The Imperium vs. the Tau

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**Brother Coa**

nomotog wrote:Though really it shouldn't be that surprising. A manta is I think twice as big as a titan. Don't know the exact number, but it's huge and expensive.

Of course when Manta is a spaceship, that would be like using Cobra attack cruiser against Ork Gargant. Of course Gargant would have little chance against a vessel who's guns are build to fight other ships.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Space Crusader wrote:
Fixed it for you

You are such troll, I am done talking to you.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

nomotog wrote:
Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:A funny thing happened the other day, during a 40k rules discussion, one friend mentioned he wanted a to buy a titan and other was drooling over the FW manta, and they got to arguing over which was more dangerous in a game/battle, so we did some rules based comparison and after that we can fully say a warlord/reaver/warhound titan has absolutely no chance against a Manta, by the rules of apoc and flyers.

It kinda astounded us, the linchpin was the fact that no weapon with a blast template or teardrop template can even hit a flyer while its in flight mode, unless they are AA mounts, and no titan has a AA rated weapon. and the Megabolter the only titan weapon without a blast designator is only str 6, which cannont pen the front armor of the manta (av 13) and would need 6s anyway to hit, and a only has a 60" range, but I digress.

It was pretty crazy that in a actual tabletop game the mightiest weapon of the imperium would rely on hydras and its fighters to protect it, from a Manta armed transport.

Of course tabletop never reflects the fluff, but funny nontheless.

What if the manta was in skimmer mode. Though really it shouldn't be that surprising. A manta is I think twice as big as a titan. Don't know the exact number, but it's huge and expensive.

well a manta and titan will only ever be in apoc games, and as to points the titan and manta are close the Titan being about 500pts more for a warlord, and why would the Manta ever go skimmer until the Titan was removed.
Still a fun eye opener.

**Space Crusader**

"Deleated"

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Brother Coa your comparisons are unrealistic

A Manta is interface craft like a thunderhawk, and is what they call in for heavy support, but its primary role is transport, but the fact stands on a TT game, the imperial Titan has no chance against a manta, without help, unless the manta is stupid and decides to land infront of it.

**Armless Failure**

Brother Coa wrote:First: I don't have beard.

Actual facial hair is not necessary to be neckbeard. look it up.

**nomotog**

Some are being a little mean to coa. Sure he is wrong on a lot of things, but there is no reason to make fun of him personally.

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Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Brother Coa your comparisons are unrealistic

A Manta is interface craft like a thunderhawk, and is what they call in for heavy support, but its primary role is transport, but the fact stands on a TT game, the imperial Titan has no chance against a manta, without help, unless the manta is stupid and decides to land infront of it.

I would compare a manta to a guard drop ship. You can deploy a whole tau army from one manta. It is huge.

**Brother Coa**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Brother Coa your comparisons are unrealistic

A Manta is interface craft like a thunderhawk, and is what they call in for heavy support, but its primary role is transport, but the fact stands on a TT game, the imperial Titan has no chance against a manta, without help, unless the manta is stupid and decides to land infront of it.

"These dropships were several times larger than a Thunderhawk gunship which is capable of operating as either a skimmer or a flyer on the battlefield."

Manta is a dropship, used to transport troops and equipment from SPACE to land.
Sound like spaceship to me, + Manta has Tau fleet weapons, says so in the book.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

nomotog wrote:Some are being a little mean to coa. Sure he is wrong on a lot of things, but there is no reason to make fun of him personally.

I agree, a persons social status and groom quality do not have a bearing on this discussion, keep it at least based on actual statements and such, make fun of the words not the person boys and girls.

**Space Crusader**

Personal attacks are against Rule Number One. Posting personal attacks will lead to temporary suspension of your account. Thanks! ~Manchu

**Brother Coa**

Space Crusader wrote:
People who lose to them on a regular basis and have no fething idea what communism is.

Brother Coa fits this perfectly

One last thing before I go:

I was born here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

So your comment is invalid.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:Some are being a little mean to coa. Sure he is wrong on a lot of things, but there is no reason to make fun of him personally.

Thank you, I am wrong sometimes. But right most of the time.

I would compare a manta to a guard drop ship. You can deploy a whole tau army from one manta. It is huge.

Guard Dropship is the around same size as Marine one. And Manta is several times bigger then Thunderhawk.
It's a spaceship.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Brother Coa wrote:
Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Brother Coa your comparisons are unrealistic

A Manta is interface craft like a thunderhawk, and is what they call in for heavy support, but its primary role is transport, but the fact stands on a TT game, the imperial Titan has no chance against a manta, without help, unless the manta is stupid and decides to land infront of it.

"These dropships were several times larger than a Thunderhawk gunship which is capable of operating as either a skimmer or a flyer on the battlefield."

Manta is a dropship, used to transport troops and equipment from SPACE to land.
Sound like spaceship to me, + Manta has Tau fleet weapons, says so in the book.

it mounts the same weapons that a Tigershark AX-0-1 mounts, heavy railgun and ion cannons, no difference and you trying to pull these definitions out of your ass based on its size is irrelevant, it can and is used in surface battles , and is what the tau answer the Titans with, and in a TT situation a Titan is at its mercy.

Sorry Brother Coa, its the facts.

**nomotog**

I think a guard drop ship is bigger seeing as it holds a full regiment. No doubt there are different sized ones. I would compare the manta to the big versions.

**Brother Coa**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
it mounts the same weapons that a Tigershark AX-0-1 mounts, heavy railgun and ion cannons, no difference and you trying to pull these definitions out of your ass based on its size is irrelevant, it can and is used in surface battles , and is what the tau answer the Titans with, and in a TT situation a Titan is at its mercy.

Sorry Brother Coa, its the facts.

And what is Ion Cannon? Main armament of Tau Space Fleet.
Sorry indeed.

Give Titan a Nova Cannon and see if the Manta is stil there after he use it.

**Space Crusader**

"Deleated"

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

I am not certain why all this concern over its size, why does that matter, the facts are this, the Tau use the Manta's to ferry their Cadres to the battle sites, and also have armed them to provide heavy support for those same personel, wether it can and does fly in space makes no difference, if a Imperial Titan is found as a threat its the only thing the Tau currently have that is even in the Titan's league.

Its just comical that in a TT enviroment it will murder the Titan, just something we discovered. And there are rules for it even to be used so its not wish listing or anything.

Brother Coa, your ignorance is showing again.

A hammerhead can mount the same Ion cannon, exactly the same other than range., as does the barracuda, and the base Tiger shark.

**Brother Coa**

nomotog wrote:I think a guard drop ship is bigger seeing as it holds a full regiment. No doubt there are different sized ones. I would compare the manta to the big versions.

Never heard about that, the only DropShip I know that Guard use is this one: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valkyrie#.TtZ-0rL9YqA

**TrollPie**

Brother Coa wrote:
And what is Ion Cannon? Main armament of Tau Space Fleet.
Sorry indeed.

The Ion Cannon is mounted on Hammerheads, Barracudas, Tiger Sharks and Mantas. The Ion Cannons used by the Tau fleet are hundreds of times larger.

Give Titan a Nova Cannon and see if the Manta is stil there after he use it.

So a 60 metre tall Emporer Titan can somehow wield a weapon that fires rounds the size of a city. Titans, no matter how powerful people claim them to be, don't pack that much firepower. On a related note, they don't pack enough firepower to take out Imperial Guard regiments or cities, let alone entire planets as some people claim.

**Brother Coa**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:I am not certain why all this concern over its size, why does that matter.

Like I said: it's not the size it's a function.
Manta is a spaceship, used to transport troops from Space to the Planet.
It has armaments of the Tau Space Fleet, it looks like Spaceship and it's BIG.
It's not designed to fight ground wars, it was desinged for space.

Why don't Imperium use it's spaceships like Tau use Manta?

**TrollPie**

Brother Coa wrote:
nomotog wrote:I think a guard drop ship is bigger seeing as it holds a full regiment. No doubt there are different sized ones. I would compare the manta to the big versions.

Never heard about that, the only DropShip I know that Guard use is this one: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valkyrie#.TtZ-0rL9YqA

Valkyries are atmospheric gunships and transport craft. The primary dropships used by the IN are like the ones on the cover of the IG codex, holding thousands of troops and looking like kilometre-long battleships.

**Space Crusader**

"Deleated"

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

ok one last time, its like a Thunderhawk but its BIGGER

it carries troops, but it also has weapons.....

It is desined for BOTH space and atmospheric combat.

It has the same weapons Available to other Ground and Air based Tau craft.

And it is used by the Tau as heavy support.

Deal with it and stop being obtuse, I thought you were smarter than this.

BTW yeah the imperial LANDING craft you are refering to were on the cover of the IG codex, IIRC were called Castellan Landing craft, but once grounded took quite a while to lift off, and not something currently available for Apoc play..but who knows FW may get ambitious

**TrollPie**

Brother Coa wrote:
Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:I am not certain why all this concern over its size, why does that matter.

Like I said: it's not the size it's a function.
Manta is a spaceship, used to transport troops from Space to the Planet.
It has armaments of the Tau Space Fleet, it looks like Spaceship and it's BIG.
It's not designed to fight ground wars, it was desinged for space.

Why don't Imperium use it's spaceships like Tau use Manta?

Mantas are light carriers, designed to transport small Tau forces from orbit to the field while providing cover fire. Proper Tau space ships are of similar size to Imperial Guard ones, several kilometres long.

**nomotog**

Brother Coa wrote:
nomotog wrote:I think a guard drop ship is bigger seeing as it holds a full regiment. No doubt there are different sized ones. I would compare the manta to the big versions.

Never heard about that, the only DropShip I know that Guard use is this one: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valkyrie#.TtZ-0rL9YqA

It's the tetrarch heavy lander. I found a reference to it in the apocalypse book. It's not on the lexicanum, but it's in Tactica Imperialis page 60.

**Brother Coa**

TrollPie wrote:
The Ion Cannon is mounted on Hammerheads, Barracudas, Tiger Sharks and Mantas. The Ion Cannons used by the Tau fleet are hundreds of times larger.

The Manta use that large one, the one for Tau Space Navy. Check Taros campaign.

So a 60 metre tall Emporer Titan can somehow wield a weapon that fires rounds the size of a city. Titans, no matter how powerful people claim them to be, don't pack that much firepower. On a related note, they don't pack enough firepower to take out Imperial Guard regiments or cities, let alone entire planets as some people claim.

I agree. The point is that Tau are using troop spaceship transport with modified Ion Canons stripped from Tau battleship to bring down a Titan.

**nomotog**

Actually tau have never used a manta on a titan. They used a tiger shark that's there heavy bomber.

**Brother Coa**

nomotog wrote:It's the tetrarch heavy lander. I found a reference to it in the apocalypse book. It's not on the lexicanum, but it's in Tactica Imperialis page 60.

Thank you, I actually found a picture. HE is like Cobra Class Destroyer, only 10 times smaller.
Something like that, just give him some vulcano cannons, missiles and plasma cannons and here you go: Imeprial version of Tau Manta.

**TrollPie**

Brother Coa wrote:
TrollPie wrote:
The Ion Cannon is mounted on Hammerheads, Barracudas, Tiger Sharks and Mantas. The Ion Cannons used by the Tau fleet are hundreds of times larger.

The Manta use that large one, the one for Tau Space Navy. Check Taros campaign.

They use Long-Barreled Ion cannons, which are used on battleships but in batteries of hundreds whereas there's 6 on a Manta. Using some of the same weaponry as dedicated space fighters doesn't make it one. It's a light carrier/dropship by space fleet standards

**nomotog**

Brother Coa wrote:
nomotog wrote:It's the tetrarch heavy lander. I found a reference to it in the apocalypse book. It's not on the lexicanum, but it's in Tactica Imperialis page 60.

Thank you, I actually found a picture. HE is like Cobra Class Destroyer, only 10 times smaller.
Something like that, just give him some vulcano cannons, misses and plasma cannons and here you go: Imeprial version of Tau Manta.

It has cannons on it. Twelve from what I counted. That's why I compare the two. Both are heavy drop ships that are also full of guns.
[url=http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/richardworthington/WIP/Dropship.png]
Here is a pic[/url]

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Visual aid time...

Burst cannon for scale and heavy Rail gun as well, same as mounted on Tigershark.
Not exactly a Battleship ion cannon..infact same size as a hammerhead can carry.

And as for the Tetrarch, well they dont do that with them, they just land and disgorge troops, and then try to get back to orbit, its like a D-Day style heavy transport ship, not a flying attack craft. so no wishlisting.

**Brother Coa**

nomotog wrote:
It has cannons on it. Twelve from what I counted. That's why I compare the two. Both are heavy drop ships that are also full of guns.

I saw a different craft, this is it? It looks cool.
I wounder why Imperial never used it like Tau Mantas?