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Having been rather less than impressed with the infantry choices in the Necron Elites section I was trying to find a suitably elite unit to field in my army, since its a largely shooty army there was little that took my fancy (deathmarks are a little hit and miss). Then I considered taking a second overlord in order to field a full 5 man squad of Crypteks of Destruction as an anti-tank/heavy unit that can fire on the move.

The models would run to about 175 points for the units so I was wondering if anyone had tried this as a unit, and if it was viable in a 1000 point or lower list due to its relative high cost.

Obviously popping a tank or two would make back its cost immediately, and compared to the base 200 points for either lychguard/praetorians it seems to be able to trump either of them with minimal effort.

The key drawback I have found is that I would need to either:

a) Take a second overlord to field a full 5
b) Remove all of my current royal court from the squads they escort (less fond of this option)

So... what do you think?

Such a squad would be rather vulnerable. As soon as the enemy recognizes it, it will be targeted and has no ablative wound.
I'd stick it into a transport but Crytpek squads have no transport option. Nevertheless, they could embark into a Ghost Ark at first turn.

wuestenfux wrote:Such a squad would be rather vulnerable. As soon as the enemy recognizes it, it will be targeted and has no ablative wound.
I'd stick it into a transport but Crytpek squads have an transport option. Nevertheless, they could embark into a Ghost Ark at first turn.

This.

I run them with 4 HofDest and 1 Harp in a GA. They can pretty reliably punch through any vehicle in the game with this load out.

In Nemesor lists another option I've started using is:
1 HofDespair w/Veil
3 HofStorms
1 HofEternity w/crono

180 points.
Seems a bit unorthodox but the chrono is their to add reliability to the veil, and then you drop tank hunters on those 12 haywire shots and just about any vehicle in the game dies fast.

Royal courts can be treated like devastator squads with the bonus that they don't use up force org slots; depending on the point limit, a royal court can be a good Anti-tank, anti-infantry, or a relatively effective death star.

HoD's bring a solar pulse with them, which is a great way to guarantee at least 1 turn of un-answered shooting; but they do fold to assault without lord support, which can be pricey. Sticking them in ghost ark is a great solution, especially with a shield of warriors wrapped around them; but now you're entering territory of building a list around them.

Sticking a VoD in the squad is a great idea, but i'm not sure if the HoE with chronometron is adding enough to the squad; and the VoD-Tek's abyssal staff might be a good deterrent but can't really be relied upon until maybe late game, when all transports have already been dealt with and the Court becomes expendable. Combining them with the nemessor's gift of Tank Hunters seems like a good idea, but those haywire shots are only 12", which means that disembarked troops can assault the Crypteks. I'd feel very nervous about running that config unless it's in a giant court deathstar.

The vod toting cryptek would help with flexibility of movement, but I'm literally scraping my points limit with the 4 teks already, would the vod be enough to justify losing the extra destruction cryptek

go with 2x4 or 5 lancer cryps. an excellent choice for everything. they are almost fragile but are excellent for duelling with enemy AT/MCs/ termis etc.

if you combine them with a Ctan with writhing, it really gets the most out of them. enemy is out of cover = about 3 dead models a turn.

i prefer to keep my lancers out of a squad as it means that vs vehicles the troops shooting is often wasted.

put them in a warriors ark and they are pretty solid.

ShadarLogoth wrote:Seems a bit unorthodox but the chrono is their to add reliability to the veil, and then you drop tank hunters on those 12 haywire shots and just about any vehicle in the game dies fast.

I'm not sure that works the way you think it does. Tank Hunters adds to the penetration roll, but the Haywire affect is not a penetration roll. You still get the straight roll for that. So, you're just turning them into S6 Haywire. Certainly nice, but not spectacular.

somerandomdude wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:Seems a bit unorthodox but the chrono is their to add reliability to the veil, and then you drop tank hunters on those 12 haywire shots and just about any vehicle in the game dies fast.

I'm not sure that works the way you think it does. Tank Hunters adds to the penetration roll, but the Haywire affect is not a penetration roll. You still get the straight roll for that. So, you're just turning them into S6 Haywire. Certainly nice, but not spectacular.

That's a good question. I re-read the BRB and Haywire rules pretty carefully the other night and I'm pretty sure it works the way I'm thinking. Tank hunters doesn't say "+1 strength" it says "add one the your armour penetration role." In the case of the Haywire, the 1 for nothing, 2-5 for glance, and 6+ for penetration is the armour penetration role, so if you add one to it, a 5 becomes a 6, a 1 becomes a 2 (I literally just thought about that part, you basically are guaranteeing at least a glance with each successful hit...hmmm).

I certainly could be wrong, but I think that's right. Also as haywire is AP - so it wouldn't exactly make it overpowered, just very reliable suppression.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:Seems a bit unorthodox but the chrono is their to add reliability to the veil, and then you drop tank hunters on those 12 haywire shots and just about any vehicle in the game dies fast.

I'm not sure that works the way you think it does. Tank Hunters adds to the penetration roll, but the Haywire affect is not a penetration roll. You still get the straight roll for that. So, you're just turning them into S6 Haywire. Certainly nice, but not spectacular.

That's a good question. I re-read the BRB and Haywire rules pretty carefully the other night and I'm pretty sure it works the way I'm thinking. Tank hunters doesn't say "+1 strength" it says "add one the your armour penetration role." In the case of the Haywire, the 1 for nothing, 2-5 for glance, and 6+ for penetration is the armour penetration role, so if you add one to it, a 5 becomes a 6, a 1 becomes a 2 (I literally just thought about that part, you basically are guaranteeing at least a glance with each successful hit...hmmm).

I certainly could be wrong, but I think that's right. Also as haywire is AP - so it wouldn't exactly make it overpowered, just very reliable suppression.

Pretty much Tank Hunters gives you AP1 (thats how I word it) against vehicles...

I'd put it as a matter of interpretation but your roll is pretty much a check to see if you score a penetrating/glancing hit, and therefore can be interpreted as a penetration roll that doesn't take into account the targets armour.

Though I have a feeling that this will be FAQ'd as a "special" attack and not a penetration roll and therefore not stackable with Tank Hunter

It does however make a squad of VODing crypteks of 1 despair 4 storm interesting as a massive haywire unit.

Edit:

Which of the following therefore would be determined to be most effective:

4 x Cryptek of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse

OR

1 x Cryptek of Despair, VOD
4 x Cryptek of the Storm.

With the aim of tank hunting, and bearing in mind there is already a solar pulse in the list, both choices costing the same.

Zid wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:Seems a bit unorthodox but the chrono is their to add reliability to the veil, and then you drop tank hunters on those 12 haywire shots and just about any vehicle in the game dies fast.

I'm not sure that works the way you think it does. Tank Hunters adds to the penetration roll, but the Haywire affect is not a penetration roll. You still get the straight roll for that. So, you're just turning them into S6 Haywire. Certainly nice, but not spectacular.

That's a good question. I re-read the BRB and Haywire rules pretty carefully the other night and I'm pretty sure it works the way I'm thinking. Tank hunters doesn't say "+1 strength" it says "add one the your armour penetration role." In the case of the Haywire, the 1 for nothing, 2-5 for glance, and 6+ for penetration is the armour penetration role, so if you add one to it, a 5 becomes a 6, a 1 becomes a 2 (I literally just thought about that part, you basically are guaranteeing at least a glance with each successful hit...hmmm).

I certainly could be wrong, but I think that's right. Also as haywire is AP - so it wouldn't exactly make it overpowered, just very reliable suppression.

Pretty much Tank Hunters gives you AP1 (thats how I word it) against vehicles...

I think that would be the damage roll, not the penetration roll, but again I certainly could be wrong. Haven't actually dealt with Tank Hunter a lot over the years.

Personally, I do not like the idea of keeping all of those Crypteks together in the Royal Court. They just don't have enough durability to support their position as such a high-priority target. I generally field 6x Harbingers of Destruction spread across three units of troops (preferably Immortals) and just use their anti-tank from everywhere. Focus fire just does not work against that tactic. Likewise, I field 2x Harbingers of Despair spread across two units of Deathmarks, each with a VoD, and have found them to work very well.

Any time the Crypteks can be singled out, they will be. I have only found them to be useful beyond the first turn when I can bury them within the troops, and thus spreading my hard-hitting models around evenly: when your opponent has to decide between 8 targets (3x troops w/ HoD, 2x Heavy/Destroyer units & 3x Annihilation Barges), you're going to get a lot more longevity out of them than you will if they're all in one neat little package. Plus, the Crypteks get to have wounds allocated away from them when they're attached to your troops, whereas the first wound the Royal Court takes will knock off a Cryptek.

Azazel, I have my troops choices currently all escorted by members of the royal court/phaeron, literally 1 per unit at the moment to fill them out.

My choice of a cryptek squad is as an alternative to the more pricey elite choices (praetorian, lychguard) as I'm already sporting tomb blades as opposed to destroyers, and a barge. I dislike the barge kit after assembling both a command and annihilation so the concept of assembling a further 2 is not something I'd consider in a 1000 point list.

Azazel have you tried dropping the court in a GA and hiding it behind other GA's (or Monos if you got them). 13 Armor + a 4+ cover save takes so much fire-power that I almost want my opponent shooting at it, plus when it pops they can nestle in the wreckage for a cover save (and of course their RP with ever-living).

They still might die, but not without you opponent pouring a disproportionate amount of fire-power into them, which is a win win.

Heh, I hear ya on the barge. I'm not a fan of their design either, and they are unquestionably the most annoying 40k model that I have ever put together. But they're just so good that I can't forsake them.

I honestly think that I would consider taking the Triarch Stalker rather than the royal court, if you're sticking just to the elite slot and are opposed to Deathmarks (these are still my pick for the Elite FOC slot). I just do not like investing that many points into a single unit that is as fragile as the Crypteks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadarLogoth wrote:Azazel have you tried dropping the court in a GA and hiding it behind other GA's (or Monos if you got them). 13 Armor + a 4+ cover save takes so much fire-power that I almost want my opponent shooting at it, plus when it pops they can nestle in the wreckage for a cover save (and of course their RP with ever-living).

They still might die, but not without you opponent pouring a disproportionate amount of fire-power into them, which is a win win.

The survivability of the Ghost Ark is identical to that of the Annihilation barges; they have the same AV 11 all around and QS.

Your suggestion is still a very viable option, but the reason I never do that is because the cost of putting 5x Lanceteks in a Ghost Ark is 290 points, with 5x shots of Str 8 at 36" range and 5x shots at Str 4 AP 5 with a 24" range. Well, for 270 points I can have 12x TL shots of Str 7 and 6x shots at Str 5 AP 3 all at 24". The firepower just doesn't compare to the triple Annihilation Barge option.

This is one of the reasons I don't own any Ghost Arks (and also the fact that I only seem to use Immortals for my Troops choice nowadays).

Don't get me wrong: I can definitely see a Royal Court full of Lanceteks in an Ghost Ark in addition to the 3x Annihilation Barges, but not as a substitution. I just don't think you're getting anywhere near the return on your points cost that you do from the Annihilation Barge.

And originally I was running Warriors behind Monoliths with Lanceteks peeking out to shoot and make use of the unit's cover save (see below), but I've come to prefer just using the Annihilation Barges and then Immortals & Lanceteks for a more run & gun style shooty army. And the cost difference between the Monolith vs 2x Barges pays for the upgrade from 5x Warriors to 5x Immortals, which cannot be understated.

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Triarch Stalker may well trump the cryptek squad concept when its model finally comes out (Its on the list of models I'm not touching a conversion on with a barge pole). Deathmarks seem very hit and miss to me (Yes the guy wanting to slap a 160 point cryptek squad on a list finds deathmarks hit and miss), much as I love the model I just dislike the short range on a sniper weapon with no ap.

Deathmarks are about volume of fire. They're less the sniper-rifle-headshot-from-a-mile-away kind of assassins, and more the walk-up-and-unload-a-Mac-10-into-their-chest kind of assassins. When they shoot 10 times, hit 8.3 and wound 6.9, they usually won't need AP. ...Also, don't normal sniper rifles have terrible AP?

Try a squad with a Harbinger of Despair for a game, and make sure you attempt your VoD with balls of steel, and you'll see that they pay off.

Yup, sorry that was just listing off my dislikes. All snipers have terrible ap but I believe some give you a longer range.

But most don't deepstrike or can have a VoD attached.

Or rapid fire!

I was thinking about this for some time actually.
The recost of the warriors and their variable purpose / survivability given all the synergies the new codex offers them has been on my mind. I really want to know where the court options, warriors and arks are overcosted, and where they are doing a fine job.

In my mulling I wanted to make a low point list that used arks as accessories for court and HQ unit's to do their jobs effectively, and that would take running a lot of warriors to get minimum troops in there too, as well as feeling like I got my ark's points working for me.

What I came up with was a lot more points than I figured it would be, and oddly, looking janky and streamlined at the same time. I'd love to test it out if only for a laugh.


Ghost Ark
- Warriors Squad (5 strong)
- Necron Overlord w/ Warscythe and Mindshacklers
- Necron Lord w/ Warscythe and Mindshacklers
...355 points

Ghost Ark
- Harbingers of Destruction (3 strong)
- Harbinger of eternity w/ chronometron
...260 points

Warrior Blob
- Warriors Squad (18 strong)
- Harbinger of Despair w/ Veil of Darkness
- Necron Lord w/ Warsctythe, Mindshacklers, Resurrection Orb
...355 points

all that for 999! Well, it's actually not a lot but it's really cute and looks like its headed in an interesting direction.
You've got 33 Necron wounds on the table, all of which are subject of reanimation protocols and 23 of which can be raised by the arks. You have 2 AV13 tanks. You have 43 Gauss Flayers (okay 33 if you only count one side of the ark). You have 7 strength 7 attacks as printed. You have an awful lot of mobility. You've reliable anti tank/mc/terminators shooting that doesn't require you to sacrifice very much glancing small arms fire to do it's job. Buuuuuuuut you don't have much of anything that you'd usually like to check off when making an army before you felt safe.

This does look like a fun base or idea to get the ball rolling though. I really like how well this makes use of the HQ slot. I hate when they just feel like nannies in this codex. I want to be able to really take heart in the core force organization chart stuff and feel like I have something that allows me to be aggressive. I'd want more scoring though. That would make me really happy. Giving the warrior blob relentless would feel good too. I can't tell you how uncomfortable it is that the list only has 3 strength 8 guns though. Especially given that at 1000 you feel normal having 3x Annihilation Barge + 20 immortals + ???.

I'm not sure what to think, but you guys are pretty smart, and probably better at thinking about what is good than I am (I get really caught up on what feels good/ what looks cute) One of those expensive court heavy squads could be cut. It might mess with how thoroughly you can make use of your mandatory HQ, but that might not be a big deal. You could also go less Ark/ warrior heavy, but they really help enable your HQ units to do something special. It's all very expensive though I could see the ark full of crypteks along side a blob of warriors or two and a bargelord looking good. Especially if you could work some wraiths or more barges in there.

Love to find a way to make better use of the chronometron too.

Your suggestion is still a very viable option, but the reason I never do that is because the cost of putting 5x Lanceteks in a Ghost Ark is 290 points, with 5x shots of Str 8 at 36" range and 5x shots at Str 4 AP 5 with a 24" range. Well, for 270 points I can have 12x TL shots of Str 7 and 6x shots at Str 5 AP 3 all at 24". The firepower just doesn't compare to the triple Annihilation Barge option.

You could do both, 2 Overloards in CCB, 3 Annihilation Barges, and 2x 5 Lanceteks in Ghost Arks. Add some Warriors and Immortals and you have a viable list at the 1750 pt level.

I was thinking of a list exactly like that wuesenfux. I don't play Necrons, but I was looking at the codex trying to come up with something good. However, there is a difference: I put in doom scythes instead of annihilation barges. The reason is simple : 2 solar flares will promote opponents moving towards you. This should allow for some nice S10 hits across multiple vehicles. If he spreads out, you can hit a flank. I think the Doom scythes might support a double Destroteck style army better.

Remember each Cryptek is a Kill point, i think, so against a battle cannon its basically a game loss in Anhillation, one shot for 5 Kill points?? Ouch!

Orkaswampa wrote:Remember each Cryptek is a Kill point, i think, so against a battle cannon its basically a game loss in Anhillation, one shot for 5 Kill points?? Ouch!

Ummm no. edit: They are not ICs.

Orkaswampa wrote:Remember each Cryptek is a Kill point, i think, so against a battle cannon its basically a game loss in Anhillation, one shot for 5 Kill points?? Ouch!

If you keep them together, they are simply one unit: a Royal Court. 1 KP. Those split off to join squads don't grant additional KPs either.