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This is the second game I had with Necrons recently. First game was with John (Metallicarule), he was dabbling his hand in Space Wolves. Even though I've got pictures of the first game, I cannot remember what happened correctly - fail! So straight onto the second report.

Necrons - 2,000 points

HQ

Necron Overlord w/ Catacomb Command Barge - warscythe

Royal Court - 3 x Cryptek's w/ harbinger of destruction & solar pulse
Destroyer Lord

Troops

9 x Necron Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
9 x Necron Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
9 x Necron Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
5 x Immortals
Fast Attack

10 x Canoptek Scarabs
10 x Canoptek Scarabs
5 x Wraiths - 2 x whip coils

Heavy Support

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
2 x Canoptek Spyders - fabricator claw array


Blood Angels "Wing Striker" - 2,000 points


HQ

Librarian - shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Librarian - shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Honour Guard w/ Razorback - 2 x flamers - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun
Honour Guard w/ Razorback - 2 x meltaguns - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

Elite

1 x Sanguinary Priest

Troops

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Vindicator

Game: Annihilation & Pitched Battle

Deployment

Necrons win the roll off and deploy in the centre, Ghost Arks turn side ways and everything deploys behind them.

Blood Angels deploy top right corner and are castled up, they have a nice firing line if Necrons come between two buildings or can reposition to get another firing lane if Necrons flank around. Vindicators and melta units are deployed at the front.

Turn 1

Angels attempt to steal the initiative, but fail.

Necrons move out with a Overlord moving 24" and taking cover behind a ruin while the Destroyer Lord and Wraiths move up behind the large centre ruin with Scarabs to support.

Shooting, both Librarians cast shield. Lances glance and penetrate the same Vindicator, though shield saves both. A Razorback also takes a penetrating hit and is saved by shield.

Blood Angels remain in position. Solar pulse is used.

Shooting, lascannons manage to reach out in the dark and explode a Ghost Ark - squad passes pinning test. Overlord's Barge takes a glancing hit, but is saved.

Kill points: Necrons - 0 Blood Angels - 1

Turn 2

Necrons move forward while Overlord move 12" in his Barge and bails out to assault.

Shooting lances blast out and cause some damage, but pesky shield saves again!

In assault the Overlord blows up a melta Razorback - squad passes pinning test.

Blood Angels move about a little bit, but keep formation. Melta Squad on foot moves through terrain to intercept the Scarabs.

Overlord eats las/plas and dies and his Barge soon follows.

Kill points: Necrons - 1 Blood Angels - 3

Turn 3

Necrons move forward while Scarabs still get bogged down in assault. Destroyer Lord and Wraiths split and go their own seperate ways.

Shooting, Librarians both cast shield again. Razorbacks take hits from eldritch lances, but thanks to angle of attack the tanks get 3+ cover save and pass. Warriors on foot by the exploded Ark blast the Assault Squad in the ruin along with Immortal support, but all Marines are ok.

In assault the Destroyer Lord attacks a Librarian and Honour Guard's Razorback, it is wrecked. Wraiths multi assault a Vindicator and Razorback, Razorback is stunned and nothing happens to Vindicator.

Angels move about so they don't get hit auto hit in assault.

Shooting, Vindicator drops a template on the Scarabs blowing up several bases, the other Vindicator misses. All lascannons and plasma guns in range empty into the Scarabs leaving only two bases left from one swarm.

In assault Librarian and flamer Honour Guard charge the Destroyer Lord, thanks to furious charge from the Priest, the Librarian wounds the Destroyer Lord and then uses his force weapon - the Destroyer Lord is dust! Wraiths do nothing to either vehicle they are in assault with.

Kill points: Necrons - 2 Blood Angels: 4

Turn 4

Ghost Arks that have flanked around the ruin are now at the Blood Angels lines as the other unit of Scarabs moves out of terrain ready to assault. Wraiths move up the Blood Angels lines to find more targets.

Shooting, one Ghost Ark and the Warriors inside rapid fire into the flamer Honour Guard and Librarian leaving the Librarian on a single wound and just a single flamer Honour Guard left - they pass morale. Warriors and Immortals blast the Assault Marines in cover again, but all are ok.

The large unit of Scarabs assaults a Vindicator and hits it with 65 attacks, the tank armour is rotted and is wrecked. The other two base swarm attacks the other Vindicator and reduces it to av7, it explodes as they burrow into the metal armour. Wraiths explode a empty Razorback.

Blood Angels turn, the two melta Assault Marine units on foot move to engage the Wraiths while the Librarian and single Honour Guard move to burn the Scarabs with support from another flamer Assault Squad and the melta Honour Guard.

Shooting, Scarabs get burnt and shot while the two base unit takes a melta shot and a couple of las/plas thanks to cover before they die. Wraiths get blasted by bolt pistols and meltas, one dies and another takes a wound.

In assault Scarabs get charged by Librarian, single Honour Guard and flamer Assault Squad, Scarabs lose and don't have many bases left. Wraiths get charged by two melta Assault Squads, they lose combat but don't take any no retreat saves - one passes reanimation protcols and gets back up.

Kill points: Necrons - 5 Blood Angels: 5

Turn 5

Necrons move about a bit, nothing major.

Shooting the Razorback carrying the other Librarian gets shot, it Librarian saves one, but the other goes through and the tank is shaken. Another lances blasts the Priests Razorback but all is ok.

In assault Scarabs get battered by Assault Marines, though Librarian fails psychic test and dies. Wraiths lose combat again and take a wound from no retreat!

Flamer Assault Squad moves up towards the Warriors coming down from the exploded Ark and the single Honour Guard follows to support them. Tanks move about so they don't get auto hit.

Shooting, Razorbacks fire at the two remaining Arks but do nothing.

Assault, single Honour Guard and Assault Squad charge the Warriors and Cryptek, Angels lose combat and the Assault Squad hangs in, but Honour Guard flees. Wraiths and Assault Marines draw in combat killing a model each.

Kill points: Necrons - 6 Blood Angels: 6

Turn 6

Necrons move about a little bit nothing major, though the Spyders which had been moving through terrain smash through the walls ready to attack the remains of the melta Honour Guard.

Shooting, gauss and lance blast a Razorback and it is wrecked. Razorback holding the last Librairan is immobilised and shaken by lance and gauss fire power. Immortals blast the single Honour Guard with tesla carbines and the single Marine is dead.

In assault the Warriors and Assault Marines battle to a stalemate while the two Spyders claw the other Honour Guard unit to pieces. Wraiths beat the Assault Marines in combat, though both Marine units pass morale and stick around.

Angels turn, last few Razorbacks blast a Ghost Ark but do nothing.

In assault, Warriors get beaten by the Assault Marines, though the Warriors stay in the fight. Wraiths start getting knocked down and only one remains with a single wound.

Kill points: Necrons - 9 Blood Angels: 6

Turn 7

Spyders move up to support the single Wraith while the Arks move about as the Immortals come down.

Shooting, Librarian casts shield, though his Razorback takes damage from gauss and lance shots.

In assault Spyders charge the Assault Marines engaged with the Wraith, one Assault Squad now has a single Marine left and one unit is totally wiped out.

Blood Angels turn, the Angels bail out their tanks to deal with the oncoming Necron menace. Librarian and flamer Assault Squad charges and kills the Immortals via sweeping advance. Two Assault Squads charge the Spyders and Wraith, they lose combat and one unit falls back. The remaining Warrior in combat with the Assault Squad is wiped out.

Kill points: Necrons - 11 Blood Angels: 8

At the end of the game Necrons have 11 kill points and Blood Angels 8.

Summary

I didn't feel that was a easy game for Necrons at all, especially at the start. I think they had some bad rolls at the start and Blood Angels good rolls as every time they got some damage on a tank shield saved it. The damage came down when the Necrons where close.

Scarabs are just win, no doubt about them.

Spyders are pretty cool. Just need to remember to spawn as my first game I forgot! In this game one Spyder took a wound.

Warriors and Immortals are alright, Warriors better as they can rapid fire those gauss blasters, though Immortals in this list are meant for objective holding.

Crypteks are ok, the lance isn't that awesome, solar pulse is handy, just a shame you need two Royal Courts, though in my first game I did have two Courts.

Both Lords are easy targets, especially for kill point games. I think the Destroyer Lord is better as the Overlord costs more with a Barge and while can get more attacks in thanks to the movement sweep move, it greatly depends on how fast the Overlord has moved and also the formation of enemy units so you can actually fly over.

Wraiths were ok, didn't do amazing in combat, but I will put that down to bad luck as they have a decent number of attacks and never one got a rending. Problem is it is either those or Scarabs, and Scarabs are far better, but Scarabs do die quicker.

Annihilation Barges once again did nothing and get blown out the sky, though I did forget to fire one! My hope with these was tank supression, but they can't seem to get close enough before been blown up. I'll test them some more.

I played in a 1500 pt tounrament this weekend and had some different results. The Annihilation barges really preformed great in my list and the OL on CCB was the MVP of the day. I have not tried the destroyer lord with Wraiths but am going to next weekend in a friendly game I have scheduled. I played BA and Eldar in the tourney and the AB's were better vs the Eldar but still did some damage vs BA.

I agree the Cryps with lance isn't that great but the SP was very powerful in my games.

Nice report,

altough why in the world that lord got out of his barge? secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Though on the other side of things i'm glad to see that different necron lists are doing ok!! that blood angel list is evil...

if you want your shooting to get better? why not take out barges and spiders and put in triarch stalkers, so you can twinlink shots at key units?
Wraiths and Dlord look menacing on paper, but you need mindschackle scarabs in there, no excuse to not have it... that librarian would be in a dire situation if he misses his ldstest, which is very likely.

Good report, glad to see Necrons doing well against such an OP list

Necrons move forward while Overlord move 12" in his Barge and bails out to assault.

Why would you do that? You can move Flat-Out over a target and make sweep attacks that hit on a 4+ rather than dealing with the speed the vehicle moved. Additionally, your opponent would have had to fire first at the barge, and then at the Lord if he wrecked it in order to kill it off.

Necrons move forward while Scarabs still get bogged down in assault. Destroyer Lord and Wraiths split and go their own seperate ways.....

and then

.......In assault Librarian and flamer Honour Guard charge the Destroyer Lord, thanks to furious charge from the Priest, the Librarian wounds the Destroyer Lord and then uses his force weapon - the Destroyer Lord is dust! Wraiths do nothing to either vehicle they are in assault with.

Why did you split the Destroyer Lord? Seems like it was obvious he would die horribly if he wrecked the Librarians tank. Force Weapons are the one thing Destroyer Lords are vulnerable to, so it would be prudent to keep him with the Wraiths that reduce the Librarians Initiative below his. He'll easily murder a Librarian with a Warscythe if he attacks first.

Wraiths get charged by two melta Assault Squads, they lose combat but don't take any no retreat saves - one passes reanimation protcols and gets back up.

Wraiths don't have Reanimation Protocols.

It seems like there were mistakes early in the game that could have cost you, but you were able to bring it back with the Scarab charges. Once the Scarabs got in combat with the Blood Angels vehicles you were able to pull it back and deal a decent amount of damage. I think a bit of patience with the Overlord and the Destroyer Lord would have seen you win this game with a far greater margin.

That said, I wasn't there so I don't have much context for the above claims. Perhaps it was necessary to do some of the things you did but without pictures or a video it's hard to tell.

Good report, and a nice victory, proving once again that Scarabs are the best unit in the book and that Necrons won't be able to function competitively without them

This list works a lot better I find than your AV13 vehicle spam list...those scarabs replacing heavy destroyers clearly proved more effective in earning you some Kps. That said, that BA list was not as strong as it could have been...He was clearly going for vehicle spam (duh) but wasting points on an honor guard was a poor decision...It woulda been more effective to stick his libby with a tac squad in their razor and take Baals...those would have really wrecked your scarabs with their 3 flamer templates or assault cannon fire...

Negator80 wrote:Good report, glad to see Necrons doing well against such an OP list

Clearly it was not that OP lol..such small squads proved to be his undoing, despite the mass of AV11. More AV13 would have helped I think, especially with the heavier weapons it could bring to bear. Twin vindies is fun (I only own vindies and a lr personally, just cause it's fun to use that blast template) but from a competative standpoint I find they're too susceptible to weapon destroyed rolls...

Dude, you honestly don't have a clue do you? The angels razor list is as optimised as it gets. do you know why honour guard are taken? More specials and more priests, which aren't i.cs. also tactical squads do not belong in blood angel armies. so far all I've read from your comments is you tailor lists, that's poor sportsmanship and boarding cheating.

Please refrain from post nonsense and only post thoughtful comments.

To be honest I do believe the Vindicators are a poor choice compared to Auto-Las Preds in the Blood Angels list. They have only a single gun, and while they can move 12" and fire it, they are a bit redundant with all of the Plasma fire in the list. Vindicators are mainly taken as anti-terminator and anti MEQ but Plasma does that just as well, and though you lose S10 pie plates for shooting at vehicles, a pair of Auto-Las Preds are more accurate and will do just as well except against Land Raiders.

But that's just personal preference. The Vindicators can function, I just happen to prefer Predators in their slot for accuracy and durability, and they still do a number on Scarab swarms. Baal Preds on the other hand would eat into the CC potential of this list, which is a big part of it, and the reason I assume the Honor Guards and the Priest are there. It would be a totally different list if you replaced the Honor Guard with Baals and would lose all of it's CC ability for the benefit of scout moving tanks.

I'd be interested in seeing a Pred Spam list at 2k going against this Necron list, because I wonder if Searchlights on the Scouting Baal Preds would lend the Blood Angels an advantage against the Night Fight. Just a thought.

interesting list there Mercer.... Might tweek mine slightly; but my findings are basically the same as yours (our lists are identical). I'm personally looking into running Arks after todays game...

Valek wrote: secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Um what Codex are you reading from? Please enlighten me

@Aldarionnn - I disagree, the list already has enough las canon fire, the vindicators keep the list competitive against draigo builds which would other wise allocate all day long and walk through his army.... It is a solid list though it will never score high in composition or creativity.
Scout moving Baal preds do what... get closer to the scarabs and give away KP's for the task you suggested the Baals would be lucky to gain a KP in return for their 3...

I have to agree with the comments concerning his necron lord, why disembark? defeats the purpose of the barge entirely. Also Mind shackle scarabs, mind shackle scarabs, mind shackle scarabs. I cannot stress this item enough as it saves your IC from being ID'd and turns it on your opponent in assaults. Statistical average on three dice is an 11 (10.5) which means the average test is a fail. Keep your characters in units and position them to use their MSS for the win. Aside from, this good job... I think razorwire is actually inherently weak against the crons do to scarab swarms and RP/arks which repair most of the damage to their units.

Red Corsair wrote:@Aldarionnn - I disagree, the list already has enough las canon fire, the vindicators keep the list competitive against draigo builds which would other wise allocate all day long and walk through his army.... It is a solid list though it will never score high in composition or creativity.

That is of course a fair point. I hadn't thought of Vindicators in a Blood Angels list against Draigo-Wing.....that's definitely interesting. I might have to give that list a go.

@Aldarionn- Yea it's tough, with each book released things need to be re-evaluated.

mercer wrote:Dude, you honestly don't have a clue do you? The angels razor list is as optimised as it gets. do you know why honour guard are taken? More specials and more priests, which aren't i.cs. also tactical squads do not belong in blood angel armies. so far all I've read from your comments is you tailor lists, that's poor sportsmanship and boarding cheating.

Please refrain from post nonsense and only post thoughtful comments.

You'll have to forgivve me I meant assault squad. I was referring to his troops choices as a good slot (since razors are almost always a better choice than rhinos) I play BA so often I forget that assault squads aren't tac...it is all I use. And wouldn't that be the point of creating a list...? to tailor it to your opponant? My apologies if this was some sort of competition where you build a take all comers list, but I find that if you're going to optimize a list its better to tailor it for friendly games...that way t doesn't get boring to use your army While personally I love to take lists that are unique or fluffy, his list clearly was optimized vehicle spam, so why shouldn't he have optimized it more?

Just to counter your tone, you do know that priests are taken as an elite slot? if he wanted to take more priests he could have easily just taken them three to an elites slot rather than paying extra for honor guard. plus then his libbies could have protected his squishy 5 man squads. After all if you're going to field a 5 man squad why pay extra for space marines? they're expensive enough without taking honor guard. Besides he didn't even take sanguinary priests except for one in an elites slot...unless something is missing from the list in which case, again, my apologies.

My point with the baal is not for its speed but rather to add extra AV13 to the army rather than a wave of AV11. Having played many armies that spam such tactics, I find that av11 can only carry so many guns. Extra AV13 in place of the AV11 means more guns (with sponsons and a turret) and thus more shots. Plus sponson heavy flamers are more effective than the flamers he took with his honor guard. While yes the assault cannon is not as effective as it used to be, and does have a harder time against armor, its volume of shots make it a more versatile unit, and he has enough las/plas in his six other rhinos. Those extra shots would have helped out when he needed to target something besides a vehicle, like when you closed on his tanks. This also is part of the problem with my beloved vindicators...they only get 1 shot, and it's a blast, so it's very dangerous to shoot it near your units. With a TL assault cannon he could have fired, and the plethora of weapons means that a single weapon destroyed would not render his AV13 into little more than a wandering rhino...

Excellent work with the necrons though, it's nice to see them win I hated how everyone thought they sucked when their dex first came out, so I thoroughly enjoy every necron win. good job

dbsamurai wrote:And wouldn't that be the point of creating a list...? to tailor it to your opponant? My apologies if this was some sort of competition where you build a take all comers list, but I find that if you're going to optimize a list its better to tailor it for friendly games...that way t doesn't get boring to use your army While personally I love to take lists that are unique or fluffy, his list clearly was optimized vehicle spam, so why shouldn't he have optimized it more?

Tailoring lists is widely considered to be bad form amongst most casual gamers. You are generally supposed to design your list with a good amount of flexibility so that whatever your opponent brings you have a game plan. If, for instance, you know your friend plays mech imperial guard a lot, and you build your list with almost no anti-infantry because he mostly has vehicles, then you will be up a creek if one day he brings a horde of guardsmen and not a single Chimera chassis, Leman Russ or Vendetta to be found on the board.

Designing a list specifically to beat an opponent because you have pre-knowledge of what they are going to bring is poor sportsmanship at best, and it's definitely not fun for the other player. That said, these games appear to be tournament practice for the most part, so both players want to have a strong, all-comers list because in a tournament you could see anything.

dbsamurai wrote:Just to counter your tone, you do know that priests are taken as an elite slot? if he wanted to take more priests he could have easily just taken them three to an elites slot rather than paying extra for honor guard. plus then his libbies could have protected his squishy 5 man squads. After all if you're going to field a 5 man squad why pay extra for space marines? they're expensive enough without taking honor guard. Besides he didn't even take sanguinary priests except for one in an elites slot...unless something is missing from the list in which case, again, my apologies.

Sanguinary Priests are 3 to a slot, but each one is an Independent Character and each one is worth a Kill Point. By taking an Honor Guard, he has a model with a Blood Chalice in the unit, but instead of being worth 4 Kill Points (Librarian, Priest, Unit, Transport), they are worth 3 Kill Points, and they are exactly 6 man units so they fit inside Razorbacks. This makes a pretty big difference. As for "squishy" 5 man squads, Blood Angels with a Sanguinary Priest or Novitate nearby are actually quite capable of beating opponents that vastly outnumber them. FNP and Furious Charge make for one hell of a combo, and when 5-6 guys are getting their licks in at Initiative 5 before a tactical Squad twice their size, they are going to win that combat handily.

The other Priest is likely never intended to get out of one of the tanks. They project their aura 6" from the vehicle hull which means if the unit disembarks and then assaults (assuming the vehicle didn't move first) then they get the benefit of Furious Charge and FNP without having to risk the Sanguinary Priest, and in that case he can benefit multiple units at once from inside his vehicle. In fact a friend of mine uses the massive hull of Land Raiders to do this quite effectively. With a pair of Honor Guard in the list, each with a Sanguinary Novitate, and a third Priest not attached to those units and capable of moving around the army, you can effectively boost your staying power and killing potential for those small "squishy" units via careful movement.

Valek wrote:

altough why in the world that lord got out of his barge? secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

This is Wrong, and you have been corrected in multiple threads about this. STOP posting it.

The honor guard squads are a great addition to this list. They bring all the benefits of a normal assault squad plus a priest. Mounting them in a razor is an easy way to get more cheap armor on the field. The only drawback? They aren't scoring. Otherwise they are well priced for what they bring to the table.

Dice rolling seemed to be a big issue for the BA player mid game...lots of failed damage attempts. It definitely seemed like the BA player's intentions were in the right place and should have had better success dealing damage. Oh well, sometimes the dice gods don't look kindly on us :( When it comes down to that, can't really blame tactics or army build.

Really surprised how many shield saves were made in the beginning. Those libbys seemed to make their points back just by saving razors and causing distress for the crons

Overall another fantastic and informative battle rep, Mercer!

As a mech BA player who's roommate is starting to collect a new necron army, posts like this will surely be poured over by me

Over 9000! wrote:

Valek wrote: secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Um what Codex are you reading from? Please enlighten me

p52 starts with "Whilst a character remains embarked on a Catacomb Barge..." so if you go out to charge you are no longer embarked and you cannot make sweepattacks.

Valek wrote:

Over 9000! wrote:

Valek wrote: secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Um what Codex are you reading from? Please enlighten me

p52 starts with "Whilst a character remains embarked on a Catacomb Barge..." so if you go out to charge you are no longer embarked and you cannot make sweepattacks.

You make the sweep attack during movement. You can get out after you've made the sweep attack, depending on how fast you moved. You can then assault, since it's an open topped transport. So yes, you can assault after you've made a sweep attack.

Aldarionn wrote:To be honest I do believe the Vindicators are a poor choice compared to Auto-Las Preds in the Blood Angels list. They have only a single gun, and while they can move 12" and fire it, they are a bit redundant with all of the Plasma fire in the list. Vindicators are mainly taken as anti-terminator and anti MEQ but Plasma does that just as well, and though you lose S10 pie plates for shooting at vehicles, a pair of Auto-Las Preds are more accurate and will do just as well except against Land Raiders.

But that's just personal preference. The Vindicators can function, I just happen to prefer Predators in their slot for accuracy and durability, and they still do a number on Scarab swarms. Baal Preds on the other hand would eat into the CC potential of this list, which is a big part of it, and the reason I assume the Honor Guards and the Priest are there. It would be a totally different list if you replaced the Honor Guard with Baals and would lose all of it's CC ability for the benefit of scout moving tanks.

I'd be interested in seeing a Pred Spam list at 2k going against this Necron list, because I wonder if Searchlights on the Scouting Baal Preds would lend the Blood Angels an advantage against the Night Fight. Just a thought.

When I built and tested this Angels list over a year ago my first pick was Predators. Even though they was fast, I had the same problem I did with normal Predators, the sponsons. Plus do I really need more lascannons and more ranged fire power? I don't really think so.

Now, the Vindicators. I like things which make big booms, you probably do as well . The Vindicators can double out T5 i.e Thunder Wolves and annoying Paladins. They are also excellent for anti horde as well, two shots from these will cause havoc to a large unit of Ork Boyz. More importantly is the synergy these Vindicators give. With the Predators they are sitting back, so they are not advancing with the Razorbacks, which are getting shot, plus the Preds have no funky shield. With the Vindicators they can advance with the Razorbacks and get shield protection. Add in that the Vindicators ALWAYS get shot first, this lets my weaker Razorbacks survive a lot, lot longer.

Vindicators FTW

Zid wrote:interesting list there Mercer.... Might tweek mine slightly; but my findings are basically the same as yours (our lists are identical). I'm personally looking into running Arks after todays game...

It was one I quickly thought up, really like a D-Lord and Wraiths are a ideal choice.

Cpt Stubbs wrote:I played in a 1500 pt tounrament this weekend and had some different results. The Annihilation barges really preformed great in my list and the OL on CCB was the MVP of the day. I have not tried the destroyer lord with Wraiths but am going to next weekend in a friendly game I have scheduled. I played BA and Eldar in the tourney and the AB's were better vs the Eldar but still did some damage vs BA.

I agree the Cryps with lance isn't that great but the SP was very powerful in my games.

The Anni Barges were just bad luck (hit 1 out of 4 shots) and got took out before they did anything. I will be trying them some more.

Valek wrote:Nice report,

altough why in the world that lord got out of his barge? secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Though on the other side of things i'm glad to see that different necron lists are doing ok!! that blood angel list is evil...

if you want your shooting to get better? why not take out barges and spiders and put in triarch stalkers, so you can twinlink shots at key units?
Wraiths and Dlord look menacing on paper, but you need mindschackle scarabs in there, no excuse to not have it... that librarian would be in a dire situation if he misses his ldstest, which is very likely.

The Overlord can get out from the Barge after doing a sweep attack . The reason though why the Overlord did get out because there was no space to land the Barge if it went to sweep attack. So it was either move flat out and get a cover save and do nothing, or get the Overlord out and assault something.

I've written a new list and included Stalkers, but also got Barges and Spyders .

Mindshackle scarabs, Destroyer Lord is a suicide tank nut job, so the scarabs are not needed.

Negator80 wrote:Good report, glad to see Necrons doing well against such an OP list

Thanks man.

Aldarionn wrote:

Necrons move forward while Overlord move 12" in his Barge and bails out to assault.

Why would you do that? You can move Flat-Out over a target and make sweep attacks that hit on a 4+ rather than dealing with the speed the vehicle moved. Additionally, your opponent would have had to fire first at the barge, and then at the Lord if he wrecked it in order to kill it off.

The Overlord didn't sweep. There was no room to move over a target and land because the Angels were castled up. So it was either move flat out and get a cover save or get out and assault. I think I chose the lesser of two evils.

Necrons move forward while Scarabs still get bogged down in assault. Destroyer Lord and Wraiths split and go their own seperate ways.....

and then

.......In assault Librarian and flamer Honour Guard charge the Destroyer Lord, thanks to furious charge from the Priest, the Librarian wounds the Destroyer Lord and then uses his force weapon - the Destroyer Lord is dust! Wraiths do nothing to either vehicle they are in assault with.

Why did you split the Destroyer Lord? Seems like it was obvious he would die horribly if he wrecked the Librarians tank. Force Weapons are the one thing Destroyer Lords are vulnerable to, so it would be prudent to keep him with the Wraiths that reduce the Librarians Initiative below his. He'll easily murder a Librarian with a Warscythe if he attacks first.

The Wraiths and D-Lord were split so they could attack multiple vehicles, it worked. Point of the D-Lord is to suicide on a tank.

Wraiths get charged by two melta Assault Squads, they lose combat but don't take any no retreat saves - one passes reanimation protcols and gets back up.

Wraiths don't have Reanimation Protocols.

Thanks for that

Good report, and a nice victory, proving once again that Scarabs are the best unit in the book and that Necrons won't be able to function competitively without them

Scarabs are the nuts. If you're running Scarabs then you need Spyders, at least two.

Aldarionn wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing a Pred Spam list at 2k going against this Necron list, because I wonder if Searchlights on the Scouting Baal Preds would lend the Blood Angels an advantage against the Night Fight. Just a thought.

Scouting Baal Predators would be Scarab bait and would let the Scarabs probably assault turn 1.

Red Corsair wrote:@Aldarionnn - I disagree, the list already has enough las canon fire, the vindicators keep the list competitive against draigo builds which would other wise allocate all day long and walk through his army.... It is a solid list though it will never score high in composition or creativity.
Scout moving Baal preds do what... get closer to the scarabs and give away KP's for the task you suggested the Baals would be lucky to gain a KP in return for their 3...

I have to agree with the comments concerning his necron lord, why disembark? defeats the purpose of the barge entirely. Also Mind shackle scarabs, mind shackle scarabs, mind shackle scarabs. I cannot stress this item enough as it saves your IC from being ID'd and turns it on your opponent in assaults. Statistical average on three dice is an 11 (10.5) which means the average test is a fail. Keep your characters in units and position them to use their MSS for the win. Aside from, this good job... I think razorwire is actually inherently weak against the crons do to scarab swarms and RP/arks which repair most of the damage to their units.

Spot on about the Vindicators

See above about the Lord and mind shackle scarabs

dbsamurai wrote:

You'll have to forgivve me I meant assault squad. I was referring to his troops choices as a good slot (since razors are almost always a better choice than rhinos) I play BA so often I forget that assault squads aren't tac...it is all I use. And wouldn't that be the point of creating a list...? to tailor it to your opponant? My apologies if this was some sort of competition where you build a take all comers list, but I find that if you're going to optimize a list its better to tailor it for friendly games...that way t doesn't get boring to use your army While personally I love to take lists that are unique or fluffy, his list clearly was optimized vehicle spam, so why shouldn't he have optimized it more?

Just to counter your tone, you do know that priests are taken as an elite slot? if he wanted to take more priests he could have easily just taken them three to an elites slot rather than paying extra for honor guard. plus then his libbies could have protected his squishy 5 man squads. After all if you're going to field a 5 man squad why pay extra for space marines? they're expensive enough without taking honor guard. Besides he didn't even take sanguinary priests except for one in an elites slot...unless something is missing from the list in which case, again, my apologies.

My point with the baal is not for its speed but rather to add extra AV13 to the army rather than a wave of AV11. Having played many armies that spam such tactics, I find that av11 can only carry so many guns. Extra AV13 in place of the AV11 means more guns (with sponsons and a turret) and thus more shots. Plus sponson heavy flamers are more effective than the flamers he took with his honor guard. While yes the assault cannon is not as effective as it used to be, and does have a harder time against armor, its volume of shots make it a more versatile unit, and he has enough las/plas in his six other rhinos. Those extra shots would have helped out when he needed to target something besides a vehicle, like when you closed on his tanks. This also is part of the problem with my beloved vindicators...they only get 1 shot, and it's a blast, so it's very dangerous to shoot it near your units. With a TL assault cannon he could have fired, and the plethora of weapons means that a single weapon destroyed would not render his AV13 into little more than a wandering rhino...

Excellent work with the necrons though, it's nice to see them win I hated how everyone thought they sucked when their dex first came out, so I thoroughly enjoy every necron win. good job

You're still wrong though about Assault Squads and Librarian. You said take two flamers (you need 10 guys for this) and a Librarian and pop them in a Rhino, Rhinos only carry 10 dudes, so that will not work.

The point of creating a list is to create a balanced all round list which can take on anything. List talioring is almost cheating. If you talior your list to vehicles and then play a mass infantry list then you will have massive problems.

And yes I know Sanguinary Priests are elites, I know Blood Angels very well, that is my own list btw. You're still not getting the point though. Honour Guard add MORE special weapons and also a Priest WHICH IS NOT A KILL POINT. As for 'squishy' 5 man units, do you seriously play Blood Angels? Angels with Priests can take a fair amount of punishment and cause some damage in assault.

How are Baals going to make a difference? They will totally change this list. Heavy flamers sponsons are not good at all. Honour Guard can flame a unit with double flamers and then assault after to finish the unit off. A Baal Predator will be sitting right in front of the remaining target.

You also seem to contradict yourself. You say the assault cannons on a Baal could fire at a target besides a vehicle, but then say could fire at the tanks when they draw close . Also who is going to fire a demolisher shot and risk hitting their own squad? Honestly?

Seriously, please, stop posting on my threads.

OIF Knight wrote:The honor guard squads are a great addition to this list. They bring all the benefits of a normal assault squad plus a priest. Mounting them in a razor is an easy way to get more cheap armor on the field. The only drawback? They aren't scoring. Otherwise they are well priced for what they bring to the table.

Dice rolling seemed to be a big issue for the BA player mid game...lots of failed damage attempts. It definitely seemed like the BA player's intentions were in the right place and should have had better success dealing damage. Oh well, sometimes the dice gods don't look kindly on us :( When it comes down to that, can't really blame tactics or army build.

Really surprised how many shield saves were made in the beginning. Those libbys seemed to make their points back just by saving razors and causing distress for the crons

Overall another fantastic and informative battle rep, Mercer!

As a mech BA player who's roommate is starting to collect a new necron army, posts like this will surely be poured over by me

Spot on about the Honour Guard

Shield was seriously getting on my tits.

Thanks about the report

Sasori wrote:

Valek wrote:

Over 9000! wrote:

Valek wrote: secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Um what Codex are you reading from? Please enlighten me

p52 starts with "Whilst a character remains embarked on a Catacomb Barge..." so if you go out to charge you are no longer embarked and you cannot make sweepattacks.

You make the sweep attack during movement. You can get out after you've made the sweep attack, depending on how fast you moved. You can then assault, since it's an open topped transport. So yes, you can assault after you've made a sweep attack.

This is a load of bull, RAW RAI whatever, you first complete move, that means staying in or disembarking, then you do the sweep attacks if you stayed in (remember the meaning of the word whilst)... You cannot move a bit, sweep, then move more and then disembark, so this will need clarification in FAQ. Under current rules you always complete actions as a whole.

Valek wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Valek wrote:

Over 9000! wrote:

Valek wrote: secondly you cant sweep and assault in the same turn that is literally mentioned in the first line of the barge rules.

Um what Codex are you reading from? Please enlighten me

p52 starts with "Whilst a character remains embarked on a Catacomb Barge..." so if you go out to charge you are no longer embarked and you cannot make sweepattacks.

You make the sweep attack during movement. You can get out after you've made the sweep attack, depending on how fast you moved. You can then assault, since it's an open topped transport. So yes, you can assault after you've made a sweep attack.

This is a load of bull, RAW RAI whatever, you first complete move, that means staying in or disembarking, then you do the sweep attacks if you stayed in (remember the meaning of the word whilst)... You cannot move a bit, sweep, then move more and then disembark, so this will need clarification in FAQ. Under current rules you always complete actions as a whole.

I don't understand, what you are not getting here, so I'm going to try spelling it out for you. You can take it to YMDC after this, even though you have already, and were shot down. There is no need for a FAQ, the rule is clear to everyone but you, and it has been explained to you in a multitude of threads, by different people.

You make your movement. During your movement, if you pass over a vehicle, you make the sweep attacks against it. This is down during the actual movement of the vehicle. If you moved less than 12', when the vehicle stops it's movement you can disembark. You can then assault

Sasori is 100% correct on this
During the move, if you pass over an enemy unit, you can sweep attack. This is part of the vehicles move, NOT the unit embarked on the vehicle. So you move the vehicle its full move, then resolve sweep, then, if you moved less than 12" you may disembark. It is open topped so the lord can then shoot AND assault, or run and not assault.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sasori is 100% correct on this
During the move, if you pass over an enemy unit, you can sweep attack. This is part of the vehicles move, NOT the unit embarked on the vehicle. So you move the vehicle its full move, then resolve sweep, then, if you moved less than 12" you may disembark. It is open topped so the lord can then shoot AND assault, or run and not assault.

More specifically, you can move the Command Barge 12", make the sweep attacks, then move the rest of your army, and at the end of all of it you can disembark the Lord. The unit inside the transport is independent of the transport itself and may complete it's move separately from the transport, and at a different point in time. There is nothing requiring you to disembark your troops immediately after their transport moves, and since the Sweep Attacks are completed during the vehicle's movement, nothing is stopping you from then disembarking after the move/sweep attacks and following it up with an assault.

Correct, I think the mentioning of the character being required was to stop people from using an empty barge for sweep attacks... It is a poorly written line, I find it quite clear but I can see why someone COULD make the argument. Either way I am sure this and the scarab conga will be clarified in the FAQ...

mercer wrote:
You're still wrong though about Assault Squads and Librarian. You said take two flamers (you need 10 guys for this) and a Librarian and pop them in a Rhino, Rhinos only carry 10 dudes, so that will not work.

I'm referring to your twin flamers in your HG

mercer wrote:The point of creating a list is to create a balanced all round list which can take on anything. List talioring is almost cheating. If you talior your list to vehicles and then play a mass infantry list then you will have massive problems.

Everyone at the FLGSs I play at create their lists on the spot...wouldn't that be considered "Tailoring"? In fact short of tournies I've never had anyone come with a premade list except for one guy who was using FW emperor's children because he liked the options for the dread. However I do see your point that if you did have a list and changed it when you found out what your opponent was playing that would be essentially cheating.

mercer wrote:And yes I know Sanguinary Priests are elites, I know Blood Angels very well, that is my own list btw. You're still not getting the point though. Honour Guard add MORE special weapons and also a Priest WHICH IS NOT A KILL POINT. As for 'squishy' 5 man units, do you seriously play Blood Angels? Angels with Priests can take a fair amount of punishment and cause some damage in assault.

I suspect we're meaning the same thing and saying it differently...because any 5 man squad is squishy without fnp, hence why I mentioned SPs in the elite so that you could fill out the troop choices to distribute the priests on a squad basis. Thank you for explaining your reasoning, especially in an annihilation game I can see how dangerous those extra KP can be. I find though that, at least in my tastes, I prefer to take more heavy armor over honor guard in my lists. To me taking those extra KP is worth it because I can stick them with a squad and hide them from shooting while adding more heavy armor instead of the points for honor guard

mercer wrote:How are Baals going to make a difference? They will totally change this list. Heavy flamers sponsons are not good at all. Honour Guard can flame a unit with double flamers and then assault after to finish the unit off. A Baal Predator will be sitting right in front of the remaining target.

Heavy flamers offer greater strength and AP, making them more efficient over standard flamers, and they are more survivable provided you moved to shoot as it will present a greater difficulty in damaging the tank over the squad. You also don't have to take heavy flamers, heavy bolters do offer greater range with the same sort of strength, but heavy flamers are also a more effective deterrent against infantry assaults, since theres a threat that as they close they'll be hit with heavy flamer templates (the same rationale that you have for putting flamers in an infantry squad).

mercer wrote:You also seem to contradict yourself. You say the assault cannons on a Baal could fire at a target besides a vehicle, but then say could fire at the tanks when they draw close . Also who is going to fire a demolisher shot and risk hitting their own squad? Honestly?

I suspect either I'm not writing clearly at all or you just see my name and dismiss what I'm saying, because I said that you can shoot the assault cannon at things besides tanks, and that you can shoot at targets that approach BA tanks, as opposed to a vindi where doing so would be completely mental for fear of damaging friendly models. You can fire at targets when they draw close to your tanks, meaning that as scarabs close on your razors you can fire at them with all the various guns on a baal...instead of trying to catch them in a large blast and risking blowing your razor and the assault squad sky high...It gives you more options from a tactical standpoint while simultaneously being around 30pts cheaper. And flexibility in a TAC list is a good thing yes?

Red Corsair wrote:Correct, I think the mentioning of the character being required was to stop people from using an empty barge for sweep attacks... It is a poorly written line, I find it quite clear but I can see why someone COULD make the argument. Either way I am sure this and the scarab conga will be clarified in the FAQ...

I am not understanding the argument on the sweep attack seems very clear to me. As to the conga line I am sure the FAQ will no longer allow for you to increase it size past the starting size of the unit like the Ghost Ark, that is unless it was intended for us to be able to swarm our opponent with a massinve wall of scarabs.

mercer wrote:
Crypteks are ok, the lance isn't that awesome, solar pulse is handy, just a shame you need two Royal Courts, though in my first game I did have two Courts.

So, why do you think you need to have two royal courts if I may ask?

Great bat-rep Mercer!

I built that mech list you weighed in on! Been workin smooth dude! You were right about Libbys, flamers and priests!

Nice Bat-rep! Pictures would have made it great though.

If I may ask did they do something horrible to the Monolith because I've read several Bat-reps with the new 'crons and have yet to see a 'lith anywhere?