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So I was looking at the Long Fang pack for Space Wolves, and I came across something interesting.

The long fang upgrade options say: "Each Long Fang apart from the Squad Leader must replace his bolt pistol with one of the following:"

I just stumbled upon this when I was reading.

This means the writers of the codex meant for the squad leader to be a long fang and not just a squad leader.

so without the "apart from the Squad Leader" caveat you could give the Squad Leader a heavy weapon, hypothetically speaking.

Is this a correct assumption? Do others read this the same way?

If so this has widespread implications on other units and their upgrades.

Thoughts?

No, because the options available to a squad leader is listed above that bullet. And it doesn't say the squad leader can take any heavy weapons. Plus if he does take a heavy weapon he cant shoot it and allow split fire.

Maybe you are not understanding what I am getting at.

Then why include the: "apart from the Squad Leader" caveat?

I would presume it's to be absolutely unambiguous that he doesn't have to take one, as the condition is mandatory for long fangs.

GreyHamster wrote:I would presume it's to be absolutely unambiguous that he doesn't have to take one, as the condition is mandatory for long fangs.

Right, because of the wording the Squad Leader can not take a heavy weapon.

What I am trying to get at is:

Since it says "Each Long Fang apart from the Squad Leader must replace his bolt pistol with one of the following:" They are saying that the Squad Leader is in fact a Long Fang, and would have to take a heavy weapon if it weren't for the clause "apart from the Squad Leader".

This has implications for many different squads and the upgrades they are allowed to take.

It would, if almost every codex didn't list sarg options seperately

That is the whole point.

The Long Fangs List the Squad Leader options separately as well, yet they give us this gem specifically excluding the Squad Leader from the "must replace his bolt pistol" clause.

The Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

Of course he's a Long Fang. That's what the big bold words say above his unit description.

He's just not one that can take a heavy weapon.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

The only squad in the whole SW book with any sort of squad leader in it is the long fang squad. What other implications could this have at all?

As far as i can tell they only say that so you know for sure that you cannot give the squad leader a heavy weapon.

DarknessEternal wrote:Of course he's a Long Fang. That's what the big bold words say above his unit description.

He's just not one that can take a heavy weapon.

^ I agree :3

The only Sgts type in any SM army that can be equipt like his troops are:
the Scout Sgt who CAN take a sniper rifle. (Any Model may...)
and the Vanguard Vet Sgt.... (Same wording)

DarknessEternal wrote:Of course he's a Long Fang. That's what the big bold words say above his unit description.

He's just not one that can take a heavy weapon.

jcd386 wrote:I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

The only squad in the whole SW book with any sort of squad leader in it is the long fang squad. What other implications could this have at all?

As far as i can tell they only say that so you know for sure that you cannot give the squad leader a heavy weapon.

This is what I am getting at:

Since the Squad Leader has a specific exception about trading in his bolt pistol, he must be a long fang.

The implications of this are:

If we look in the blood angels honor guard section it says any honor guard may have a Power Weapon for +XX points, a Plasma Gun for +XX points etc.

The Honor guard consist of 4 honor guard and 1 sanguinary noviate.

The sanguinary noviate is honor guard, so we can give him a Power Weapon, or Plasma Gun.

You may be trying to get at something, but like a monkey without a tree to climb, the banana is out of reach.

The long fang squad leader doesn't have the option to take any heavy weapon.

Apothecaries (vanilla codex) can't take extra wargear, they aren't "Veterans"

Sanguinary noviates can't take extra wagear, they aren't "Honor guard"

Cut and dry. If you need more answers simply google search can x unit take x and you will have your answer.

This is Easter Egg hunting at its finest.

I would be wary about assuming that the implications of the wording of one unit in one codex apply to units in other codices. 40k is evidently not a so-called 'tight' ruleset, as we have seen phrasing ruled in different directions in different books before.

The Squad Leader is a long Fang, since he is listed under the long fangs entry, and he is specifically excluded from taking a heavy weapon.

The same holds true for The Sanguinary noviates they are "Honor guard" they are listed under the honor guard entry.

The same does not holds true for Apothecaries (vanilla codex)they are "Command Squad" not Veterans they are listed under the Command Squad entry.

The squad leader is IMPLIED to be a Long Fang, but he isnt.

DR, it was simply a badly worded sentence. Niothing more.

DeathReaper wrote:That is the whole point.

The Long Fangs List the Squad Leader options separately as well, yet they give us this gem specifically excluding the Squad Leader from the "must replace his bolt pistol" clause.

The Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

And thus ends another lesson in circular logic...

What part of the "excluding the squad leader" did you not understand?

DeathReaper wrote:
If so this has widespread implications on other units and their upgrades.

Thoughts?

In my opinion, this issues has no implications for any unit other than Longfangs.

DeathReaper wrote:That is the whole point.

The Long Fangs List the Squad Leader options separately as well, yet they give us this gem specifically excluding the Squad Leader from the "must replace his bolt pistol" clause.

The Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

It's to make sure that the dickweeds out there don't try to give the sgt a heavy weapon.

But it also shows that the Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

That is a huge distinction.

This is Easter Egg hunting. There is no good reason to think that the phrasing here has any implications for other units.

Thee fact that the LF squad leader is implied to be an LF does not mean he is a Long Fang for purposes of squad upgrades. The fact that a Sanguinary Novitiate is a member of the Honor Guard unit does not make him an Honor Guard model. The unit listings and upgrades allowed in them need to be read in their own context. I would never try to shoehorn a fifth weapon upgrade into my Honor Guard on such a flimsy pretext.

If you want to give it to him, then you lose a Heavy weapon if you want to use the signum. Am I correct in saying that they have a signum though?

DeathReaper wrote:But it also shows that the Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

That is a huge distinction.

So.

What.

He's a Long Fang. Big Deal. He still cannot take a Heavy Weapon. Not sure why you keep harping on that one point when it really means absolutely nothing.

DeathReaper wrote:But it also shows that the Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

That is a huge distinction.

Yes, he is a Long Fang.... And as the squad leader is subject to the rule given for a squad leader in a long fang unit. Since this is a rule specific to Long Fangs Squad Leaders, it has no application to any other unit.

He is a Long Fang only in the sense of he is part of the Long Fangs.
But specifically he is not a Long Fang but a Squad Leader. Note: Its why he has his own profile and entry.

In the same sense, we are all Dakkites, yet im not OP.
Because OP is OP and im LunaHound.

It's redundancy for the sake of clarity. It might imply that he's a Long Fang and would thus be otherwise able to access gear available to Long Fangs, therefore being applicable to just about every other squad leader model out there...but it's just an implication brought about by some redundant wording. Nothing more.

DeathReaper wrote:But it also shows that the Squad Leader IS a Long Fang.

That is a huge distinction.

No, it IMPLIES he is a long fang. It also implies that GW didnt want people thinking you could give the sarge a heavy weapon as well.

Stop trying to break the game and just play for feth's sake...