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Even though the vehicle only transports 10 models, can a unit of 20 warriors still take one? The reason for it would be to put a shooty Royal Court in the Ghost Ark, but still allow the Ghost Ark to screen Annihilator Barges and Doomsday Arks, and also to repair models from the 20-man warrior unit that would be advancing alongside it.

Sure can.

I just seem to remember a unit of 15 Wyches not being able to take a Venom transport. I'm not sure if this is a codex-specific rule, or an actual rulebook rule.

If there is a limitation, it's codex specific. Some books say "If a unit numbers X or less, it may take a ..." while others don't include that limitation.

I think they can take it, begin the game deployed outside it, but obviously they can't embark into it until they're the correct unit size.

Page 91 in the Necron codex stats "May Select a Night Scythe or a Ghost Ark as a dedicated transport" It does not say a required unit size, so a unit of 20 may take one, but it may not embark.

Lol. That means that you can just have like 6 flyers floating around, with no one in them.

As others have said, the restriction on taking transports you can fit in does not appear in the Necron codex.

The reason behind this is unclear. It could be that Ghost Arks are meant to be able to be taken even if the squad can't fit just so it can be around to repair the unit, it could be that there will be a general rule in 6th edition that only squads can take transports if they can fit, it could be that GW is doing away with the "you must be able to fit" rule altogether, or it could simply be that they forgot to include that line.

But, no matter the reason, a squad of Necron Warriors can take a Ghost Ark even if there's too many to ride inside.

Actually I think it's just a difference in codex writers. All of the Ward dexes allow for unit size > than transport IIRC. Whereas the Kelly dexes (Thinking here of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork) all prohibit taking the transport.

I'm beginning to think having anyone other than Ward write your codex = A Bad Thing, since he writes the most free wheeling, flexible, and exception laden codexes in 40K.

Disclaimer: I included the Ork dex as a Phil Kelly codex, but I am not sure that one is his.

Among the other armies, I can't think of any examples where a unit can be greater than transport size. IIRC the Tau are limited in squad size to 12 which is the same as the Devilfish capacity. Please correct me if wrong. The IG almost always start with a squad size of 10 which fits in a Chimera fine.

Just my $.02

Kyrolon wrote:Among the other armies, I can't think of any examples where a unit can be greater than transport size.

Chaos Space Marines.

How far can a open topped vehicle move and the crew inside still fire their weapons?

Cause 12" Move plus 12" shooting = 24" of 40 S4 gauss shots of yummy goodness.

ZombieJoe wrote:How far can a open topped vehicle move and the crew inside still fire their weapons?

Cause 12" Move plus 12" shooting = 24" of 40 S4 gauss shots of yummy goodness.

The transported passengers are restricted to only being able to fire if the vehicle moves combat speed (6" or less).

However you can move 12", disembark... then shoot. Which actually get's you 26" assuming it's a rapid fire weapon.

Kyrolon wrote:Among the other armies, I can't think of any examples where a unit can be greater than transport size. IIRC the Tau are limited in squad size to 12 which is the same as the Devilfish capacity. Please correct me if wrong. The IG almost always start with a squad size of 10 which fits in a Chimera fine.

Just my $.02

Sisters can have 20 battlesisters and still have an Immolator as a dedicated transport which only holds 6. The squad could never start at that size either.

Oaka wrote:I just seem to remember a unit of 15 Wyches not being able to take a Venom transport. I'm not sure if this is a codex-specific rule, or an actual rulebook rule.

No such restriction exists, you can indeed buy a venom for 15 Wyches just can't embark retracted

rigeld2 wrote:If there is a limitation, it's codex specific. Some books say "If a unit numbers X or less, it may take a ..." while others don't include that limitation.

This is 100% correct

Kyrolon wrote:Actually I think it's just a difference in codex writers. All of the Ward dexes allow for unit size < than transport IIRC. Whereas the Kelly dexes (Thinking here of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork) all prohibit taking the transport.

Might want to look at Dark Eldar dex again, it does allow for unit size < than transport retracted

It real is cut and dry that it's allowable but why would you want to. It is a very expensive way to baby sit your warriors just for a repair ability. Just spend the points on more warriors.

Also remember that any other units can't start the game embarked in the warriors dedicated transport. They have to start deployed next to it and get in first turn.

Saiisil wrote:

Oaka wrote:I just seem to remember a unit of 15 Wyches not being able to take a Venom transport. I'm not sure if this is a codex-specific rule, or an actual rulebook rule.

No such restriction exists, you can indeed buy a venom for 15 Wyches just can't embark

Read the 'Dedicated Transports' section of Codex: Dark Eldar again. There is quite clearly a restriction. Page 91 I think.

But, there is not a restriction in every codex. It is army specific.

NecronLord3 wrote:It real is cut and dry that it's allowable but why would you want to. It is a very expensive way to baby sit your warriors just for a repair ability. Just spend the points on more warriors.

Hijack the Ark with a unit of HoD crypteks. Crypteks are protected/mobile + warrior mob gets some support

ToBeWilly wrote:Read the 'Dedicated Transports' section of Codex: Dark Eldar again. There is quite clearly a restriction. Page 91 I think.

But, there is not a restriction in every codex. It is army specific.

hmm never noticed that before, then again they usually put those restrictions in the unit entry for the unit that can take them, I guess something to point out to a few TOs out in this area because I have been seeing this tactic used in tournaments with some DE players.

Saiisil wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:Read the 'Dedicated Transports' section of Codex: Dark Eldar again. There is quite clearly a restriction. Page 91 I think.

But, there is not a restriction in every codex. It is army specific.

hmm never noticed that before, then again they usually put those restrictions in the unit entry for the unit that can take them, I guess something to point out to a few TOs out in this area because I have been seeing this tactic used in tournaments with some DE players.

It is one of those semi-hidden bits.

It is only really hidden to veteran players who generally ignore those little sections of text since they usually all say the same thing and never, otherwise, carry an restrictions in them; they usually just reiterate the BRB DT rules and tell you to see the BRB for the DT rules.

Yeah, I was first told about the Venom restrictions when I had hoped to take them for large Wych units (11+ models) that I had already planned to come out of webway portals. It's certainly hidden compared to other transport restrictions from other army books.

As for why I think it would be useful to take a Ghost Ark for a 20-model Necron unit: That above mentioned 5-Cryptek eldritch lance unit would probably be the most popular. A full Royal Court equipped with staves of light would also be a neat unit- 30 strength 5, AP 3 shots, albeit at 12" range. I also think 5 Necron Lords with gauntlets of fire would be a unique choice in a Necron army.

That could still be accomplished even with lower unit restrictions; because of the Monolith's Eternity Gate.

I do like the Idea of a Court mini-burna unit(5 Lords with GoF, 5 Crypteks as Harbingers of Despair= 5 flamer Template hits, and 5 AP1 Templates that will be wounding most units on a 4+ or better).

Why not just run a Cryptek with a veil to fire off eldrich lances?

Grakmar wrote:

ZombieJoe wrote:How far can a open topped vehicle move and the crew inside still fire their weapons?

Cause 12" Move plus 12" shooting = 24" of 40 S4 gauss shots of yummy goodness.

The transported passengers are restricted to only being able to fire if the vehicle moves combat speed (6" or less).

What if they are with a Phaeron and get Relentless?

phantommaster wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

ZombieJoe wrote:How far can a open topped vehicle move and the crew inside still fire their weapons?

Cause 12" Move plus 12" shooting = 24" of 40 S4 gauss shots of yummy goodness.

The transported passengers are restricted to only being able to fire if the vehicle moves combat speed (6" or less).

What if they are with a Phaeron and get Relentless?

It doesn't matter if you move more then combat speed you may not fire. Does not matter if your weapon assault, rapid fire or relentless with a heavy weapons.

You absolutely can. Matter of fact I take 2 squads of 20 each with a ghost ark. Put the ghost arks within range of both units and you can get to replace a total of 2d3 warriors. Handy as one squad is normally taking the punishment.

Oaka wrote:Even though the vehicle only transports 10 models, can a unit of 20 warriors still take one? The reason for it would be to put a shooty Royal Court in the Ghost Ark, but still allow the Ghost Ark to screen Annihilator Barges and Doomsday Arks, and also to repair models from the 20-man warrior unit that would be advancing alongside it.

you can certainly take the transport but the ark is very limited on what it can actually transport..... i think its only warriors and attached characters but i could be wrong.....

Warriors, Overlords, Lords and most importantly cryptecs!

mrspadge wrote:you can certainly take the transport but the ark is very limited on what it can actually transport..... i think its only warriors and attached characters but i could be wrong.....

There is no such limit, the Ghost Ark can carry any Infantry model not otherwise limited from transport. Only the purchasing unit may start the game embarked as usual.

Homer