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Having seen the tried and tested crowe/draigo/cotez lists, I am interested in some more outlandish lists preferably doing something with the often maligned Dreadknight.

So far from browsing the random bits of tactics here and there, I've seensome common themes:

#1 take the incinerator, it's better than the psycannon or gatling

#2 take the teleporter, it's expensive but allows shunt move and gives 12' regular moves as a jump infantry

#3 taking the great sword seems to be optional? not sure if there's any sort of concensus on this. take any melee weapon? since power fists come for free (double strength to 10, while g.swords reroll failed hits/wounds)

#4 get it into melee to prevent people from massed shooting it to death

#4.5 or just toss it in there as an expensive 200 point bullet soak

#5 take 2 of them, 1 is useless, 2 is good.

Anyone have some good strats in using these guys effectively? Toss in some storm ravens to confuse the enemy on what to shoot at? (storm ravens I've noticed even when empty just seem to attract so much fire it's almost silly) How do you overcome the lack of frag grenades?

personally, i haven't tried these.
but i am thinking to do. ( i don't like the model).

i think personal teleporter are too expensive. but effective. move 12" is very good. thoughnes 5 makes it almost imposible to kill by regular units. so, This huge mechas, should hunt the infantry.

i think the nemesis hammer is the best option. with it, it wouild wreck some vehicles. The problem is, because of his size, this dreadknights are very difficult to hide. Most enemies would empty their ammo firing at him.


your tips are very useful. i would try some day.

It's actually toughness 6 so it can't be ID by str 10 weapons =)

All those points are pretty much correct IMHO.

It can even be worth running one or two naked; for so few points they soak up A LOT of firepower.

sudojoe wrote:
#3 taking the great sword seems to be optional? not sure if there's any sort of concensus on this. take any melee weapon? since power fists come for free (double strength to 10, while g.swords reroll failed hits/wounds)

Can't really comment on other points, but unfortunately as per FAQ the Dreadknight only strikes at S6 with Nemesis Doomfists (DK is not walker, so no double str).
So the melee weapon upgrades actually do kinda make sense, even though you do lose the extra attack by doing so.

I've run them a few times myself. I always use some combination of sword and incinerator and occasionally the teleporter.

You really need to run at least two, and definitely expect to lose one to any competent opponent.

The best results seem to come from only throwing it into fights you know it'll win, like against other MCs or vehicles. (Don't throw it at genestealers....)

The best results seem to come from only throwing it into fights you know it'll win, like against other MCs or vehicles. (Don't throw it at genestealers....)

wasn't there a thread somewhere that instructed people on how to counter dreadknights? I can't seem to find it atm. It'd be nice to know the counters so as to avoid charging the wrong thing.

The dreadknights are really good, but they have to complement your list and they have to be well employed. Considering that they take up a heavy slot that could be going to a 135 point psyflenought, they really need to be integrally involved in your battle-plan.

It's rare that you want to equip them with a sword/hammer, because they lose an attack; and 6-7 strength they can wound pretty much anything on a 2+. Although, of the two, the greatsword is significantly better than the hammer - they can always ID with their force weapons, and rerolling armor penetration makes up for the 3 points of strength you're not getting.

At 135 PPM they are amazing heat sinks and will often force your opponent to ingore the remainder of your army as they advance. Best used with Coteaz lists that can lay down a lot of gunfire. I recently saw an interesting Razorspam list in a game that used 2 dreadknights coteaz and a librarian very effectively against an blood angels army. He kept pulling warp stabilized vehicles forward and throwing them in front of his Advancing DKs to keep them from getting charged; then assaulting with his death cult assassins and Dreadknights to kill terminator squads. It looked like two dudes who played each other a lot, and were very tailored for one another; still, kind of a cool tactic.


At 205 PPM, you can run them as deep striking gun batteries (Hvy Incinerator/Hvy Psycannon) or Flying Fists. An awesome complement for 1850 lists where you force your opponent to choose which threat to address.

The ubiquitous Fist/Incinerator flying twin dreadknight is expensive (470) and must be used as aggressively as possible, best employed in 2000+ DraigoWings where your entire army is just a rugged list of hard to kill units. Draigo can make them scoring units in objective games, or give them scout moves in KP games for a brutal alpha strike that serves the additional function of drawing fire away from your stormravens.

The Draigo/knight wing alpha strike is a tricky one to pull off, because your entire army moves in one direction in a tight knot - the librarian's shrouding protects everything, as your stormravens provide cover for your dreadknights, for that one round of lazorback/plasma/broadside/etc shooting that you have to endure before your entire army splits up to engage as many targets as possible in the following round.

The reason why dreadknights don't really see a lot of competitive use is that Razorspam, TH/SS Termispam, Hordes, and Drop Pod armies can bring them down without too much difficulty. But if you get them positioned well (with a good teleport) behind some LOS blocking terrain where you can control their engagement and have them hop from one CC to the next, well, then they are outstanding.

In the rare event that you actually are fighting daemons, a little dark excommunication goes a long way.

Remember that keeping them close to your librarian means that you can protect them with shrouding and sanctuary if you need to.

The knight is a good problem solver in a GK list. It can shunt tothenfront of a grouping of missile long fangs and kill them all with ease. It can shunt to the backfield of an enemy GK list and run through the psydreads back there.

Use incinerator, sword and teleporter. It is a problem solver. If you have something else to reliably take out those common units I mentioned above, then you don't need one. Otherwise ....

junk wrote:The dreadknights are really good, but they have to complement your list and they have to be well employed. Considering that they take up a heavy slot that could be going to a 135 point psyflenought, they really need to be integrally involved in your battle-plan.

It's rare that you want to equip them with a sword/hammer, because they lose an attack; and 6-7 strength they can wound pretty much anything on a 2+. Although, of the two, the greatsword is significantly better than the hammer - they can always ID with their force weapons, and rerolling armor penetration makes up for the 3 points of strength you're not getting.

At 135 PPM they are amazing heat sinks and will often force your opponent to ingore the remainder of your army as they advance. Best used with Coteaz lists that can lay down a lot of gunfire. I recently saw an interesting Razorspam list in a game that used 2 dreadknights coteaz and a librarian very effectively against an blood angels army. He kept pulling warp stabilized vehicles forward and throwing them in front of his Advancing DKs to keep them from getting charged; then assaulting with his death cult assassins and Dreadknights to kill terminator squads. It looked like two dudes who played each other a lot, and were very tailored for one another; still, kind of a cool tactic.


At 205 PPM, you can run them as deep striking gun batteries (Hvy Incinerator/Hvy Psycannon) or Flying Fists. An awesome complement for 1850 lists where you force your opponent to choose which threat to address.

The ubiquitous Fist/Incinerator flying twin dreadknight is expensive (470) and must be used as aggressively as possible, best employed in 2000+ DraigoWings where your entire army is just a rugged list of hard to kill units. Draigo can make them scoring units in objective games, or give them scout moves in KP games for a brutal alpha strike that serves the additional function of drawing fire away from your stormravens.

The Draigo/knight wing alpha strike is a tricky one to pull off, because your entire army moves in one direction in a tight knot - the librarian's shrouding protects everything, as your stormravens provide cover for your dreadknights, for that one round of lazorback/plasma/broadside/etc shooting that you have to endure before your entire army splits up to engage as many targets as possible in the following round.

The reason why dreadknights don't really see a lot of competitive use is that Razorspam, TH/SS Termispam, Hordes, and Drop Pod armies can bring them down without too much difficulty. But if you get them positioned well (with a good teleport) behind some LOS blocking terrain where you can control their engagement and have them hop from one CC to the next, well, then they are outstanding.

In the rare event that you actually are fighting daemons, a little dark excommunication goes a long way.

Remember that keeping them close to your librarian means that you can protect them with shrouding and sanctuary if you need to.

very good analogy.
well written, with points and descriptions.

i never has played with dreadKnights. but reading all this tactics. i think i must try it.
i will post my experience with them.

greets

I dont know if it has been said yet, but sudojoe, the DK is base strength 6, not 10. Nemesis doom fists are DREADNAUGHT close combat weapons. they double the strength of walkers, a DK is a monstrous creature not a walker. This is not speculation, they put this in the FAQ, so the greatsword can be useful. sorry.

canadianone wrote:I dont know if it has been said yet, but sudojoe, the DK is base strength 6, not 10. Nemesis doom fists are DREADNAUGHT close combat weapons. they double the strength of walkers, a DK is a monstrous creature not a walker. This is not speculation, they put this in the FAQ, so the greatsword can be useful. sorry.

yep, I just found that in the FAQ also. I guess it gives me a reason to actually use hammer hand on them I guess.

I'm actually learning alot from this thread. It's certainly more stuff than I've found randomly browsing around.

I had actually never thought about twin dreadknights in a draigo wing before @_@. That list sounds like a bunch of fun! so it's essentially 2 dreadknights + strom ravens x2 for the paladins + draigo and librarian + paladins? Does it need much in the way of heavy support anti-tank i.e. ven dreads?

Well, I just started using him, but he mostly seems to be a good complement to my Draigowing.

I usually use LRs, SRs, rhinos and all, but sometimes I do the "true Draigowing", all Deep striking, no vehicles, just to keep everyone honest and play with the meta a bit. The dreadknight fits pretty well into this list because to use something like one lone psyflemen or three would just be suicide.

For this use (and I'm still practicing) I'm mostly using him as a fire patform, e.g. both psycannon and incinerator.


I think lot of people see the heavy incinerator as the obvious choice and disregard the psycannon. From my perspective both are nice, the incinerator is likely a little more cost efficient, BUT a MC can fire two weapons, if you're already stopping to fire one (i.e. not running) aren't you wasting the second shot if don't have a second weapon.

Of course, even with just the two guns, he's already up to 200.

Realistically, I think it's hard to recommend either CC weapon add-on. They're both good in their own way, but you're paying points and giving up an attack at the same time. The truth is the doomfist are really good already, free, and an extra attack.

The main reason to use the sword is because it's pretty, seriously. I magnetized all the right hands just so I could use the sword for painting scores.

The teleporter is the tough choice. Really useful, but hella points. Jury's still out on that. Does add a lot of mobility to my Draigowing which is otherwise stuck in molasses once it Deepstrikes. On the otehr hand, I'm already DSing everything anyway.

If I put everything I want on it, it comes out at 275. That seems like too much to me, on the other hand I've been seeing it do great things.

I'm hoping fear of draigo will keep some fire off him.

One downside that it occupies a HS slot and prevents you from taking 3 regular Psyfleman Dreads. Further Dreads (venerable) are available in the Elite section but are much more expensive.

wuestenfux wrote:One downside that it occupies a HS slot and prevents you from taking 3 regular Psyfleman Dreads. Further Dreads (venerable) are available in the Elite section but are much more expensive.

GK are about more than just psyflemen, y'know.

But yeah, that's why I think they tend work well for my anti-meta no vehicle lists.

as a strange aside, since we seem to be talking about draigo wing now, what with the FAQ saying terminators can ride in chimeras, would it be possible to use a combined cotez + draigo list with it be mobile without using up SR or LR points? Acolytes can pop out to cap points while draigo and pallies steal some very cheap rides?

Yes, but chimeras are not assault vehicles, and draigo's squad cannot start embarked in them, which means it's 2 turns before the paladins can get into assault where they need to be.

However if you have 5 paladins with draigo and in a storm raven, and your four psycannons are in the five man squad inside the chimera, then it does become a pretty good mobile gun battery.

Usually a draigowing includes both Draigo and a librarian, to maximize the effectiveness of the paladins; so you don't end up using henchmen at all.

Good strategy: put them on the board; watch your opponent cry himself to sleep.

sudojoe wrote:as a strange aside, since we seem to be talking about draigo wing now, what with the FAQ saying terminators can ride in chimeras, would it be possible to use a combined cotez + draigo list with it be mobile without using up SR or LR points? Acolytes can pop out to cap points while draigo and pallies steal some very cheap rides?

Now you're going to hijack the thread. Paladins or Termies have TDA and so should go outside of a Chimera. However, against a very shooty enemy, you might consider this option.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:One downside that it occupies a HS slot and prevents you from taking 3 regular Psyfleman Dreads. Further Dreads (venerable) are available in the Elite section but are much more expensive.

GK are about more than just psyflemen, y'know.

But yeah, that's why I think they tend work well for my anti-meta no vehicle lists.

indeed.
even the GK codex says that it is very rare to see GK Dreadnoughts in the battlefield.
i think they wrong on this.


i really like purgators squads. they can do a lot of damage. but that's for another Topic.

greets

Purgators in a chimera, that's some good gravy.

so back on topic a bit, do you guys perfer to scout move the dreadknights or save them for outflanks?

deep strike (possibly with servo skulls via grand maste or) or just personal teleport into position or maybe just keep running in 12' at a time? Seems like they are all equally viable but it's so hard to decide what to do with them.

sudojoe wrote:so back on topic a bit, do you guys perfer to scout move the dreadknights or save them for outflanks?

deep strike (possibly with servo skulls via grand maste or) or just personal teleport into position or maybe just keep running in 12' at a time? Seems like they are all equally viable but it's so hard to decide what to do with them.

Deepstrike against weak cc armies like tau and IG, or out flank against hordes like orks or nids. Also, scout is good for MEQs.

Because landing in the midst of FW/Crisis suits is pretty much ideal for a Dreadknight, but being surrounded by orks...kinda suck. That's why you take them from their vulnerable flank. Also, you attack marine with scout move up the center so that you can attack right away, and just plow right in since they won't have enough models to swamp you.