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Just wondered what units you lot think are the worst in the FOC, either by army or overall?
Simply because they didnt work for you or you think they are too expensive.

From units i've used i'd say i've had worst results with/really overpaid for:

HQ: Footslogging Hive Tyrant (too slow for me, though was pre-hive guard)
Elite: Chaos Dreadnought (Inconsistent, doesn't behave, but CAN be awesome)
Troops: Eldar Rangers (Never done enough, expensive)
Fast Attack: Rough Riders (Nothing ever close enough that i couldnt shoot, but was back in 3rd/4th)
Heavy Support: Gretchin Zzap Guns/ Tyranid Biovores (both normally useless for me)

What about you?

HQ: The Tau one that can rout your entire army if it dies
Elite: Pyrovores
Troops: unsure - Rippers are pretty crap, but not sure if there's worse
Fast Attack: unsure
Heavy Support: unsure

rigeld2 wrote:HQ: Space Pope
Elite: Pyrovores
Troops: unsure - Rippers are pretty crap, but not sure if there's worse, Summon Daemons?, some people like them, but Fire Warriors can't really beat any thing besides Grots, which are useful in their own way.
Fast Attack: SM Vanguard Vets
Heavy Support: unsure

Added some.

heavy-The Leman Russ with autocannons.
fast attack-sentinals
HQ-priests
elites-ogryns
troops-conscripts.

HQ: Space Pope, without doubt
Elites: Black Templar Sword Brethren
Troops: Imperial Guard Special Weapon Teams
Fast Attack: Chaos Raptors
Heavy Support: Eldar Artillery(not even sure of the exact name )

Jidmah wrote:HQ: Space Pope, without doubt
Elites: Black Templar Sword Brethren
Troops: Imperial Guard Special Weapon Teams
Fast Attack: Chaos Raptors
Heavy Support: Eldar Artillery(not even sure of the exact name )

*BEWARE* the fan boys will come and attack you for that bit about the Raptors, and drown out any legitimate protest with their songs of jump pack praise.

I'll just choppa them. Just like those raptors. Beats me why you pay permium points to put jump packs on a unit which lacks any nominal combat potential, just to get it into combat faster. Pretty much the same for any other jump marines without any additional special rules.

Mustela wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:HQ: Space Pope
Elite: Pyrovores
Troops: unsure - Rippers are pretty crap, but not sure if there's worse, Summon Daemons?, some people like them, but Fire Warriors can't really beat any thing besides Grots, which are useful in their own way.
Fast Attack: SM Vanguard Vets
Heavy Support: unsure

Added some.

Hey. Fire Warriors are great. For 60 points they make the devilfish Scoring.

Wow, there are some medicore units listed, but some of the selections here aren't even close to the worst.

HQ: Tau Ethereal: doesn't do much positive, competes with the awesome Crisis Commander, has a huge potential downside

Elite: Pyrovores: short ranged shooting in the busiest slot in the book!

Troops: Nurglings: can't score, can't fight, and always deepstrike.

Fast Attack: Chaos Demons Furies: while S4, T4 and jump infantry, being WS and I 3 and having no upgrades really prevents them from accomplising much.

Heavy Support: Flash Gitz: stupidly overpriced and underpowered.

Mustela wrote:Fire Warriors can't really beat any thing besides Grots, which are useful in their own way.[/b]
Added some.

10 points for a 30" BS5, S5

Mustela wrote:

Jidmah wrote:HQ: Space Pope, without doubt
Elites: Black Templar Sword Brethren
Troops: Imperial Guard Special Weapon Teams
Fast Attack: Chaos Raptors
Heavy Support: Eldar Artillery(not even sure of the exact name )

*BEWARE* the fan boys will come and attack you for that bit about the Raptors, and drown out any legitimate protest with their songs of jump pack praise.

Hissssss they are great cheap and effective spam ... but being fair the D-cannon for all its epic damage sucks at only 24" (other option are good though)

Worst ...
... HQ? Bahrarroth 200pts for a guy with a power weapon and wings?
... Elites? Mandrakes (Dark eldar) ... shocking rules but such a nice model
... Fast? SkyClaw Assault Pack ... WS3, BS3, if within charge range may not shoot must charge.
... Troop? Thousands sons ... slow and purposeful ...
... Heavy? Deathstrike ... amazing weapon but really unreliable

HQ: Ethereal (takes up crisis command slot and will probably make your army run away when killed, which will happen easily).
Elite: Tau Stealth Teams/ BT power armour sword brethren (both are a cool concept but are overpriced and take up slots that could be put to better use (ie. Terminators/Crisis)).
Troops: IG Conscripts (one point less than guardsmen yet absolutely terrible).
FA: Shining Spears (far too expensive for what they do)/Rough Riders (get blown to pieces before getting to use their termie slaying lances).
HS: Devastators (expensive)/ LR Punisher (its got what is effectively a high str paintball chain gun)/ LR Vanquisher (waste of time and points when you could employ vet carrying Vendettas instead)/ Deathstrike (takes far too long to prep)

@ Polonius: Nurglings are great for tar pitting anything with a low number of attacks. 3W with a 5++ save and eternal warrior. It a take a long time for most dreads and a lot of MC to chew threw that. Add in the fact you can DS them and run them to make a wall in from of the unit you want to block they start to look good.

worst for daemons:

HQ: herald of Nurgle.
Elites: Beast of Nurgle. ( even more so compared to blood crushers fiends and even flamers.)
FA:Furies.

Jidmah wrote:I'll just choppa them. Just like those raptors.

Shining Spears: has anyone on the planet ever fielded these?
Flash Gitz: Stupid expensive and competes with options that are much better

HQ: Ethereal - Everyone pretty much agrees on this one
Elites: Ratlings or Stealth Suits
Troops: Noise Marines - way too expensive and not worth it at all.
Fast Attack: Spore Mines? - They're the only ones that truly come to mind.
Heavy Support: Penitent Engine - I'm not big on SoB but front armour 11, open-top doesn't seem like it will last too long.

There are mine, critic if you must.

Shining spears aren't bad.
A full unit should kill ~5-6 marines before they swing.
A full squad led by an autarch should kill 9 marines before they swing.
They've got speed to pick and choose fights, and can easily swoop in and finish squads.

How about those BS2 imperial prison squads that nobody runs?
Vespids?
Skyray?

-Matt

Joey wrote:heavy-The Leman Russ Punisher, Vanquisher and Eradicator.
fast attack-IG doesn't really have bad, just nothing really better than a Vendetta...
HQ-priests
elites-ogryns
troops-conscripts.

Fixed that for you. and for free!

Try a different codex for each slot:

HQ chapter master
ELITE mandrakes
TROOP conscripts
FA sky-slasher swarm brood
HS support weapon battery

HQ ? i have heard a lot of bad things about the space pope. Still havent seen the model. Not once. that must imply that it is either expensive, it sucks or both.
Elite CHAOS DREAD a vehicle that does not do what you want one third of the time. Blows up your own vehicles etc.
Troops Ripper swarms, they attack them selves, they cant score, they suck in combat.
Fast attack Chaos spawn. 40pts for a no save model.
Heavy support ? Not sure though i am tempted to say flash gits.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Shining Spears: has anyone on the planet ever fielded these?
Flash Gitz: Stupid expensive and competes with options that are much better

I played a guy at a GT who had a eldar army with lots of fast things and jetbikes.
He used a autarch on jetbike witha unit of Shining Spears, he really knew his list well and this unit combined really well with the army.
He owned my chaos marines with them, seriously. He says they always do well.

Has noone mentioned mandrakes yet?

deviant cadaver wrote:@ Polonius: Nurglings are great for tar pitting anything with a low number of attacks. 3W with a 5++ save and eternal warrior. It a take a long time for most dreads and a lot of MC to chew threw that. Add in the fact you can DS them and run them to make a wall in from of the unit you want to block they start to look good.

That's true, I suppose ripper swarms are probably worse, although I still think nurglings are pretty bad at anything other than tarpitting dreadnoughts, as too many things in the demon book can rip up MCs (letters, daemonettes).

but, as you've pointed out, they at least tarpit better than ripper swarms, so get the nod.

Penitent engines are TERRIBLE. They are really scary if they actually get into combat. If you opponent has two brain cells they will blast them apart quickly, and every army can do that reliably. If they could ride in a drop pod maybe.

Arco-Flagellants. They seem decent, until you realize that Uriah Jacobs IS your HQ choice in SoB, and gives everything feel no pain. Once DCA have FNP, there is no compelling reason what so ever for you to take flagellants, unless you also take Krynov, and at that point you may as well take crusaders. Okay, not actually a unit by itself, but they still are deceptive and useless.

I have never seen space pope be worth anything on the battlefield. He looks neat. I could see him being great in a display case. Also I have no idea what his actual name is.

Aun'va isn't useless.

You can get three Tau Objective Markers for 35 bucks.

HQ (non-special characters): GK Brother captain--everything else is just so much better OR much cheaper, they really give you no incentive to run these guys at their huge point cost. (as an aside, etherals can make a huge kroot block fearless, getting rid of Kroot's biggest weakness, and the etherals are not that expensive.)

Elites: Mandrakes for their points are terrible, BUT I feel that Nurgle beasts are the worst. Mandrakes at least give you lots of s4 ap4 shots if you are metagaming, while Nurgle beasts are strictly worse than plague bearers. Nurgle beasts are not even the beast type, and dont have poison, and are more expensive than 2 troop plague bearers but have the same profile.

Troops: Probably blood claws, because while they are not terrible compared to other armies, within their own codex they are made pretty much useless by grey hunters. Other mentions are Battle sisters, because as the only troop they have almost no versatility and are expensive, and ripper swarms in tyranids who offer almost nothing compared to gants while having a worse profile and hindering special rules.

Fast: Vespid are pretty bad, but not the worst overall. Things like flying rippers, overpriced bikes in many armies, daemon furies, ect, all are completely useless compared to other choices in the same FOC. Furies for example are outclassed by every other daemon fast, but cost the same. Flying rippers are simply worse than gargoyles. Bikes like the bloodclaw bikers have bad profiles compared to things like thunderwolves. By far fast attack has some of the least useful units of any of the FOCs, many armies dont even bother with fast attack slots yet fill every other slot.

Heavy: While my first instinct is to say flash gits, since their cost and weapon are so expensive, instead I want to go with whirlwinds. Their cost to benefit ratio is very low, and while you could say the no cover blasts are good for the metagame at times, with the advent of thunderfire cannons you have a strictly better weapon for that metagame that also lets you hit at s6 when needed, or slow your enemy. Plus you get a techmarine.

HawaiiMatt wrote:How about those BS2 imperial prison squads that nobody runs?
-Matt

just a nitpic; but you are confusing Penal Legionaries and Conscripts.

Penal Legionaries are BS3 stubborn mobile(on foot, not mechanized) assault troops.

Conscripts are BS2/WS2/Ld5 worthless wastes of Guard infantry models; only useful with "Send in the next wave!" in an objective mission for last turn Home objective grabbing(last turn have them return, move 6" onto the board towards the objective, then Run d6" hoping to get at least a 3); but even that removes the all important FRF!,SRF! order from one of your Platoon commanders.

HQ: Herald of Nurgle... SO WORTHLESS OMG!!!!
Elite: Mandrakes - dunno what they were thinking, but needing a pain token to do what they were designed for is stupid.
Troops: Nurglings - Why they're troops when they cannot score I'll never know...
Fast Attack: Chaos Furies - Really...? They're super expensive and useless
Heavy: Cannot think of one in the 'dex's I have... But I'll concur with the Deathstrike

Nurglings, as mentioned, are great tarpits for their points. Also, they combo very well with the tallyman. You can do much worse than Nurglings... if scoring were so important then elite/fast/heavy would all be worthless.

Mandrakes are bad, but still have that s4 ap4 shooting, so could potentially have a place. Like if your opponent runs necron warriors hehehe, he will curse your Mandrakes all day long.

As an aside, I thought the hearald of nurgle was really really good in tallyman lists?

DevianID wrote:Nurglings, as mentioned, are great tarpits for their points. Also, they combo very well with the tallyman. You can do much worse than Nurglings... if scoring were so important then elite/fast/heavy would all be worthless.

Well, scoring is important for a troops choice because most troops don't do as much damage (or provide buffs) as non-troops.

Plaguebearers don't do much, but are good because they are a durable scoring unit.

Look at something like Chaos Furies: if a troops choice, they'd actually be good. They're mobile and semi-durable, and could score.

Taking away the ability to score from a troops choice just makes it a unit that needs to accomplish something. And, while nurglings aren't the worst troop in the game (I forgot bout rippers), they are still pretty bad, aside from as a tarpit.

A lot of these lists are really bad... GK Brother Captains are the worst HQ in the game? Umm...

This is the definitive list right here:
HQ: Aun'va. Duh.
Elites: Pyrovore
Troops: Ripper Swarms
Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn or Sky-slasher Swarms
Heavy Support: Deathstrike Missile Launcher, Flash Gitz, Leman Russ Punisher