get's hot!" isn't really a problem on a model with 4+ armor and FNP. If you don't plan on shooting AV12 anywayz, it should be better than +1S any day.

InquisitorVaron, your premise is that every unit has a purpose that it fulfills better than anything else.

Alright, so we're talking about efficiency then.

What do Flash Gits do better than anything else? You mentioned that Gitz are for MSUs, HQs, Retinues, ICs....basically space marines. Lootas are for vehicles. I won't disagree with your assessment of that, but we're talking about efficiency here.

Compare equal points worth of Flash Gits to equal points worth of....ork boyz. Slugga/choppa variant, and shoota variant. The math works out in favor of the boyz, not the Flash Gitz.

What do you propose Flash Gitz can do that something else in the army can't do better?

Dashofpepper wrote:InquisitorVaron, your premise is that every unit has a purpose that it fulfills better than anything else.

Alright, so we're talking about efficiency then.

What do Flash Gits do better than anything else? You mentioned that Gitz are for MSUs, HQs, Retinues, ICs....basically space marines. Lootas are for vehicles. I won't disagree with your assessment of that, but we're talking about efficiency here.

Compare equal points worth of Flash Gits to equal points worth of....ork boyz. Slugga/choppa variant, and shoota variant. The math works out in favor of the boyz, not the Flash Gitz.

What do you propose Flash Gitz can do that something else in the army can't do better?

Basically, this. No one ever says a unit is absolutely worthless, because it's never true, unless they have 0 in every stat. However, there are units that do the same things better for less points, which make the other units, though still functional, not as much of a viable option. Long story short, you can play any unit, but some units are just better than others at doing the same thing.

InquisitorVaron wrote:
They're tough and to kill one you will require 16 Bolter rounds at BS3. So 8 Bolters within Rapid fire and assuming they're 12P thats 96P of shooting tied up for one 25 Point model. When divided by 6 Though thats 16P which is 9 Less than the Git meaning he's not durable enough for the points to take him down. Now I did say they're tough and reason is the Painboy essential to anyone taking Nobs or flash gitz. He now requires 32 Bolter rounds at BS 3. Which is 32P which is more than the cost of the Git meaning at the current rate they won't be gaining there points back. Now I know thats not the optimum weapon to shoot them with. But an AT weapon isn't Point effective also you'll need at least two and One AT equiped troops is often more points than the Git and two is almost always.

You'll need to go over your math because most bolters will be shooting at you with BS4.

KingCracker wrote:Yea, but when you do roll a nice AP roll on them Gits, and your shooting at a really tough target, terminators or HQ squad, then they are totally worth it. Its when they work well to good is when you really are glad you took them. Thats why I want to play a FlashGits army, the more gits there are, the better my chances are of making them do bad things to my enemy.

But in saying that you just cant compare the volume of firepower that Lootas pump out. Thats why my FlashGits army will have 3 mobs of Gits, all qith painboy/more dakka/shootier and 3 units of lootas and then shoota boyz like a mofo. Might even take SAG meks for the HQ just to round out the insanity

I'm pretty new at mathhammer, so please tell me if you find any problems in my calcs.

but 3 Squads of shootas + 3 squads of tankbustas would be a better purchase for anti Meq than 3 squads of Gitz and 3 squads of lootas.

On avg, in a perfect world, assuming line of sight and range not an issue:

45 Tank bustas will kill avg 12.5 Meqs per turn. 675 points
90 Shootas would kill 9.99. ~600 points
Total 22.49

45 Lootas (assuming 2 shots ) would kill 8.33 675 points
30 gitz (no badrukk, painboy,and all upgrades ) 11.66 ~1200 points

Total 19.99


I know my points are give and take 50 or so (no codex right now). But that is ~600points to kill and extra 2 guys per round on avg, thats alot of points to kill 2 Meqs. Granted in the later rounds of the game the gitz are more likely to not be dead, but throw the bustas in a battlewagon with the extra points and it is already a better purchase.

Basically the tank bustas AP3 if worth more than the totally random AP of the gitz in the long run. If the 3 squads of Gitz were assault 3 and 400 points less, then they would be worth it imo. Sure you could get lucky and roll ap 1 2 3 every round on the gitz, and 5/6's for the lootas, but that's all it is, pure luck.

You math seems to be correct (I can't tell how you got the 11.66 for the gitz though), however your assumptions are not.

- Tank bustas will almost definitely include a PK and two tankhammers, reducing the number of rokkits.
- Shootatz will include a PK, reducing the number of shots.
- Usually tankbustas are not going to be shooting MEQ, due to glory hog rule
- Lootaz are 48" range, twice as far as any other weapon in question.
- Lootaz are not supposed to shoot MEQ. In fact, it's the worst target for them. Even so, due to range and number of shots, they are better against every single other target, including vehicles.
- Tank bustas are elite, flash gits are heavy support. Nothing prevents you from fielding both.
- The enemy army does not consists of MEQs only.

So, while your math is correct, it doesn't tell us anything. Your tank bustas will most likely be forced to shoot vehicles as often as those flash gits are getting a crappy AP roll. Mobs of 30 boyz are in general not a good idea due to maneuverability. You can't mathhammer any of this.

The argument was that lootaz are still better at shooting MEQ/TEQ than flash gits are, even though they are terrible at doing this.

Hey jidmah thanks for reply, all good points you make. Yes I am doing it in a bubble for sure, I did in fact forget about about glory hog, but in this "vacuum" experiment just assume the only thing on the table are 10 gitz and 10 meqs. I can't predict what any player will do with them, but I can measure them against a standard.

And don't get me wrong,the only reason I am honestly doing this is because I would love to find a reason to actually field the gitz. Like so many others, I really like their story and theme. I loved them in DoW, and I would like to paint them. The truth is, I just can't find a reason to buy a single one. Hopefully something can change my mind.

The way I came up with 11.66 was my calculating the wounds suffered on avg at each AP 1-6 that the gitzs could roll WITH the Blasta upgrade, then taking the avg of the sum. I did the same for no blasta, no shootie, etc.

27 Gitz 54 shots w Dakka,Shootie,Blasta
Wounds suffered by meq in a full round of shooting
Ap1 14.999994
Ap2 14.999994
Ap3 14.999994
Ap4 14.999994
Ap5 4.999948
Ap6 4.999948
SUM(AVG()) = 11.3


27 Gitz 54 shots w Dakka,Shootie, but no Blasta
Ap1 14.999994
Ap2 14.999994
Ap3 14.999994
Ap4 4.999948
Ap5 4.999948
Ap6 4.999948
SUM(AVG()) = 9.99

27 Gitz 54 shots w Dakka, NO shootie, Blasta
Ap1 11.99988
Ap2 11.99988
Ap3 11.99988
Ap4 11.99988
Ap5 3.99992
Ap6 3.99992
=9.33
27 Gitz 27 shots NO dakka,Shootie,Blasta

Ap1 7.499997
Ap2 7.499997
Ap3 7.499997
Ap4 7.499997
Ap5 2.499974
Ap6 2.499974
=5.83

27 Gitz 54 shots Dakka,No Shootie,No Blasta

Ap1 11.99988
Ap2 11.99988
Ap3 11.99988
Ap4 3.99992
Ap5 3.99992
Ap6 3.99992
7.99

Conclusion, dakka is by far the best upgrade, with shootie being slightly better than blasta vs Meq. It's also easy to see that if they were assault 3 , they would potentially be a great unit.
I will run the numbers vs Teq today and see what that looks like.

I can't remember his Str atm, but Badrukk is basically worth .83 kills(assuming str6) added to the end number since all his shots are AP2.

I see, that number makes sense then. Also nice to know that shootier is better than blastas, I think I didn't see that math done before.

Braduk would be S7, but doesn't really matter against T4. He does come with 3 ammo runts though, increasing his wound output a little. As a rule of thumb, he is interchangeable with three flash gits.

As said across this thread, flash gits aren't exactly a great choice at all. The are good at adding even more dakka to a footslogging army with all other slots maxed out already, but beyond that they won't win you any tournaments.

One thing that seems critical for the Mathhammer: You should be concerned the MEQs might have a cover save. It really hurts the Tankbustas and Gitz.

Flash gits are to orks as shining spears are to eldar: an expensive unit idea that was only good on paper that doesn't perform well. But at least shining spears have a model.

MrEconomics wrote:One thing that seems critical for the Mathhammer: You should be concerned the MEQs might have a cover save. It really hurts the Tankbustas and Gitz.

That would shift the odds slightly towards gitz, but not by a great margin.

Using Grots' numbers, Flash gits would kill 6.66 a turn and tank bustas 6.25. Either way lootaz+shootas will still be superior.

CuddlySquig wrote:Flash gits are to orks as shining spears are to eldar: an expensive unit idea that was only good on paper that doesn't perform well. But at least shining spears have a model.

More like dark reapers. Besides, flash gits do have model, and even a bit pack for their upgrades.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod650001a
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440269a&prodId=prod1920003

That $25 per model however, so I'll rather buy some awesome forgeworld super-heavy than a unit of Flash Gitz.

OK, so I did find something interesting Vs TEQ with the Gitz. I'm definitely open to critiques of the idea math etc.

For this idea I will use 1 squad of 10 Gitz, all upgrades,no painboy, and add Badrukk in. As everyone seems to agree, 10 gitz vs Meq is an utter waste of points. However, look closely at what happens with Teq below. I am only going to show one model to keep it simple:

10 Gitz 20 shots dakka,Shootie,Blasta Upgrade, no Painboy VS TEQ


Ap1 4.999998
Ap2 4.999998
Ap3 4.999998
Ap4 0.832999667
Ap5 0.832999667
Ap6 0.832999667

Avg= 2.916
Take Avg and add Badrukk : 2.916 +.83= 3.74

Well killing avg 3.74 termies with one unit of shooting is not bad at all. But thats not the secret sauce.

The secret sauce is that if you think about it, The gitz + badrukk targetting Teq have 2 outcomes:
50% chance that 1.6 will suffer a wound-meh
50% chance that ~ 6 wounds will be suffered-

6 Teq wounds from one unit shooting is something worth getting excited about as an ork. Throw the Gitz+ badrukk in a BW with a KFF Mech+BP+KMB and you have a pretty killy unit for ~800 points. It's a very specific role and still not cheap, but is possibly a pallie killer too-AP2 ignores FNP right?


Something like this:
HQ1 KFF Mek/Bp/KMB
HQ2 Ghaz/Warboss

Troop1 Manz/Bwagon dedicated
Troop 2 boyz
troop 3 boyz
Troop 4 Boyz

Elite 1 Lootas
Elite 2 Lootas
Elite 3 Nobs/Bwagon dedicated

Heavy 1 Gitz + badrukk
Heavy 2 BW
Heavy 3 BW

Remember that if the units are performing alonoast as well a huge psycological boost would to play the models you enjoy watching/building or that fits your playing style.

I se way to many warhammer players loosing faith after a bad round with bad dice. Some superstition about your models will help you keep the faith.

Niiai wrote:Remember that if the units are performing alonoast as well a huge psycological boost would to play the models you enjoy watching/building or that fits your playing style.

I se way to many warhammer players loosing faith after a bad round with bad dice. Some superstition about your models will help you keep the faith.

Especially with Orks. That's why the red ones go faster.

I have always wanted to play flashgitz as well as model them.

Unfortunatly, I don't know a good to way to run them...such as sqaud size, footflogging or in a wagon.

Maybe next game I will try em out. Make a fun list with the the ork triforce(zagstruck, snikrot, badrukk)

Grots R OP wrote:OK, so I did find something interesting Vs TEQ with the Gitz. I'm definitely open to critiques of the idea math etc.

For this idea I will use 1 squad of 10 Gitz, all upgrades,no painboy, and add Badrukk in. As everyone seems to agree, 10 gitz vs Meq is an utter waste of points. However, look closely at what happens with Teq below. I am only going to show one model to keep it simple:

10 Gitz 20 shots dakka,Shootie,Blasta Upgrade, no Painboy VS TEQ


Ap1 4.999998
Ap2 4.999998
Ap3 4.999998
Ap4 0.832999667
Ap5 0.832999667
Ap6 0.832999667

Avg= 2.916
Take Avg and add Badrukk : 2.916 +.83= 3.74

Do these numbers take into account an invul save?

Wounding terminators with 20 shots BS2 S6 AP2/1 vs T4/5++ should be:

20 * (2/6) * (5/6) * (4/6) = 3.70

AP3 or more vs 2+

20 * (2/6) * (5/6) * (1/6) = 0.96

AVG 2.31

Badruk, assuming you use all ammo runts when shooting at terminators (when else?):
(3 * (2/6)) + (3 * (4/6)) * 2/6 = 1.67 hits
1.67 * (5/6) * (4/6) = 0.93

-> 50% chance of killing 4.63
-> 50% chance of killing 1.89

For the same amount of points you can get 35 lootaz, who would kill
70 * (2/6) * (5/6) * (1/6) = 6.48

or 9 Kanz with KMB or 9 zzap gunz, who kill
9 * (3/6) * (5/6) * (4/6) = 2.5

Just for comparison, three Dakka-Battlewagons(4x bs + kannon) would kill about 2.08, assuming all big shootaz have LoS, and no kannon misses entirely.

So, in terms of point efficiency, on average flash gits are worse at killing terminators than the next best heavy support units, while they lose out to lootaz even if they are rolling great.

Anyways, dedicated TEQ-killers are kind of useless for orks, as boyz are already great at taking them down, except for maybe paladins. Against paladins, kanz would be the best choice, due to reliable instant-death.

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Not this thread again!

I still can't help but post.

Flashgits are good yes. However, they do not have a very good points cost to strength ratio. A SW could buy 3 Long Fangs packs with x5 Fangs w/ ML and the squad leader. The fangs are not only tougher, longer ranged, but they shoot better, and are better in combat if they get charged and can shoot at multiple targets. So, it's better to focus on the units in the codex that are not as good, but have a better strength to points ratio, and take more of them.

Yeah, I think I am going to find the Lochness Monster before I can find a reason to field gitz.