Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Whats up guys?

I apologise in advance to any mods if I have placed this thread in the wrong forum - just guessing

TO THE MATTER AT HAND!

Proxying models. At one stage or another, all of us either have or have thought about proxying models in games.

The reasons for doing so vary; whether to try out if a particular unit works in your list and your pending your purchase, whether its either a creative use of a different model line to represent another unit altogether or even an entirely proxy-ed army.

But how much is too much? Is a single model okay? Perhaps a unit or two? Is an entire army overkill? Does it slow down gameplay dramatically, or is it too minor an issue to worry about.

I'm intrigued as to whether people get frustrated, enjoy looking at something different or just don't really care at all when it comes to games.


Let the opinions fly!

~Ghost

When people start with the morphng Space Marnes, I'll usually draw the line.

Generally, I don't mind that much. I understand that someone may not have the funds to buy all the models they want yet still want to play and I respect that.
However...
Seeing some people at my FLGS proxying 60-80% of their armies ALL THE TIME, after a while becomes annoying.
An opponent of mine has a bunch of old skeletons from an older VC range and has been using them for: SKeletons (obviously), Brettonian Men at Arms and Peasants, various Dwarfs, Chaos Marauders and I may be missing one or two more...
Also, some really old VC knights or something (skeletons in armor on horseback) have recently seen use as both Brettonian and Imperial Knights. A couple of big square bases (call us Trebuchets) complement the set.
So far I have let it slip with this guy, but I start getting bored playing against him.

Anyway, it is totally acceptable to proxy something you want to try out before buying or something you just want a little bit more of (even I use three square bases to make a unit of 6 Trolls when I only have 3)

By the way i just noticed I haven't exactly answered your question.
How much is too much?
Whole units are acceptable when trying new things, in my opinion.
After you have tried and settled down to a build you like, I accept that extra something I mentioned. Ok so you dont have 40 Orcs and want to field that many? Put 30 in a unit and add some other models in the back ranks to fill it up, I won't mind.

Testing out a new unit or simply getting stand in models that are pretty much the same as what they represent are completely fine to me. If it's a conversion even more so.

Though a coke bottle carnifex leading a swarm of skittles for gaunts is not.

Proxying should really be used only to test new ideas and compositions for armies.

How much is too much?-When so many units are proxired you can no longer keep track of everything being proxied... and also when the numbers of games played with the proxied models has been enough for someone to make their decision whether to buy new models or not... this should tend to be before they buy the new models or have them built and painted, otherwise there is no incentive to ever get anything resembling the proper models.

In my opinion i don't care what the model is as long as it's the right size base.

After all, we are only using models to represent units, so why not use different models to represent the same unit? In the end all that is different is that your army doesn't look the same.

Although i don't mind proxying it does tend to get a bit annoying when your proxying a whole army for months XD

In answer to your question, in my opinion, Proxying gets too much when they aren't willing to get the "proper" models ^^

I equate 'proxies' to wearing sweatpants. There are valid times and places to wear sweatpants, but usually never in public or at real events.

If you are that guy who is wearing sweatpants all the time, everywhere you go regardless of the event... then you will get looks like you are some sort of socially inept weirdo and people will judge you accordingly and treat you differently. If you don't like it... don't wear sweatpants in public.

nkelsch wrote:I equate 'proxies' to wearing sweatpants. There are valid times and places to wear sweatpants, but usually never in public or at real events.

If you are that guy who is wearing sweatpants all the time, everywhere you go regardless of the event... then you will get looks like you are some sort of socially inept weirdo and people will judge you accordingly and treat you differently. If you don't like it... don't wear sweatpants in public.

I love the sweatpants analogy. At some point you have to go and buy pants/models appropriate for the event/game.

To me proxying stuff is OK, as long as its kept in check. Im fine with some little proxys like testing out a new unit or character, but an whole army of proxying just goes overboard. I can't really comment on this blog because I have only played against opponents who use minimum, or no proxys at all.

I'm pretty sure that I can recall playing against guys using proxies and wearing sweatpants at the same time.

Anyway, I am also of the opinion that there is a time and a place for using a proxy but it's not something that should be done a lot. Mainly because I take care to ensure that my armies are WYSIWYG and all that good stuff, so I appreciate it when others do the same.

I'm pretty good with proxying. Usually I don't proxy much more than a meltagun or a champion/sergeant weapon.

My extremes are probably using terminators as obliterators and WHFB horses as bikers... Dreadnoughts as greater daemons, etc.

However... Most everyone I play with proxies...~70% of their army. It's very frustrating when you're the only person in your group who actually invests in the hobby D:

They'll just do whatever suits them. Shoeboxes as land raiders, rhinos as stormravens, rhinos as leman russes, tyranids as veterans, terminators as heavy weapon teams, space marines as command squads, dreadnoughts as raiders... The list goes on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
However... Most everyone I play with proxies...~70% of their army. It's very frustrating when you're the only person in your group who actually invests in the hobby D:

They'll just do whatever suits them. Shoeboxes as land raiders, rhinos as stormravens, rhinos as leman russes, tyranids as veterans, terminators as heavy weapon teams, space marines as command squads, dreadnoughts as raiders... The list goes on.

You may have outgrown your local gaming group. You might want to investigate becoming a gaming nomad. Investigate other gaming centers within driving distance and keep an eye out for larger events. Instead of gaming every weekend locally, maybe do one weekend a month but for a whole day like a tourney. I have found I am much happier gaming for a full saturday at a tourney with nice models at a well-run event than gaming 2-3 nights a week at proxy-land.

I think casuals who shy away from tourneys are missing out. I haven't seen a tourney unfriendly to casuals in a while. Even the hard events are very casual friendly as you usually end up playing someone about your skill level.

I would say if I was forced to play against 70% proxies and had no alternative, i would have quit long ago.

I'll post the same thing that I post every 6 weeks when this comes up:

When my friends are trying out a unit before buying it: No problem. My Nids buddy wanted to try out genestealer swarms so he used his IG troopers as Genestealers for a game.

When a friend is substituting a meltagun for a plasma gun, and it's the ONLY meltagun on the table or is otherwise easy to remember: No Problem.

That's about it. Note that both of those started with "When a friend..." If I don't know you and we play for the first time, show me the same courtesy that I show you by playing strict WYSIWYG.

I'm the student, and most of my friends playing around also are - so it is okay to play with proxies, even when you are NOT testing something in army, but the main exception is tourneys: tourney is a event, it is a day of the GAME, and this is a game that we should respect, so each tourney, no matter how local it is, must be played with all-modelled, and even all-painted armies.

Well, too much proxies is: "Is this a warhammer or checkers?? WTF is all this plastic glasses?"

See my army of Tyranids here, they are now Orks.

I don't like playing against people with proxied armies, I put the effort forth to make mine what it is and I appreciate the same level of courtesy. Proxied models are ok, but when they are consistently proxied because of laziness it gets aggravating.

Proxying, in the wrong situation, can be a curse upon tabletop gaming and completely dispel any attempts at creating an illusion of reality, or atmosphere, in a game.

These comics are always worth posting

I don't care what models you use so long as some effort was made not to insult me and the hobby. Using nickels for terminators and coke cans for carnifexes is insulting, using assembled and based (and ideally, painted!) minis from any manufacturer on the planet is not. My personal only exceptions to "anything goes otherwise" are this:

1.) I don't care what you proxy for drop pods. Red plastic cups, pickle jars, whatever are fine with me. Those models suck and serve no purpose other then being expensive placeholders. Just, like, spraypaint them black or something.

2.) If we're playing in a tournament, which I don't, but if we were, your proxies must have the correct measurements. No Baneblade size Rhinos or Rhino size Baneblades no matter how cool looking or well executed.

I am fine with proxyin so long as it is reasonable, like on one of my leman russes i glued heavy bolters on the sponsons because i thought they looked BA and i had no idea what i was doin, so now i just tell the person what they are and place the actual gun on top or just have em remember. But thats about the only thing I do, i would buy another leman russ but i am on college kid budget....

I need to find my frind an exceptable Plaguebearer proxy. I refuse to let him waste his money on those things. And I refuse to paint them for him.

Certain things are fine to proxy. If you play marines... you have no reason to. If you play daemons... I don't mind if you think nurglings look stupid and use spiders from Reaper or something.

As long as the unit looks like what it's supposed to, there really isn't a problem. If someone were to face me with space marines and said "Hey sorry, I want to try out a Salamander list today is it cool that all my assult weapons are melta?" I would say, "That's fine man. These rokkitz on the Kanz are Grotzookaz... All the Kanz have Grotzookaz".

I'd be fine with the skittles = gaunts proxy, as long as I get to eat my opponents models when they die.

Scarletsquig - I'd be fine with the skittles = gaunts proxy, as long as I get to eat my opponents models when they die.

Lol - well said.

No, I cannot ABIDE Proxying. I won't play against armies of Coke Cans and/or Skittles, or any other type thingymajig. I also liked the Cpt. Sweatpants analogy.

I loathe that stuff.

This Big shoota is actually a rokkit launcha... OK

This Basilisk is actually a colossus/medusa... OK

This tonka toy is a battlewagon, I want to try it out before I drop £35 on a new unit... OK

'This Happy Meal toy is my terminator lord, these plastic trees are terminators, these bretonnian knights are bikers, this zoanthrope is a dreadnaught, these meganobz are obliterations... NO

I dont care as long as its a gw model and not a can of beans and i Know what it is

I proxied TK Chariots as a Warsphinx and Necropolis Knights against a friend once prior to the official models coming out. I've used SoB as CSM a couple times against friends (all weapon load outs were WYSIWYG though). Most extreme ones I've ever done.

I'll say that I am a hobby-nazi.
Proxing is a nogo alltogether,
having a single flamer count as a melta for friendly testgames is okay,
Having unpainted miniatures is a nogo.

At tournaments, not having WYSIWYG is a nogo.

Since this proxy thread's already going, I figured I might as well ask here for the hell of it.

I currently run a Thousand Sons army, in the fairly standard blue/gold/white colour scheme. Lately I've been toying with the idea of doing a squad of Mk IV Maximus Armour models in the Pre-Heresy Sons red/white/gold colours, modifying the helms a bit to be more accurate, giving 'em greenstuff half-tabards and stuff, and equipping them with the Phobos pattern bolters and maybe custom-made CC weapons.

Now, if I wanted to field them as either a regular CSM squad or as another squad of Thousand Sons in my regular Sons army, would people consider that acceptable? Or would it just look and feel way too weird? XD They'd be pretty much WYSIWYG, except possibly for them having CC weapons when regular Chaos Thousand Sons don't actually have any (except for the sorcerer). Though I could easily get around that by just giving the Sergeant the CC weapon, and everyone else just bolters.

Does that even really count as a proxy? Or would people consider it pretty much same gak, different colour? I'm mostly just curious as to other peoples' opinions. To me it'd feel kind of weird, but right now my army is sorely lacking in troops choices, the mixed metal/plastic of the current Sons kits drives me insane, and I've been fiending to do a pre-heresy squad for a while now. Two birds with one... squad?

"These orks are bloodletters, etc"

Usually cos someone wants to trial a list before committing...

But if it becomes a semi-prmanent thing, they are just being cheap

Skits wrote:Since this proxy thread's already going, I figured I might as well ask here for the hell of it.

I currently run a Thousand Sons army, in the fairly standard blue/gold/white colour scheme. Lately I've been toying with the idea of doing a squad of Mk IV Maximus Armour models in the Pre-Heresy Sons red/white/gold colours, modifying the helms a bit to be more accurate, giving 'em greenstuff half-tabards and stuff, and equipping them with the Phobos pattern bolters and maybe custom-made CC weapons.

Now, if I wanted to field them as either a regular CSM squad or as another squad of Thousand Sons in my regular Sons army, would people consider that acceptable? Or would it just look and feel way too weird? XD They'd be pretty much WYSIWYG, except possibly for them having CC weapons when regular Chaos Thousand Sons don't actually have any (except for the sorcerer). Though I could easily get around that by just giving the Sergeant the CC weapon, and everyone else just bolters.

Does that even really count as a proxy? Or would people consider it pretty much same gak, different colour? I'm mostly just curious as to other peoples' opinions. To me it'd feel kind of weird, but right now my army is sorely lacking in troops choices, the mixed metal/plastic of the current Sons kits drives me insane, and I've been fiending to do a pre-heresy squad for a while now. Two birds with one... squad?

IMHO, you're pretty much sweet
It is clear - CRYSTAL - that you have put the effort in to make the models what they are meant to be. They're on the same size base, are WYSIWYG , and even painted in the 'right' colours. Anyone that seems to have a problem is either a troll or a gakker.

I think most everyone would totally be cool with it man

~Ghost

This


plus this



Does not make a Land raider.