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The orders don't seem that good to me, either.

An extra 6+D6'' is lame, and serves no real purpose. Sure, it makes Russ's "faster", but they're still slower than every other vehicle, but just can't shoot.

A pseudo split-fire seems "meh, alright". I can see the uses, though really they should have just given the damn thing split-fire...

Aren't smoke launchers one-use only? I can't actually remember. But either way, don't see this being hugely useful, either.

- - - - -

I mean, to be honest, I'm actually not sure what orders they could have created that would be useful for tanks, but aren't duplicates of infantry orders or overpowered (like bestowing twin-linked, or tank hunter).

 Compel wrote:
1) Skip a shooting phase to move a bit more. 6' by 4' Battlefields are not big enough to move backwards out of assault/melta range and why would you want to move closer to the aforementioned melta guns.

This could occasionally be useful for the demolisher and punisher, since they're sometimes out of range. An extra 6+D6" move to set up a demolisher cannon shot next turn is better than whatever you're going to get from a single BS 3 heavy bolter.

2) I really don't see the point of this. It's an incredibly wordy rule, with caveats forbidding everything that seems to make the rule useful. Seriously, all that stuff to let you pretend, for the duration of a shooting phase, that a tank in a squadron isn't part of a squadron. My tip would be... If you want to do that, don't put the tanks in a huge squadron that takes up a third of your points allowance in a game...

It's useful for FOC reasons. For example, you use a single HQ slot to take your tanks, and put three cheap Hydras/Griffons/etc in your three heavy support slots. It's not game changing, but it's not bad if you get it for free.

I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

I look at it this way. Their not the best but I like them better than the FW orders for the most part. Also they did not have to make tank HQ's they could have kept them the same. Also I found that the BS 4 helps a lot even with blast weps. And the free space for tanks is great.

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

But even with LD 9 success is far from guaranteed, so it's probably not a good idea to mix weapons on the assumption that you'll be able to split fire. It's a nice bonus when it happens, but not something to depend on.

Since storm troopers no longer exist and are now called Scions are the new Scions the only legal model?

Are the old kasrkin models and other old storm troopers playable as scions or are they illegal?

The average roll on a pair of dice is 7. In fact, 7 is the number that has the highest number of possible dice combinations with two dice being rolled. So when I have to roll a Leadership of 9 or below......to be honest, I'm unconcerned. In a 6 turn game I should only fail the order once, if that.

Orthon wrote:
Since storm troopers no longer exist and are now called Scions are the new Scions the only legal model?

Are the old kasrkin models and other old storm troopers playable as scions or are they illegal?

I highly doubt that somebody would disallow the use of OOP models. I mean, they're still GW models, just because they aren't produced anymore shouldn't mean they're not allowed to be used.

I assume you're talking about at tournaments/in GW stores.

Hydra=changing to open topped kinda sucks.

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

But even with LD 9 success is far from guaranteed, so it's probably not a good idea to mix weapons on the assumption that you'll be able to split fire. It's a nice bonus when it happens, but not something to depend on.

The chances of passing Ld9 is 5/6. So you'd be happy relying on it the same way you'd rely on a 2+ on a D6.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
An extra 6+D6'' is lame, and serves no real purpose. Sure, it makes Russ's "faster", but they're still slower than every other vehicle, but just can't shoot.

A pseudo split-fire seems "meh, alright". I can see the uses, though really they should have just given the damn thing split-fire...

Aren't smoke launchers one-use only? I can't actually remember. But either way, don't see this being hugely useful, either.

And not a single one of these orders gives the squadron 'Fear'. I mean, what a joke!!!

 Byte wrote:
Hydra=changing to open topped kinda sucks.

I just hope there's a point decrease because of it .

 Sir Bubbles wrote:

Orthon wrote:
Since storm troopers no longer exist and are now called Scions are the new Scions the only legal model?

Are the old kasrkin models and other old storm troopers playable as scions or are they illegal?

I highly doubt that somebody would disallow the use of OOP models. I mean, they're still GW models, just because they aren't produced anymore shouldn't mean they're not allowed to be used.

I assume you're talking about at tournaments/in GW stores.

Kasrkins=Scions. Any sane opponent would accept this. Including tournaments. At least one would hope.

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

If you have this configuration for your tanks then you're already playing the codex wrong anyway.. Not sure any order would help at that point!

 Kirasu wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

If you have this configuration for your tanks then you're already playing the codex wrong anyway.. Not sure any order would help at that point!

I'm just saying its an option with those orders. Vanquishers are somewhat overkill in units more than 2, and your base leman russ doesn't need a BS of 4. Though an Exterminator or Punisher with the higher BS would be amusing. Anyways, codex isn't even out yet, so we don't know the "right" way to play the codex yet =P

 Kirasu wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

If you have this configuration for your tanks then you're already playing the codex wrong anyway.. Not sure any order would help at that point!

Currently. But its now not too bad to have squads with a commander who has a different load out to the rest of the squad. Orders hardly ever fail so you can squeeze a bit more out of your support if you wanted to.

Of course we dont know all the details yet but in theory theres nothing wrong with that suggestion.

 pretre wrote:
It's an updated/modern Tallarn power sword.

If you really think that the Commissar's sword was an intentional modern take on an ancient Tallarn Sergeant model, then you have too much faith in GW's designers.

In any case, a curved sword isn't the problem. It's just how damned big it is.

That's what she said.

 azreal13 wrote:
That's what she said.

my wet tablet hates you!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The chances of passing Ld9 is 5/6. So you'd be happy relying on it the same way you'd rely on a 2+ on a D6.

But a 2+ isn't an automatic success. I could see relying on it for something like a plasma sponson vanquisher and a pair of executioners, since even if you can't split fire the command tank is still contributing something. But a 1/6 chance of failure is too much when you have something like a vanquisher and LRBTs, where failing the order means wasting hundreds of points that turn.

Just seeing GW change the IG layout, although there still on the stocklist i just ebayed myself some Guants Ghosts on ebay for a 10er. I can just see them being cut when i'm not looking...

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The chances of passing Ld9 is 5/6. So you'd be happy relying on it the same way you'd rely on a 2+ on a D6.

But a 2+ isn't an automatic success. I could see relying on it for something like a plasma sponson vanquisher and a pair of executioners, since even if you can't split fire the command tank is still contributing something. But a 1/6 chance of failure is too much when you have something like a vanquisher and LRBTs, where failing the order means wasting hundreds of points that turn.

Eh, given a 1 in 6 chance of failing the order and the fact even if you fail the tanks can still fire, just not at different targets, I'd be happy enough taking a Vanquisher with LRBT's if my Heavy Support slots are all full and I want more Russes.

I usually split my tanks apart as much as possible anyway and just squadron them up if I'm running out of FOC slots.

Nightclub Bouncher of the 42nd Millenium ,are spare tracks preferred choices of groin plates? And what is his weapon? it looks like a club but it also looks like medieval Handgonne

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The orders don't seem that good to me, either.

An extra 6+D6'' is lame, and serves no real purpose. Sure, it makes Russ's "faster", but they're still slower than every other vehicle, but just can't shoot.

A pseudo split-fire seems "meh, alright". I can see the uses, though really they should have just given the damn thing split-fire...

Aren't smoke launchers one-use only? I can't actually remember. But either way, don't see this being hugely useful, either.

- - - - -

I mean, to be honest, I'm actually not sure what orders they could have created that would be useful for tanks, but aren't duplicates of infantry orders or overpowered (like bestowing twin-linked, or tank hunter).

Ramming speed baby!

 kir44n wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

If you have this configuration for your tanks then you're already playing the codex wrong anyway.. Not sure any order would help at that point!

I'm just saying its an option with those orders. Vanquishers are somewhat overkill in units more than 2, and your base leman russ doesn't need a BS of 4. Though an Exterminator or Punisher with the higher BS would be amusing. Anyways, codex isn't even out yet, so we don't know the "right" way to play the codex yet =P

know what the best thing is about putting the commander in an executioner?

precision mo fo in shots!

heck I can think of a few other tanks that would absolutely rock the socks because of precision shots...


and yes, the extra move order is stupid, meh the others are AWESOME

we get to shoot, AND use smoke now? sweeeet, free cover baby. split fire is really powerful too, in general this looks like it opes a lot of stuff up for mech guard again.

 easysauce wrote:

 kir44n wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I'd say the second order would be usefull if you gave your Tank Commander a Vanquisher Tank, but the other two Tanks in his Squadron are Vanilla Russes. The Tank Commander can shoot at whatever vehicle he feels like, while the other two shoot at some infantry.

If you have this configuration for your tanks then you're already playing the codex wrong anyway.. Not sure any order would help at that point!

I'm just saying its an option with those orders. Vanquishers are somewhat overkill in units more than 2, and your base leman russ doesn't need a BS of 4. Though an Exterminator or Punisher with the higher BS would be amusing. Anyways, codex isn't even out yet, so we don't know the "right" way to play the codex yet =P

know what the best thing is about putting the commander in an executioner?

precision mo fo in shots!

heck I can think of a few other tanks that would absolutely rock the socks because of precision shots...

Wait, how do tanks get precision shots?

I intend to run my HQ tank as a Vanquisher with a standard LRBT trucking along with it as a 'shield'. Use the split fire order to plug armor with the HQ's vanquisher cannon and the LRBT's Battlecannon to hit other targets of opportunity, be it armor or infantry. Alternate option is to run a decked out Punisher and an Exterminator in the squadron with it to mow down infantry.

I'll run a pair of Griffon Mortars as my first Heavy Support choice.

Other Heavy Support will take the form of sundry Leman Russ variants, be they Demolisher, standard Battlecannon Leman Russes, or Exterminator patterns.

My current stable consists of Four Leman Russ Hulls.
One is modular between LRBT or Vanquisher (new kit)
One has two turret options, Exterminator or Vanquisher (old kit)
One has a battlecannon turret (alternate Exterminator/Vanquisher turret option here, old kit).
One is modular between Demolisher, Punisher, and Executioner (new kit).

Considering picking up one or two more for purpose, but we'll see. With the option to have extra Leman Russes in the army not eating up heavy support slots, it certainly gives me incentive to consider running three squadrons of two tanks together while still leaving a spare Heavy slot for some artillery.

Cool stuff to be sure. It was news like this I was looking forward to and wanting to get excited about this new codex.

TL;DR - 'Mo tanks, 'Mo betta.

Take it easy

-Red__Thirst-

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Wait, how do tanks get precision shots?

tank commander is an IC, cant join or leave units IIRC, but would still get precision shots.


like I said, YUMMY!

finally a non t3 hq "oh you got first blood by killing 5 t3 guys with 5+ armour, AND slay the warlord" unit

assuming the sponson options and stats remain, punisher cannon and 3 Hbolters, 35 bs 4 precision possible str 5 shots

Easysauce your gonna make that nids and ork player cry, stop it hehe. But in all seriousness I think the IG make make it out of this update relatively .. dare I say it? Balanced.. Though some details still remain to be seen (i.e, Is that a open topped Taurox or was that just for show?) I hope our high model count keeps us out of that FOTM club.

I covered the Stormtroopers Codex for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-militarum-tempestus_4.html