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The emperor is a powerful being...etc etc.
What if he turned to Chaos? If he made a deal with the dark powers in return for even greater strength, and just completely sold out humanity.
I suppose it isn't really possible. The whole deal with the emperor is that he's a man. He'd be compelled to protect humanity so control at their expense would be meaningless, like Midas-everything he touched turned to gold, but he couldn't do anything with it.
What does dakka think?

As far as I am aware the Emp is pretty much as powerful as any of the chaos gods - certainly after 10,000 years of worship and belief from the whole IoM.

I don't think that there is anything that the chaos gods could offer him, and even if there was, the chaos gods would probably not want to give something so close to their own stature any more power.

Also, the Emp is not "just a man" - he is the manifest will, spirit and power of all the most powerful psykers of humanity that was.

There are a number of alternative theories as to what would happen upon his "death": http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor#Rebirth

Imagine Gandalf taking possession of the One Ring.


Yeah, it would be pretty bad. Also, the Emperor was never "just a man". He was born out of the sacrifice of hundreds (a thousand?) psykers or ... shamans, and is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived.

See the above posters' wiki link.

But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

Absolutely. He truly is humanity's "God" in a very real sense. No matter how much most Spacemarine chapters want to say and believe otherwise.

Going back to the original question in your subject line though, it's a pretty big "if". If Grey Knights can never be turned by Chaos, then the Emperor never could either.

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

True, but he is to regular humans as humans are to ants - you can't assign human motives and emotions to the Emp.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

True, but he is to regular humans as humans are to ants - you can't assign human motives and emotions to the Emp.

Well, no, or he'd go around killing humans and making them work in giant sugar mines.
Rather than trying to re-unite humanity and save everyone.

Chaos has nothing to give the Emperor. They're opposites. It would never happen. And no, the Emperor is not merely a man in any sense. If he felt emotions as a normal, healthy human being.......

The Imperium would be TREMENDOUSLY different. But he seems to have had a lot of trouble with empathy. Oh well, heresy happens, I guess.

Your heresy has been noted. An inquisitor has been dispatched. Thank you for your concern, citizen.

The God-Emperor of Mankind couldn't turn, I don't think, since he's so opposed to Chaos. For someone to turn, the seeds of doubt or anger or jealosy or whatever have to be sown, but since he's a skellington strapped to life support, I can't see how those seeds could be planted.

Hypothetically, however, him turning to Chaos wouldn't make much of a difference at first. No-one would realise it for a while, I don't think. Imperial forces might suddenly have warp storms open up next to them and Daemons pour out, but no-one would think it any different to normal, until suddenly more psykers are needed to keep him alive, or perhaps his life-support would fail so that he could become one with the Chaos Gods, or maybe Abbadon would suddenly be able to muster a 13th black crusade and march on Terra. Hypothetically, of course.

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

Yes and look how many humans turn to Chaos.

-----

Ultimately, If the Big E turned to Chaos, humanity would be fethed quite simply. Some factions that support humanity as a whole and are clearly anti-chaos wouldn't go down easily, such as many Space Marine Chapters, but I think ultimately, it would be like the HH again, but Chaos would win.

@BrainDeleted: the Emperor is currently crippled and comparable to a corpse, what Chaos could give him is quite obvious IMHO; life.

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

That is very, very arguable.

The Emperor has never shown to be a man of particularly great compassion, empathy, or brotherhood. He was not, as is commonly believed, a good guy.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

That is very, very arguable.

The Emperor has never shown to be a man of particularly great compassion, empathy, or brotherhood. He was not, as is commonly believed, a good guy.

True, although you can say he was a good guy at heart and had noble intentions for his ultimate goal, he was just a bit (read: VERY) callous and heavy/bloody handed.

Just Dave wrote:True, although you can say he was a good guy at heart and had noble intentions for his ultimate goal, he was just a bit (read: VERY) callous and heavy/bloody handed.

You could say his goals were noble, but ultimately I'd say he was unfit to rule humanity. His near-utter lack of empathy is partially what led to the Horus Heresy, IMO.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Just Dave wrote:True, although you can say he was a good guy at heart and had noble intentions for his ultimate goal, he was just a bit (read: VERY) callous and heavy/bloody handed.

You could say his goals were noble, but ultimately I'd say he was unfit to rule humanity. His near-utter lack of empathy is partially what led to the Horus Heresy, IMO.

Yeah, I definitely agree with the 1st part (noble goals) which is what I was trying to clarify in the 1st place, but the rest I agree with somewhat and is just something we could debate back and forth!

Mankind would have a chance?

Oh right the actual topic.

Well... The Emperor himself is psychically as powerful as any of the Chaos Gods in the Warp, so they can't offer him much in terms of power.

However, a way to get off of that chair might be nice. I'd say that the Emperor would probably fall under Nurgle's wing were something like this to happen.

Of course, this can't happen in the setting, obviously.

Just Dave wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

Joey wrote:But emotionally, he's a man. He is human. He feels compassion, empathy, brotherhood etc. He feels connected to the rest of humanity.

That is very, very arguable.

The Emperor has never shown to be a man of particularly great compassion, empathy, or brotherhood. He was not, as is commonly believed, a good guy.

True, although you can say he was a good guy at heart and had noble intentions for his ultimate goal, he was just a bit (read: VERY) callous and heavy/bloody handed.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

Everyone would die.

If the Emperor turned there'd be no story and humanity would have sucumbed to chaos and destroyed more readily as was prophesized early on. Humanity, according to some is now just suffering a long slow inevitable death as it is because of his present state.

The Emperor is, arguably according to some fluff, not a man at all, but rather a vessel essentially designed (used loosely) to carry a united psychic consciousness. Human consciousness to be sure, but it's possible they all exhibit some control or are represented as facets. It appears that the Emperors sole purpose is to protect humanity as a whole as it makes its transistion to a more psychically tuned species. One, ten, a million humans are nothing where trillions of lives are concerned and the fate is anihilation as that is the crux of the 40k. No where does it say if the Emperor just didn't exist we'd all get along. It makes it quite clear it's us or them.

We may feel the trauma of a single death from a personal perspective, but I doubt whether the Emperor has that luxury. He does feel loss of course, as he did in losing his sons, but even they were created with one goal in mind, to keep humanity safe. The Emperor has sacrificed quite a lot when you think about it for the sake of humanity and that is his only goal. In the snapshot that is the 40k game universe our view as fans can be particularly myopic.

How much more human does he need to be? How should the god-warrior-protector of mankind behave?

Hmmm, More heresy to follow here (Don't :

So, say that The Emperor, after HH, was a being of the Chaos God sort (accumulation of human desire/belief). If this was true he (Chaos Emperor Overlord: CEO) wouldn't want peace anymore than any of the other Gods of Chaos, as war continues the prayers and hopes that feed CEO as a warp power.

Anyway, heresy, yadda yadda yadda, please keep the burning of the heretic logical and reasonable.

I seem to remember it being heavily implied in the HH novels that

IronSnake wrote:Imagine Gandalf taking possession of the One Ring.


Yeah, it would be pretty bad. Also, the Emperor was never "just a man". He was born out of the sacrifice of hundreds (a thousand?) psykers or ... shamans, and is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived.

See the above posters' wiki link.

But he is still human, just ridiculously powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

somecallmeJack wrote:I seem to remember it being heavily implied in the HH novels that

Spoiler:

The emperor did make a faustian pact with the ruinous powers in order to obtain the necessary knowledge to create the Primarchs. Whether or not he knew what he was doing and was going to renege on his deal anyway or whether he was deceived or whether he was the evilz all along is up for debate; not enough is yet known about this particular aspect of the space emperah's fluff.

This is something that just may not be true at all, considering it was something chaos worshippers said to convince people to join them.

It was said in the GK Omnibus that "Daemons only tell the truth when they know nobody will believe them"

IronSnake wrote:Absolutely. He truly is humanity's "God" in a very real sense. No matter how much most Spacemarine chapters want to say and believe otherwise.

Going back to the original question in your subject line though, it's a pretty big "if". If Grey Knights can never be turned by Chaos, then the Emperor never could either.

Funny, I've always interpreted the Space Marines view of the Emperor as a hero figure to them, the Emperor is all that they should try to be. He is figuratively their grandfather and they are trying to live up to the example he set for them.

Emperor would never turned. Whole point of his life is to protect Mankind. And he wanted for his people to be united, secure and prosperous ( hence the banning of a religion ). If he wanted for his people to be all slaves and all, he would wanted Chaos God status for sure.

In the exceedingly unlikely event that the Emperor should turn, the entire galaxy basically then divides by zero, crosses the streams, and suffers total protonic reversal.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Bill Murray!

CrashCanuck wrote:Funny, I've always interpreted the Space Marines view of the Emperor as a hero figure to them, the Emperor is all that they should try to be. He is figuratively their grandfather and they are trying to live up to the example he set for them.

Yes they do. That was my point, most space marine chapters do NOT view the Emperor as a GOD, but rather an extremely cunning and super-powerful MAN. But that's it. Although some chapters do celebrate him as a GOD, which they should... but that is something the Emperor never wanted.

So those space marine chapters who do not celebrate him as a God are "doing it right" according to the Emp's wishes, but technically doing it "wrong". Does that make sense?

In the event that the Emperor turned, Nurgle would return him to life, Slaanesh would heal his wounds, Khorne would make him strong again and Tzeentch would fix the Throne. Then mankind would explode.

But the Emperor turning is like Dumbledore setting Riddle on fire instead of his wardrobe, Aragorn killing Frodo and taking the ring, Aslan eating Edmund when he betrayed him. It won't happen.

He's a God himself and has being playing a big Chess/Regicide game against the Chaos Gods for thousands of years.

He's not going to join them they are the "Primordial annihilator" after all.

The Emperor thought he was going to die and had accepted it. I think that goes to show he was willing to give up everything.

"Sometimes things need to happen, even the most terrible things you can imagine need to happen, because sometime the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning" - The Emperor

The emperor is clearly a god of the same sort as the ruinous powers, though intentions may or may not differ. He was getting that way throughout the Great Crusade, but he wasn't quite going to get there until people actually started worshiping him as a deity. There have been tales of angels in the warp loyal to him, these are to him as bloodthirsters to khorne or tallymen to nurgle. Sanguinor and Celestine are like daemons in many ways. The Emperor is the 5th Major Chaos god, and my own pet theory is that the only thing keeping him from fully manifesting as one is the Golden Throne. Now if we could get the Astronomicon to function without him we would be solid. Of course given the description of psykers being flames in the warp, and the Astronomicon is a big light, it is entirely possible that it either doesn't actually need big E or that it could be modified to function with out him (since it is really nothing but a giant warp lighthouse).