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All right lads i need some help taking down the bastard off spring(grey knights) of whats his name.

I run Chaos Space marines and Guard.

Help

I've found with IG I have the ability to outshoot my opponent and Hide behind a couple AV14 Bodies.

With CSM I'm not too too sure though, what are you generaly bringing to play against GK and what's going wrong?

Your stuff
Opponents stuff
Tactics used
Etc

My army is almost all khorne.

The usual list comprises of -

HQ - Khorne Lord w Daemon Feeder
- Abadon

Elites - 3 Assault Termies (mok,lc)

Troops - 4x 8 khorne Beserkers AC with PF

Heavy support - 2x Oblits
- Landraider
- Defiler w 2 ccw

Why type of Gk lists are you typically facing?

He was running (dont know grey knights upgrades too well)

HQ
Stern
Chaplain

Elites
2 x 5 Termies

Troops
grey knight paladins

Heavy support
Dread knight
2x land raider

I hope that sounds about right

I think your main problem is you have no idea how Grey Knights operate. The codex doesn't even have chaplains. Paladins are the 2W Elite Terminators that are only troops choices with Kaldor Draigo. Regular terminators are troops though. You will probably want to read the codex once or twice and get a better idea of what you're facing.

You are running a bad list that plays right into his strengths. My guess is that you are losing because you are walking across the board to try and assault him, while he just kites and shoots you due to your lack of transports. When you finally get into CC, force weapons trump berserkers. Your list's sole goal appears to be melee, and this is not something your codex is much good at. You have none of the melta you need to open up his raiders, and no way to handle superior CC units. Your best option is to run a fundamentally different list, because as it stands, his guns are far better than yours and the force weapons rack up casualties too fast for you to have a hope in melee with just berserkers.

Astartes-based Codex:GK lists are defined primarily by their incredible volume of 24" Assault weaponry and the presence of force weapons. The best of the Astartes still die like any other marine, though. You need to be denying armor saves and either outshooting them or tarpitting them in seas of disposable units. Khornate Traitors don't do any of those. The CSM codex's best options against GKs are the same as their best options against most other lists, Lash Princes, Obliterators, and MSU CSM in Rhinos to get armour and melta saturation. Plague Marines, while usually great, are somewhat less so against armywide force weapons, but you do force him to assault to reliably remove plague marines. Peel him out of his raiders and hunker down and shoot him at range with lascannon and plasma. Other MEQs cannot beat Grey Knights in melee point for point. Even if you significantly improve your list, Chaos Marines are still an outdated codex with uncompetitive point pricing, so this will never be much more than a marginal matchup for you.

Dam i hope they fix that when they release the new codex.

Ok so i have re worked a list as follows -

HQ
Daemon Prince (MoS, W, LoS) 155
Daemon Prince (MoS, W, LoS) 155

Elites
Chosen x5 (meltax5) 140
Chosen x5 (meltax5) 140
Chosen x5 (meltax5) 140

Troops
CSMx10 (meltax2, rhino,DP) 225
CSMx10 (meltax2, rhino,DP) 225
Plaque Marinesx5 (meltax2, rhino,DP) 190
Plaque Marinesx5 (meltax2, rhino,DP) 190

Heavy Support
Obliterators x2 150
Obliterators x2 150
Obliterators x2 150

Total - 2010

Thats 23 meltas, 6 lascannons (counting oblits)

I take it i use the prince's to lash the knights into melta range or difficult/dangerous terrain but otherwise is that sorta what you ment?

Aggressive use of meltas definitely help against grey knights, I find when I play GK, I have the hardest time against Vulcan/Salamander armies. You could squeeze those 6 oblits into 2 squads and throw in a vindicator to get that big blast marker to lash them into.

GK also bring something called 'reinforced aegis' to the table which is going to limit the effectiveness of your Daemon Princes' lash.

Oh what they can affect your lash i thought it was just your stat increase in codex daemons.

With the list i put up what does 2000 pts of GK look like?

i don't like the chosen without rhinos, yes i know they can infiltrate. but its pretty darn easy to pick them off first turn. also take off demonic possession from the rhinos, at twenty points a piece thats expensive(and your over points as is ) give icons of chaos glory to your CSM so they dont act like little girls. against GK (if thats what your making this list for as it seems) DP prolly are not the way to go. as much as i love them, the games ive played against GK (admitedly few cause they came out slightly before deployment) they eat my DP and giggle. you can hide lash sorc in your rhinos. with that many points open you could give your thre eunits of chosen rhinos, get those banners, and just for the LOLs throw a twin linked bolter on a rhino. (or an icon for deep striking oblits) that increases you from 4 rhinos to 7, while not having DP i cant see them stunning ALL of them without having some suspicious dice.

Great ill give that a go and see what happens

If not sus dice it is

Where are you atm Gan?

The lash loses an edge when you face GK. Think about a Dread in close proximity to a unit to be misled by the lash. The Sorcerer or DP gets a malus of -4 on the ld test.

Grey Knights don't generally run Dreadnoughts that will be moving with the army, as their primary role is fire support. Shorter range loadouts of Dreadnought don't do much that hammers and psycannons don't, aside from destroying low strength enemy assault units or bringing a mobile multi-melta. If nothing else, having Lash in your list will force them to keep their units within 12" of a slow Dreadnought that doesn't want to be close to you and exposes that Dread to shorter ranged fire or even being tarpitted by chumps. If the Dreads don't advance with the army, it becomes a nonissue.

The Aegis also doesn't increase the risk associated with using powers, just reduces the chance of success, so Reinforced Aegis in of itself is not a reason to not cast Lash if you would have no other power to cast on your turn. It's not as good as it is against armies without psychic defense, but its very presence can affect your opponent's behaviour.

OH ok i can see what you mean now and even more so about ranged Dreadies with your ones with the big guns greyhampster. Are they just regular TL autocannons or do GK get Psy rounds or something either way they look like they could give tau a run for their money.

Another question to do with Daemons of khorne with the grey knights having deniability on buffs for your units how does that work with Blessings of the Blood God with its 2+ inv against Psychic powers or Force weapons. Do they still get that when facing GK?

Normal dreads can have the Rifleman loadout, the standard 2X TL Autocannon.

GK get the Psyfleman, which has the same loadout, but has Psybolt Ammo, which increases the strength of BP, Bolter, SB, HB, Assault cannon and autocannons by 1. So the psyfleman can actually ID SM and Nob toughness models.




Blessing of the Blood God sounds good. remember that Libbies with Dark Excommunication and Dreadknights(which have it standard), can remove Daemonic Giftas using that.


I would avoid Possessed Vehicles, Oblits, Posessed marines and DP, as well as summoned Daemons. they are all Daemons. Nuff' said...

Psyflemen sounds pretty tough must do hell on the battle field.

Is Dark Excommunication a casting spell or an auto thing that is always on?

Psychic Power. Dreadknights have it standard, though Libbies need to buy it. It isn't expensive, but still.


Well, Riflemen are good for anti light vehicle and GEQ multiwound characters such as Autarchs and Lord Commissars. Psyflemen can easily ID a full Nobs Mob in a turn or 2, and can easily kill off a lone MEQ character, even with his armour save.

So maybe i should get some knights now the hype is on necrons

Pssh dont go over to knights. they are crazy good but not unbeatable. besides you dont want to make khorne mad

and no im in the Navy so im floating all over the place haha

Sorry didn't have my 2+ save against them. God damn nights! KILL!! MAIM!!! BURN!!!


Oh sweet can you take ur miniatures?

yeah i could have, and should have, didnt realize how much time i would have had to work on them...coulda got like 4k done by now.

Thats the way it is hey.

Do you make port anywhere that might sell or hopefully if your out in the gulf a shipping freighter containing new necrons needs saving