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CpatTom wrote:In 1770 the British Empire could have been considered the worlds greatest power. Either way, the 13 united colonies of the America's broke away, and the United states was born. 300 years later, I think the military situation might look a little different. If the United States wanted to defeat Great Britain in a conflict, I think the odds would have increased slightly over that 300 year span.

This is not quite right, US and GB had been more of an allies in the last 100 years then rivals.
If you want more accurate comparison, imagine Tau Empire as Nazi Germany and Imperium of Man as all Allied forces.

Corruption, decline, military stagnation. All Imperium issues, and none are being addressed.

And? Imperium is so BIG that these things are minor in comparison. HLoT still holds great military power + Adeptus Astartes.

Given time, and against the worst long term military/political opponents in the setting, the Tau have a rather good shot.

If they ever get FTL that will enable them to travel in hours to the nearest sector instead of weeks


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Kilkrazy wrote:All it takes is for GW to write some new fluff.

Matt Ward puts himself as Emperor of Mankind.
Thus ending the 40k for all eternity.

Brother Coa wrote:Yeah, right....... in that case Imperium, Tau and Eldar [(ITE)] would all unite to combat them. What now?

I was using it as a way to point out the ridiculous nature of "The Imperium is huge, they'd totally win," argument. Even united ITE loses, as the Nids Have eaten most of some odd thrteen Galaxies (its more than six, source: one of the nid codexes). The Orks are the largest presence in this galaxy and their numbers are larger than that as they spread outside the milky. The Necrons (I dunno, they use to have alot).


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Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:In 1770 the British Empire could have been considered the worlds greatest power. Either way, the 13 united colonies of the America's broke away, and the United states was born. 300 years later, I think the military situation might look a little different. If the United States wanted to defeat Great Britain in a conflict, I think the odds would have increased slightly over that 300 year span.

This is not quite right, US and GB had been more of an allies in the last 100 years then rivals.
If you want more accurate comparison, imagine Tau Empire as Nazi Germany and Imperium of Man as all Allied forces.

Corruption, decline, military stagnation. All Imperium issues, and none are being addressed.

And? Imperium is so BIG that these things are minor in comparison. HLoT still holds great military power + Adeptus Astartes.

Given time, and against the worst long term military/political opponents in the setting, the Tau have a rather good shot.

If they ever get FTL that will enable them to travel in hours to the nearest sector instead of weeks

And ignore the part about thinking about future outcomes because all these issues were addressed. Good.

Sorry for the question But according to fluff the Tau does have FTL travel, they are skimming the warp, which while slower then IoM tech would still be FTL. So was the Fluff changed or not?

No, they do have FTL travel, its just not as fast as out and out warp travel, so there may be some exaggeration that the Tau do not have FTL Travel.

Brother Coa wrote:This is not quite right, US and GB had been more of an allies in the last 100 years then rivals.
If you want more accurate comparison, imagine Tau Empire as Nazi Germany and Imperium of Man as all Allied forces.

That's an amazingly terrible comparison. The best, most possible way to look at the Tau Empire is looking at the beginning of the Greek Empire, where independent nations (Ideally the Caste System of the Tau) banded together to fight the Persian Empire (Imperium-esque). Free men (Tau) fighting a tyrant (Imperium). What more of a stronger comparison could you want?

KplKeegan wrote:
That's an amazingly terrible comparison. The best, most possible way to look at the Tau Empire is looking at the beginning of the Greek Empire, where independent nations (Ideally the Caste System of the Tau) banded together to fight the Persian Empire (Imperium-esque). Free men (Tau) fighting a tyrant (Imperium). What more of a stronger comparison could you want?

I just remembered Galactic Empire and the Ewoks.
I rest my case, big is not better. That's why Manta crush Titans and Guardsman kill XV8 with ease.

Brother Coa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
That's an amazingly terrible comparison. The best, most possible way to look at the Tau Empire is looking at the beginning of the Greek Empire, where independent nations (Ideally the Caste System of the Tau) banded together to fight the Persian Empire (Imperium-esque). Free men (Tau) fighting a tyrant (Imperium). What more of a stronger comparison could you want?

I just remembered Galactic Empire and the Ewoks.
I rest my case, big is not better. That's why Manta crush Titans and Guardsman kill XV8 with ease.

A Tigershark, the equivalent of a Marauder Bomber, blew apart a Titan with just one attack run with ease and sent the other two running away back to Mars.

Even your sarcastic wit is terrible...

KplKeegan wrote:
A Tigershark, the equivalent of a Marauder Bomber, blew apart a Titan with just one attack run with ease and sent the other two running away back to Mars.

Titan didn't explode, the shot came right trough it and he just fall on the ground. You forgot to mention that the Tau used a LOT of firepower to get it's shield down for the Tighershark to actually take the shot. And for the record: Manta is a spaceship.

Here's one more big is not always better: Tau Etherial land on the planet, he is the biggest when it coes to Tau, a spiritual leader and a symbol. Get shot by sniper in the head

KplKeegan wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
That's an amazingly terrible comparison. The best, most possible way to look at the Tau Empire is looking at the beginning of the Greek Empire, where independent nations (Ideally the Caste System of the Tau) banded together to fight the Persian Empire (Imperium-esque). Free men (Tau) fighting a tyrant (Imperium). What more of a stronger comparison could you want?

I just remembered Galactic Empire and the Ewoks.
I rest my case, big is not better. That's why Manta crush Titans and Guardsman kill XV8 with ease.

A Tigershark, the equivalent of a Marauder Bomber, blew apart a Titan with just one attack run with ease and sent the other two running away back to Mars.

Even your sarcastic wit is terrible...

The apocalypse book mentions a barracuda squad (2 ships) with 27 interceptor kills 18 boomer kills 1 IG regiment.


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Brother Coa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
A Tigershark, the equivalent of a Marauder Bomber, blew apart a Titan with just one attack run with ease and sent the other two running away back to Mars.

Titan didn't explode, the shot came right trough it and he just fall on the ground. You forgot to mention that the Tau used a LOT of firepower to get it's shield down for the Tighershark to actually take the shot. And for the record: Manta is a spaceship.

Here's one more big is not always better: Tau Etherial land on the planet, he is the biggest when it coes to Tau, a spiritual leader and a symbol. Get shot by sniper in the head

Actually the tiger shark took down the shields it's self. 6 seeker missiles. Apparently seeker misses are very good at taking out void shields. I don't understand why, but that's what IA says.

Here's one more big is not always better: Tau Etherial land on the planet, he is the biggest when it coes to Tau, a spiritual leader and a symbol. Get shot by sniper in the head. The Fire Warriors eventually get uber mad and lay waste to the Imperial Guard/Space Marines

Fixed.

Raptors agree to help Imperial General to liberate Tauros. Raptors refuse to help Imperial General with certain things because 'defensive and escort missions are beneath them'. The Imperium loses.

Gee whiz Mr. Space Marine, you sure are awsome when you want to be.

I gotta stop before I get sucked into this Imperialist nonsense.

KplKeegan wrote:
Raptors agree to help Imperial General to liberate Tauros. Raptors refuse to help Imperial General with certain things because 'defensive and escort missions are beneath them'. The Imperium loses.

Gee whiz Mr. Space Marine, you sure are awsome when you want to be.

I gotta stop before I get sucked into this Imperialist nonsense.

For me at least that game is not canon.
I understand 1 Space marine and few Guardsman, maybe even 1 Chaos Space Marine.
But shooting down a Valkyrie with a Pulse Rifle. Killing hundreds of Guardsman and hundreds of Stormtroopers, DOZEN of Space Marines, hundreds of Chaos Space Marines + Raptor + 2 Sorcerors + few Oblitarators + 3 Daemon Princes and finally a LORD OF CHANGE. ( did I also mentioned that he did that ALONE, and he just recieve 1 rank up after all that )
Did I also mentioned I killed 90% of them with my sword? FAIL
Let's not speak about Chuck O'Kais again when it comes to fluff. He is character who only Draigo can match and defeat.

Seeker Missiles
First they penetrate, then they explode.

Kilkrazy wrote:Seeker Missiles
First they penetrate, then they explode.

And where does that say?
Imperial Armory and Lexicanum don't mention that at all.


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KplKeegan wrote: The Fire Warriors eventually get uber mad and lay waste to the Imperial Guard/Space Marines

"Deleated"

nomotog wrote:The point is. The IoM dose go out of it's way not to kill the tau. Nearly every crusade into tau space gets called back after one system and thanks to the revisionists in BL these are crusades that are going very well at the time too.

You didn't see the Ethereal hiding behind the golden throne?

Hey Space Crusader, ever heard about Draigo killing Daemons in the Warp? Or Mephiston killing entire Tyranid strike force by himself and with his bare hands? Or when Ultramrines and several other Chapters destroy an entire Tau strike force and retaking sub-sector from them? Or when Black Templars and Ultramrines massacred Tau at Nimbosa?

Just saying...

"Deleated"

I don't know if any poster ever claimed that the Tau Empire is mightier than the Imperium of Man (I never read such a statement, but I am not masochistic enough to read every Tau hater thread) which is absurd according to official fluff. All I know is that for a while Brother Coa deliberately accuses every Tau player to support that statement which is absurd and obvious trolling.

I heard a lot of things.
But I think that Emperor in his almost death state is doing more then he was alive is simple hilarious.
Also, GW deciding to left 40k timeline in place so that they can watch us argue like this while taking all of oyor money is simply hilarious


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Kroothawk wrote:I don't know if any poster ever claimed that the Tau Empire is mightier than the Imperium of Man (I never read such a statement, but I am not masochistic enough to read every Tau hater thread) which is absurd according to official fluff.

So you admit that Tau is not stronger then Imperium?
Well you are the first Tau fan to admit that. Good for you.

"Deleated"

What Wood Elves have to do wit h 40k?
Or Tau and Imperium in that matter?

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I don't know if any poster ever claimed that the Tau Empire is mightier than the Imperium of Man (I never read such a statement, but I am not masochistic enough to read every Tau hater thread) which is absurd according to official fluff.

So you admit that Tau is not stronger then Imperium?
Well you are the first Tau fan to admit that. Good for you.

Blatant trolling, seeing as every Tau fan has been willing to admit that since the race's inception.

Not every Tau fan, many of them still think that Tau can beat the Imperium. You can see that by their comments.

Brother Coa wrote:Not every Tau fan, many of them still think that Tau can beat the Imperium. You can see that by their comments.

Such as who? Can't be Beefcake, he admitted that the Tau could be destroyed by a Tyranid hive fleet, and that an invasion of Terra by the Tau would be a total disaster.

Personal attacks are against Rule Number One. Posting personal attacks will lead to temporary suspension of your account. Thanks! ~Manchu

TrollPie wrote:
Such as who? Can't be Beefcake, he admitted that the Tau could be destroyed by a Tyranid hive fleet, and that an invasion of Terra by the Tau would be a total disaster.

Tau can reach Terra? This is a new one...
Various Tau fans, can't name them all. They just tell "Mantas" and "Raiguns" and taking Taros as an example that Tau can own the Imperium at war. What is an simple delusion.

A funny thing happened the other day, during a 40k rules discussion, one friend mentioned he wanted a to buy a titan and other was drooling over the FW manta, and they got to arguing over which was more dangerous in a game/battle, so we did some rules based comparison and after that we can fully say a warlord/reaver/warhound titan has absolutely no chance against a Manta, by the rules of apoc and flyers.

It kinda astounded us, the linchpin was the fact that no weapon with a blast template or teardrop template can even hit a flyer while its in flight mode, unless they are AA mounts, and no titan has a AA rated weapon. and the Megabolter the only titan weapon without a blast designator is only str 6, which cannont pen the front armor of the manta (av 13) and would need 6s anyway to hit ( correction the manta has a special rule that it can be hit on standard bs due to size, but other rules still apply i.e the blast/ord), and a only has a 60" range, but I digress.

It was pretty crazy that in a actual tabletop game the mightiest weapon of the imperium would rely on hydras and its fighters to protect it, from a Manta armed transport.

Of course tabletop never reflects the fluff, but funny nontheless.

Space Crusader wrote:Brother Coa is obviously a raging neckbeard without a girlfriend.

First: I don't have beard.
Secondly: I have a girlfriend, and she doesn't know anything about 40k.
Third: What this have to do with this thread or Tau and Imperium?


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Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Of course tabletop never reflects the fluff, but funny nontheless.

I cannot agree more, on table 10 Guardsman can kill Daemon Prince, one Guardsman can kill entire Fire Warrior team.
While in fluff ten Space Marines can destroy entire battalion of Guardsman or Fire Warriors.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:A funny thing happened the other day, during a 40k rules discussion, one friend mentioned he wanted a to buy a titan and other was drooling over the FW manta, and they got to arguing over which was more dangerous in a game/battle, so we did some rules based comparison and after that we can fully say a warlord/reaver/warhound titan has absolutely no chance against a Manta, by the rules of apoc and flyers.

It kinda astounded us, the linchpin was the fact that no weapon with a blast template or teardrop template can even hit a flyer while its in flight mode, unless they are AA mounts, and no titan has a AA rated weapon. and the Megabolter the only titan weapon without a blast designator is only str 6, which cannont pen the front armor of the manta (av 13) and would need 6s anyway to hit, and a only has a 60" range, but I digress.

It was pretty crazy that in a actual tabletop game the mightiest weapon of the imperium would rely on hydras and its fighters to protect it, from a Manta armed transport.

Of course tabletop never reflects the fluff, but funny nontheless.

What if the manta was in skimmer mode. Though really it shouldn't be that surprising. A manta is I think twice as big as a titan. Don't know the exact number, but it's huge and expensive.

Personal attacks are against Rule Number One. Posting personal attacks will lead to temporary suspension of your account. Thanks! ~Manchu