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What would expect a grey knight player to field at 650 points? I may have a game against them in the near future and have no idea what to expect to see, or what the units can bring to the table

Cheers,

Kitch

Knights don't work that well at low points, so you might see a champion with a few strike squads or maybe a Crowe army.

If he plays henchmen, probably Crusaders and Deathcult in chimeras with a Techmarine. Tech gives them lots of grenades, Crusaders provide ablative wounds and Deathcult hammers you with I5 attacks. And they all have power weapons.

I'll be chopping em up with de, am I best focussing on ranged fire power or close combat? Or do I need to do the hard thing and sort both?!

Cheers for your reply bud, any thoughts on the number of models he could bring, and the gak they can put out per turn? A shotgun question I know, just have to ask

Henchman, Purifiers(kinda hurting due to possible lack of transports), or regular strike squads will give you the most models but henchamn will prob be the best all around.

this really depends on what he takes, foot slogging purifiers are going to cut you down if you roll witches or warriors. You need to build to his weakness. The best of witch would be his poor range. Most GK cap out at 24in. So roll fast stuff with 36in range. Now kill off the rifle dread if he has one and play cat and mouse the rest of the game

You really wanna footslog with +3 armor? or do you want a few accolytes in a razorback with psyammo? razorback will shred the purifiers.

By god, I can't believe how hard I'm finding it to write a non spammy list! It's nigh impossible! I've just writteb one option out that gives me 16 models! I must be doing something wrong here...

Anybody here mind if I pm them my lists so far for critique?

You just have to pick roles for your troops and units. You have to look at anti tank, anti troops, and movement.

Draigo wrote:You really wanna footslog with +3 armor? or do you want a few accolytes in a razorback with psyammo? razorback will shred the purifiers.

At 650, yes. I would absolutely run purifiers on foot.

Very few codex have the luxury of transports under 1000pts. And GK are no exception. What are you going to do when your psybacks are dark lanced off the tablet? Walk your assassins around the table? When it comes down to it DE transports are better then razorbacks for a number or reasons I'm not going to get in to now .

Even tiny squads of dca in spammed razorbacks the 650 point cap is going to be very restricting.

Venom spam has more range and will shred your purifers whm you will have less of and never be in range. At least razorbacks are cheaper, faster and better range.

asuming you are going to see venom spam.

Your opponent is going to know all options at this low point total. A venom spam would tear up purifier spam. But the DE player is also going to know there sure to lose with a Venom when facing any armor at all.

Venom spam is one of the most common tournament builds for de so yes id assume to see them.

Slater wrote:Knights don't work that well at low points.

Well this is just plain wrong. Having placed high at several low point tournaments with them I can say they work just fine. Crowe lists in particular are pretty scary and Coteaz lists have a certain niche at lower points that is avoidable in bigger games.

From the little I know of my opponent, I'm expecting mostly power armour and inquisition forces, but no special characters.

I've never gamed de before, how effective are splinter weapons against gk?

Draigo wrote:Venom spam is one of the most common tournament builds for de so yes id assume to see them.

If your only knowledge of Competitive DE is from the forums I can see how you would say this. But in practice venom spam only works with a fair amount of blasters and dark lances, both being very difficult to acheave at 650.

komosunder wrote:

Draigo wrote:Venom spam is one of the most common tournament builds for de so yes id assume to see them.

If your only knowledge of Competitive DE is from the forums I can see how you would say this. But in practice venom spam only works with a fair amount of blasters and dark lances, both being very difficult to acheave at 650.

Tell me about it...!

komosunder wrote:

Draigo wrote:Venom spam is one of the most common tournament builds for de so yes id assume to see them.

If your only knowledge of Competitive DE is from the forums I can see how you would say this. But in practice venom spam only works with a fair amount of blasters and dark lances, both being very difficult to acheave at 650.

Or if thats what you see a lot.. Sarcasm doesnt make your point any better unless you play tourneys in every city all year which I find unlikely. So maybe you should save it for somewhere where it matters.

This thread amuses me no end i just posted similar on anpther forum.

Draigo, Como, you have differences of opinion, both are valid, lets not turn this thread into a slag fest shall we?

Damn you Malleus! I know it was a bit stupid of me to post the question on here but... well... I have no excuse...

Right, I'm off forum trawling to find the thread you've put up lmao

I think at 650pts. it gets harder to predict what you'll be facing in some aspects which in turn, forces you to play a more "balanced" list.

For example, a 650 Grey Knight list would most logically be led by an inquisitor or 2 with a henchmen warband each and the rest in Strike/purifiers and transports. (You said no SC.)

I'd maybe take Draigo's advice regarding trying to stay farther back than his shooting, i.e, 30+" just for the simple fact that many Grey Knight builds will out-shoot you in terms of effectiveness.

Perhaps take into consideration running a wych list led by Haemonculous' in Raiders. Considering the fact that he will most likely have a low-model count then perhaps forcing as many saves as you can on him is the way to go?

Good luck,

Iranna.

Remember that Purifiers and Henchmen are NOT troops choices unless you have Crowe or Coteaz in your list.

Grey Templar wrote:Remember that Purifiers and Henchmen are NOT troops choices unless you have Crowe or Coteaz in your list.

Ahhh, if this is so then expect strike squads in place of purifiers, perhaps terminators.

Iranna.

Coteaz isnt bad for those sice he and the henchman are cheap. GK are gonna have very low model count and struggle in 3+ objective games. An army of 3 squads of ork boyz Id think at this pt value would be a tough matchup to watch out for.

650 is hard to pidgeonhole. One thing I'd consider is the following:

OM Inquisitor in Terminator Armor
- Daemonhammer
- Psycannon

OM Inquisitor in Terminator Armor
- Daemonhammer
- Psycannon

5 Terminators with psybolt ammo
- Psycannon/Sword
- SB/Sword
- SB/Haliberd
- SB/Haliberd
- SB/Daemonhammer

5 Terminators with psybolt ammo
- Psycannon/Sword
- SB/Sword
- SB/Haliberd
- SB/Haliberd
- SB/Daemonhammer

My frame of mind is to try to capitalize on the probability that my opponent simply couldn't deal with that many 2+ saves. This also gives me 4 relentless psycannons, 2 hammers per squad, and some passable melee capability.

Well the list I'm taking at the moment is as follows; (like I say I need the experience of playing rather then trying to win....at least for the first couple of games) and going for a nice balanced list as I'll be running it against all comers and seems like a nice start to expand upon.

HQ
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - unsure of load out at the moment but got 20 points to spend

Elites
9 Warrior Acolytes, 6 Bolt Guns, 3 plasma\melta\flamer\combi (not decided) in Rhino

Troops
5GKSS, Hammer, Psycannon, Razorback, Psybolt
5GKSS, Hammer, Psycannon, Razorback, Psybolt

Heavy
5 Purgation Squad, 4 Incinerators, Razorback, Psybolt

10 Guard Equivalent
15 Marines
4 Tanks

Damn it, you just had to go and post that didn't you, now you're appealing to my sense of honour and I feel like I should post the list that I've just written out now, before reading this. I'm the same, need the gaming experience.... but... yeah, I do wana win lol

So what do you say, I post the list that I've just written up & we agree to keep our lists as displayed here, for better or worse, til numerous explosions do them part? Those tanks of yours are making me sketchy already!


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Edit: Specific info on those tanks wanted first!

Sounds fair, although I have to decide on 3 guns on the henchmen and my Hq's equipment

p.s. Its my Psycannons that you need to worry about Heavy 4 rending!

How's about you decide what that lot'll be first, then I'll post my force? (Reckon my arse is grass either way so not sure why I'm holding out, but whatever )

This is just a 650 point game right? That seems like so much more than I can field for the points cost lol

Sounds fine to me

Yes 650 points, no special characters.

I'm predicting

Haemi
Archon
Warriors in raider
Wyches in raider

thats pretty much it

What an idiot... I misreadyour summary of numbers included to be other units that you were taking that you'd not decided on... my god...

Ok, here's my list. I've done everything I can think of to steer clear of spammy lists or predictability

HQ

Haemonculus, mind phase gauntlet & liquifier gun

Elites

4 x Incubi

Troops

10 x Warriors, Splinter Cannon

5 x Wracks, liquifier gun

Heavy Support

Razorwing Jet Fighter

Transports

2 x Venoms
1 x Raider, Disintegrator Cannon, Splinter Racks, Night Shield


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Is that far enough from what you were expecting?