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I really want to field a DKoK army, purely for the hilariousness of their everything as well as the awesomeness behind the lore. I have the IA codex supplement, but the people I want to play with don't want to let me use them as it's not a "real" codex. I was wondering if there was any community consensus or thoughts on the true legality of the DKoK? Are they fielded in tournaments, or purely a hypothetical army...

I did some searching around Dakka and the internet large, but I couldn't really find a definite answer. Are these kids right in not letting me use the codex, or should I tell them to stuff it?

Normally people don't allow forge world rules at tournements.

But there should be no problem with it in friendly games, but that's just my opinion.

People who don't allow forge world rules either don't have forge world models or are seriously unreasonable or misinformed.

I have got a forge world nurgle daemon prince and i try to use him but they keep on refusing so i know what its like.

@Lord Solar Awesome - Well, that's good to know. I would plan on playing the army at my local hobby shop and possibly enter it in tournies so maybe it's not worth the argument...

@crudcakes - I agree. Looking through the IA codex, it doesn't seem to be an over powered army at all(It actually seems sort of suicidal, but I guess that's the point). I would imagine the forge world guys would take a lot of care for balance issues and the likes, so I wouldn't think using the Nurgle daemon would be a huge deal if people would take the time to look him over first.

DigChamp wrote:... but the people I want to play with don't want to let me use them as it's not a "real" codex.

In which case, they're not 'legal' if you want to play with that group.

You won't find a definite answer because there isn't one. There is no list of 'legal' lists or codexes that everyone is allowed to use in games. Tournaments will sometimes have such a list that applies to that specific event, but for friendly play it's entirely down to what that particular group of gamers chooses to allow.

DigChamp wrote:I would imagine the forge world guys would take a lot of care for balance issues and the likes...

lol

in standard tournies they list allowable codices, most the time IA are not allowed. In friendly games ask your opponent, same as always.

Why not build your DKoK using the IG codex. No one can complain about that as they are still GW models, not GW citadel but still GW

I would say SOBs aren't legal because they are a WD codex instead of a proper one. Same goes for FW. I would still let you use them though.

I mean, SOBs get a codex and 2 copies of WD for £9. Any other army would pay £29 for that.

insaniak wrote:

DigChamp wrote:... but the people I want to play with don't want to let me use them as it's not a "real" codex.

In which case, they're not 'legal' if you want to play with that group.

You won't find a definite answer because there isn't one. There is no list of 'legal' lists or codexes that everyone is allowed to use in games. Tournaments will sometimes have such a list that applies to that specific event, but for friendly play it's entirely down to what that particular group of gamers chooses to allow.

This. Armies are only as "legal" as your opponents will allow.

Fine, the only armies I allow are IG forces of only infantry and conscript squads. Sound right to you? No. If it has rules made by GW I'll play it.

Deadshot wrote:Fine, the only armies I allow are IG forces of only infantry and conscript squads. Sound right to you?

That's certainly your choice. It may limit how many games you get in, but you're perfectly within your rights to only play using those lists that you want to play against in a non-organised game.

If it has rules made by GW I'll play it.

Which is also fine. Some codexes are going to need some tweaking to be compatible with current rules, though.

That's the thing, GW don't tell us which codexes are considered usable or not. They simply leave it up to players to decide what they want to play.

Tourney, no-go. Friendly, if opponent agrees.

Byte wrote:Tourney, no-go.

Which tournie?

There is no blanket set of tournament rules that covers every tournament. Some allow FW rules, some don't.

"Are these kids right in not letting me use the codex, or should I tell them to stuff it?"
-DigChamp

There is no official rule on the "legality" of IA codices. But as a rule of thumb, most tournaments won't allow Imperial Armor units. I'd strongly recommend contacting the tournament organizer ahead of time to find out their policy on such things.

As for "these kids", whoever they are, they're perfectly within their rights not to let you use the codex. There is no official rule you can point to that says "these codices are legal and these aren't". Keep in mind, however, that you're perfectly within your rights to choose not to play with these kids, either.

Hope this helps!
-GK

Deadshot wrote:I would say SOBs aren't legal because they are a WD codex instead of a proper one. Same goes for FW. I would still let you use them though.

I mean, SOBs get a codex and 2 copies of WD for £9. Any other army would pay £29 for that.

I feel the White Dwarf updates are official, I had always assumed they were. Anyone know?

I had thought they werent until the new plastic Fire Prism, that comes with the Night Spinner option, which was a WD update

It has varied over the years. For a while they just presented rules for use. Then they went to a system of stating whether WD rules were 'official' or required opponent's consent. I don't recall the Sisters or Blood Angels articles saying anything either way, which suggests that they're back to just assuming that people will use them.

WD 379 p90 in the box on the left, "This official Codex for the Sisters of Battle,. . . " So it is "official" as far as things go.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:WD 379 p90 in the box on the left, "This official Codex for the Sisters of Battle,. . . " So it is "official" as far as things go.

I'm surprised it's not on the GW website yet personally. I had given it 30-60 days to maximize WD sales but ... C'mon slackers <,<

I don't want any arguments or bad blood or anything, so I'll just use the IG rules. Thanks for the replies.

@Giantkiller; Cheexsta; insaniak - If my friends don't want me to play them, I'm not going to argue I guess. I've never had this kind of issue before, but you guys are right.

@Fearspect - I'm going to take that as I'm wrong haha

Deadshot wrote:Fine, the only armies I allow are IG forces of only infantry and conscript squads. Sound right to you? No. If it has rules made by GW I'll play it.

So, you're saying that a person has no right to refuse a game?

I'd say that it's certainly your right to play the game or not. As Insaniak said, it would greatly limit your potential pool of players, but the option is there.

Well this certainly got heated, i guess what should be said is that someone can refuse the use of forge world stuff but they should be good sports and try to allow it more often.

I'd just bring both, ask your opponent whether he (or she)'ll play against IA. If he does that's cool, if he doesn't you whip out C:IG.

That too if he doesn't mind using codex imperial guard.

TiB wrote:I'd just bring both, ask your opponent whether he (or she)'ll play against IA. If he does that's cool, if he doesn't you whip out C:IG.

That's what I'd do, too. It's a fair compromise.

if we only played codexes that were determined to be playable....then people wouldnt play chaos nids or crons.

but as mentioned as long as you give your opponent fair warning and acsess to your rules (IA book or whatever) then i dont think most would have issue with it. only problem might be at tourneys.

If your opponent has went out of their way to get DKoK or Armeggedon Steel legion, and spent money and time obtaining the rules, the least you could do is let them use it.

insaniak wrote:

Byte wrote:Tourney, no-go.

Which tournie?

There is no blanket set of tournament rules that covers every tournament. Some allow FW rules, some don't.

OK, most don't allow. 'Ard Boys and RTTs normally do not. My response was to definitive indeed. However, I submit it's correct 95 percent of the time.

In the group of guys I play with we are open to all IA/FW rules and models. The only condition is that you have the official FW model (no proxies unless it's an awesome scratch build) and own the IA book. Our philosophy is that if you have gone to the expense of buying these go ahead. The models are always beautiful and only add to the enjoyment of all involved.

Personally I have more issues playing against some of the cheesy GK armies than anything I have seen in IA

If there is this many people contradicting each other on a single thread, don't use them. I know they look cool and everything but why debate over it, I just don't really understand.