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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






about the medal of honor?

By Diane Curtis
Staff Writer

At his first meeting as a board member of the Three Valleys Water District in eastern Los Angeles, Xavier Alvarez introduced himself this way: “I’m a retired Marine of 25 years. I retired in the year 2001. Back in 1987, I was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.”

Only he hadn’t been awarded the nation’s highest award for valor in action against an enemy force. The Pomona resident later admitted he never even served in the military.

The FBI obtained a recording of Alvarez’ introduction at the 2007 meeting, and Alvarez was indicted and charged with violating the 2005 Stolen Valor Act.

Under the act, it is a federal misdemeanor for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade or manufacture decorations or medals authorized by Congress for members of the armed services or to falsely represent themselves as having received such a medal or decoration. Convictions can result in up to a year in prison.

A U.S. District Court judge sentenced Alvarez to three years of probation and community service, rejecting Alvarez’ argument that the Stolen Valor Act is unconstitutional on First Amendment grounds. The First Amendment does not apply to statements the speaker knows to be false, the judge said. The Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals sided with Alvarez in his First Amendment appeal, and the case has now gone to the U.S. Supreme Court, which decided last month to hear it next year. As Veterans Day approaches, the case is attracting significant attention and causing debate among First Amendment advocates and within the military itself.

Alvarez is hardly alone in lying about fighting for the United States and receiving high honors.

The FBI reports that in 2009 alone, it was “tipped off” to more than 200 fraudulent representations. The Chicago Tribune studied obituaries and Who’s Who and compared them to military records for a 2008 series on people claiming to have received medals of valor. The investigation found that of 273 obituaries published in the last decade, four out of five claims of having received decorations for bravery were untrue. Of 333 Who’s Who declarations claiming a high military medal, a third proved to be false. Fifteen of the untrue Who’s Who claims related to receiving the Medal of Honor.

The prevaricators who will explain their behavior give a range of reasons ― they wanted to impress a wife or a neighbor or a girlfriend, they fought in a war and felt they had been denied a medal they deserved, they felt important and were asked to make speeches and attend special events. Others pretend they received medals and honors in order to profit by, for example, getting increased disability payments or other benefits accorded to medal recipients.

Michael Taylor interviewed both authentic medal winners and those who lied about receiving them in the late ‘90s as a reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle. The two groups were polar opposites, he said. Real medal winners were modest and unassuming. Those who never received the medals, who he said usually had served some time in the armed services, were loud braggarts.

One of the true recipients, Robert Pittman of Stockton, who was awarded the Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, says bona fide recipients do not consider that they got the medal just for themselves. “The medal is not ours individually,” Pittman says. “Every time there’s an act of heroism that earns a medal, on that same day, many, many other people were killed. Those are the heroes who won’t come home again.” Every time someone who did not receive the Medal of Honor claims to have received it, “it’s an insult,” he said.

Pittman was a Marine sergeant in Vietnam when his company came under fire by an enemy force much larger than his. Hearing calls for more fire power, he picked up a machine gun and several belts of ammunition and rushed forward to help his fellow Marines. All the while under fire and shooting off rounds himself, he silenced one large group, kept firing and moving ahead and destroyed two enemy automatic weapons. Then he learned there were more wounded Marines up ahead. He continued forward, shooting while being confronted by more than 30 enemy soldiers. He took a place in the middle of the trail and continued shooting, first with his own machine gun, then with an enemy’s submachine gun and a pistol seized from a fallen comrade. He continued firing until the enemy withdrew.

When asked what should be done with fake Medal of Honor recipients, Pittman’s first reaction was, “They should be shot.” But what he really believes, he says, is that the Stolen Valor Act should remain in effect and those guilty of violating it should be sent to Veterans Administration hospitals “where they can see veterans and what veterans suffer for their country. ”

If the court doesn’t uphold the Stolen Valor Act, Pittman said, “you’re just slapping these guys on the wrist and telling them it’s okay to lie . . . There’s got to be some punishment.” When former Congressman John Salazar, a Colorado Democrat, introduced the Stolen Valor Act in 2005, he said, “Medal recipients are often too humble to parade their honors. By letting the phonies continue their masquerade, we diminish the honor of our true heroes. ”

Not infrequently, the impostors trip themselves up. Pittman said he ran into someone wearing a slew of medals, including the Purple Heart and Navy Cross ― in the wrong spot on the uniform. Taylor, the former Chronicle reporter, said he knew of someone who claimed to have rescued more than 50 stranded American troops during the Korean War in December of 1953. The conflict ended in July 1953 and the kind of plane the pretender said he was flying carried only two people.

In its 2-1 ruling, Judge Milan Smith, Jr., writing for the majority, said that while “deliberate and despicable,” Alvarez’ lie is protected by the First Amendment, just as are many everyday lies. “There would be no constitutional bar to criminalizing lying about one’s height, weight, age or financial status on Match.com or Facebook, or falsely representing to one’s mother that one does not smoke, drink alcoholic beverages, is a virgin or has not exceeded the speed limit while driving on the freeway,” if the Stolen Valor Act were held constitutional, he wrote. “The sad fact is, most people lie about some aspects of their lives from time to time. . . .

“The right to speak and write whatever one chooses ― including, to some degree, worthless, offensive and demonstrable untruths ― without cowering in fear of a powerful government is, in our view, an essential component of the protection afforded by the First Amendment. The greatest damage done seems to be to the reputations of the liars themselves,” wrote Smith.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado also has ruled that the Stolen Valor Act is unconstitutional because it violates freedom of speech. A federal court in Virginia has ruled the opposite.

In a dissent in the California case, Judge Jay Bybee disagreed that false speech is constitutionally protected. “Knowing lies are unprotected by the First Amendment,” he wrote. “Until the Supreme Court tells us otherwise, the proper target for the majority’s concern is the legislature, not this court.”

He also took issue with the majority contention that no one was harmed, except, possibly Alvarez himself in loss of his reputation, by his fraudulent claims. “Alvarez’ statements dishonor every Congressional Medal of Honor winner, every service member who has been decorated in any way and every American now serving.”


So Freedom of Spech or not? I'm military so I'm going to be biased enough to say "3 years in a federal pen"


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Canada

I remember when the act was first passed and they cited a statistic that there are more phony Medals of Honour than there are real ones. But it applied to actual medals. I know it's illegal to impersonate certain individuals for personal gain, so maybe this falls more under that.

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Sheffield, UK

Yeah, wearing medals, uniforms and rank insignia that are not your own without good reason is a crime here too.

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Beijing

George Spiggott wrote:Yeah, wearing medals, uniforms and rank insignia that are not your own without good reason is a crime here too.


Dressing up would be a bit like impersonating a police officer, that is certainly illegal.

Merely claiming medals, well if you did that to get work it's rather like lying on a CV. It's fraud and immediate grounds for dismissal. If you claim medals and ranks you never had to get money from any source like charities or some funding groups, it's fraud. Again, a criminal offence.
   
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Great Britain

Howard A Treesong wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:Yeah, wearing medals, uniforms and rank insignia that are not your own without good reason is a crime here too.


Dressing up would be a bit like impersonating a police officer, that is certainly illegal.

Merely claiming medals, well if you did that to get work it's rather like lying on a CV. It's fraud and immediate grounds for dismissal. If you claim medals and ranks you never had to get money from any source like charities or some funding groups, it's fraud. Again, a criminal offence.


Walt's are an insult, I don't know anybody who wouldn't have a problem with bopping them over the head.

With the charity I work for it also makes a lot more work since someone has to check and make sure if they're entitled to our help.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Jihadin wrote:
So Freedom of Spech or not? I'm military so I'm going to be biased enough to say "3 years in a federal pen"



Deportation via catapult or trebuchet.

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.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/12 06:58:20


 
   
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Great Britain

kronk wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
So Freedom of Spech or not? I'm military so I'm going to be biased enough to say "3 years in a federal pen"



Deportation via catapult or trebuchet.


YES

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in gb
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Yvan eht nioj






In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg

I seem to remember a case that featured in The Sun (a daily tabloid newspaper over here) of a bloke claiming to be a Falklands vet, I think it was. I think he claimed to be ex-SAS or Para reg (one of those, the usual suspects - funny how many ex-SAS members you bump into!) and he was caught marching with the British Legion on a remembrance parade with a bunch of medals on his chest that he'd bought off Ebay. Obviously, getting called out in The Sun quite dampened any lust for glory he might have had.

I also recall seeing a website about an ex-SEAL who has made it his lives work to expose people claiming to be former SEALs. He visits them and straight up confronts them and everything - excellent web viewing!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess if you are going to balls out lie about being in the military, you aren't going to make up a stint in the REME or Loggies or something!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 19:28:20


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WARORK93 wrote:Even if it wasn't illegal, its still a total d-bag thing to do and shows that the person in question has zero respect for veterans...


Not necessarily, any more than someone claiming qualifications they do not actually posses demonstrates "zero respect" for people who earned those qualifications...

   
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Howard A Treesong wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:Yeah, wearing medals, uniforms and rank insignia that are not your own without good reason is a crime here too.


Dressing up would be a bit like impersonating a police officer, that is certainly illegal.

Merely claiming medals, well if you did that to get work it's rather like lying on a CV. It's fraud and immediate grounds for dismissal. If you claim medals and ranks you never had to get money from any source like charities or some funding groups, it's fraud. Again, a criminal offence.


No it isnt. There is even a protocol for wearing medals that are not your own. You wear therm on the opposite side of the chest.

Impersonating a police officer is a crime, it more or less stops there. If you masqueraded as something you are not to gain something you might be done under attempting to gain goods by deception, but not for having a disguise.

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UK

I'm a military man, but I don't agree with Jihadin, I mean.. I dont know... unless you actually use your position to defraud someone, how can it be a crime?

If you use the uniform to do some actually illegal gak, then it should be more harshly punished, but at the end of the day.. being a lying bastard isn't, and cant be a crime on its own.

I mean, most blokes aren't as awesome as me. If they need to wear a green beret and tell tall tales get more ass than a toilet seat like me, well that's their business.

Curse the spineless cowards!

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
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Great Britain

There are loads. ARRSE (British Army Rumour Service) has a list on its wiki. Quite a few amusing ones on there.
A brilliant one is a guy who claimed he's a Para, said he loves it etc on ARRSE (Walting with actual members of the military is never a good idea). Turns out one of the posters on there was his DSgt. at Basic so we got the real story. He turned up for Basic wearing webbing stuffed with random pieces of kit, and when it came to doing PT on an assault course he cried at the section suspended above the ground. He was also always late back from leave. The DSgt. was pretty unhappy that he'd been allowed to get so far into training but eventually they kicked him out, which resulted in his mother phoning up. Apparently he'd told her that they were being rushed through training to support Ops. Odd bloke, but largely harmless, apart from the waste of taxpayer's money.

Unfortunately there are also cases where walts cheat people out of money, claiming they're collecting for charity.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Actually in the movies on those wearing full dress uniforms (military always check the hooah stuff on other chest and cmpare) not everything is within standards...if the badly in need of a haircut doesn't give it away

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UK

Lux_Lucis wrote:

Unfortunately there are also cases where walts cheat people out of money, claiming they're collecting for charity.


Yeah see, fethers like that want the book throwing at them, but as I said, that's an actual crime.

If your merely a sad fether who likes dressing up and telling lies, how can that be a "crime"?

Men are allowed to bs, its legal. And lets be honest, most actual soldiers bs endlessly, where do you draw the line?

The amount of squaddies and sailors ive met claiming to be SF/commando/under water knife fighters or something is ridiculous, and you can always blatantly tell they are bullshitting. But you just .. well.. call them a sad fether and walk off, its hardly a punishable offence is it?

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
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Beijing

Orlanth wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:Yeah, wearing medals, uniforms and rank insignia that are not your own without good reason is a crime here too.


Dressing up would be a bit like impersonating a police officer, that is certainly illegal.

Merely claiming medals, well if you did that to get work it's rather like lying on a CV. It's fraud and immediate grounds for dismissal. If you claim medals and ranks you never had to get money from any source like charities or some funding groups, it's fraud. Again, a criminal offence.


No it isnt. There is even a protocol for wearing medals that are not your own. You wear therm on the opposite side of the chest.


Phew, good job I didn't say "wearing medals" then. I said impersonating and claiming them as your own to get money. I'm well aware relatives wear them for remembrance and the like.
   
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Great Britain

mattyrm wrote:
Lux_Lucis wrote:

Unfortunately there are also cases where walts cheat people out of money, claiming they're collecting for charity.


Yeah see, fethers like that want the book throwing at them, but as I said, that's an actual crime.

If your merely a sad fether who likes dressing up and telling lies, how can that be a "crime"?

Men are allowed to bs, its legal. And lets be honest, most actual soldiers bs endlessly, where do you draw the line?

The amount of squaddies and sailors ive met claiming to be SF/commando/under water knife fighters or something is ridiculous, and you can always blatantly tell they are bullshitting. But you just .. well.. call them a sad fether and walk off, its hardly a punishable offence is it?


True, every pub in Hereford has them from what I hear and they're always the man on the balcony. And somebody always claims to know Andy McNab.

Personally I find it insulting, especially those buggers who walk with veterans in parades.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Has it been made a crime?

If not, it isn't a crime, though obviously it's reprehensible.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Kilkrazy wrote:Has it been made a crime?

If not, it isn't a crime, though obviously it's reprehensible.


According to the article, it is in the US. I haven't heard of this act. Or, at least, I don't recall its passing.

2005 Stolen Valor Act.

Under the act, it is a federal misdemeanor for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade or manufacture decorations or medals authorized by Congress for members of the armed services or to falsely represent themselves as having received such a medal or decoration. Convictions can result in up to a year in prison.

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Manchester UK

It has a silly name, I know that. 'Stolen Valor' sounds like Jean-Paul Galtier man-perfume or something....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 21:01:35


 Cheesecat wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Albatross far too often these days...

I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Okay, so the male version of "Cougar" is now officially "Albatross".
 
   
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Great Britain

Albatross wrote:It has a silly name, I know that. 'Stolen Valor' sounds like Jean-Paul Galtier man-perfume or something....


I like

Then again, it's more poignant than most British Acts.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




filbert wrote:I

I also recall seeing a website about an ex-SEAL who has made it his lives work to expose people claiming to be former SEALs. He visits them and straight up confronts them and everything - excellent web viewing!

[


That's Captain Larry Bailey, here's his web site: http://www.navyfrogmen.com/Bailey.html

I saw in part what happens when he goes after a fake Seal. There was a gaming website a few years back that this guy and his son would frequent, and the guy was always talking about his exploits as a Seal in Viet Nam. It was one tale of heroism after another with this guy, as he continually wowed the 14 year olds. Add the cherry on top that this guy and his kid were dicks to anyone who disagreed withbanything they said, and it was only a matter of time for someone who knew about him to call Larry Bailey on this douche.
He ended up posting the imposter on "The Wall of Shame" , among other things, and the claims of being a Seal quickly vanished from the gaming web site this guy ran.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Troll Slayer





Great Britain

There's a guy on the ARRSE wiki who managed to end up advising several foreign governments on anti-terrorism strategies. He claimed he was ex-SAS when really I think at most he'd been ATC.
He then bought one of those rubbish Scottish noble titles and now claims he's a Duke or something... Think he still offers security training or something.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Manchester UK

Lux_Lucis wrote:
Albatross wrote:It has a silly name, I know that. 'Stolen Valor' sounds like Jean-Paul Galtier man-perfume or something....


I like

Then again, it's more poignant than most British Acts.

Yeah, I find that annoying though. It's like, do you really need to include crude appeals to emotion in your fething laws, too? Sheesh!

Couldn't they have just called it the Military Decoration Fraud Act?

 Cheesecat wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Albatross far too often these days...

I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Okay, so the male version of "Cougar" is now officially "Albatross".
 
   
Made in us
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On a boat, Trying not to die.

It's impersonating (I think) a civil servant.

Which is a crime in the States.

Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats. 
   
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Great Britain

True. I've always had a massive problem with the name PATRIOT Act, especially given its contents.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in gb
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Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Chowderhead wrote:It's impersonating (I think) a civil servant.

Which is a crime in the States.


Does that mean you put people who are really unhelpful on a day to day basis behind bars?

   
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Patriot Act is a wee bit different...

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
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Great Britain

Jihadin wrote:Patriot Act is a wee bit different...


I know, I was just talking about the name. It would be much much more dry if it was a British Act. And probably very long and not acronym friendly.

"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.

Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."

I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.


Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.

 Fafnir wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This....
To me in doesn't embody one of the most feared Orkz of all time..it just comes across as saying " Hey!! Gimme your milk money!!"


And how does that NOT embody one of the most feared orkz of all time?
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

kronk wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Has it been made a crime?

If not, it isn't a crime, though obviously it's reprehensible.


According to the article, it is in the US. I haven't heard of this act. Or, at least, I don't recall its passing.

2005 Stolen Valor Act.

Under the act, it is a federal misdemeanor for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade or manufacture decorations or medals authorized by Congress for members of the armed services or to falsely represent themselves as having received such a medal or decoration. Convictions can result in up to a year in prison.


There you are then.

How do you get a licence to be a medals collector?

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
 
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