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BlapBlapBlap wrote:All I want to say is that the Communist regime fell once and it will again. Only this time it will happen in SPACE!

But only after it triumphed over the vast feudal Empire that had ruled the lands (large chunks of the galaxy) for aeons before, if history is to be your guide.

Fine. The outcome remains the same, however. Sure, aeons may seem a long time but the Imperium wins in the end

Give me two full strength chapters, a suitable number of Imperial guard for occupation and Ill take them out.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Fine. The outcome remains the same, however. Sure, aeons may seem a long time but the Imperium wins in the end

Well, last time i checked there weren't any feudal empires around when the last communist regime fell, so erm, no.

But on a more serious side, you might be right. Or the Imperium fractures. Or the Rak'Gol enslave/kill/eat/whateverthehelltheydotothosepoorsodswhoarecapturedbythem everything. Or Chaos wins. Or the orks. Who knows?

Give me two full strength chapters, a suitable number of Imperial guard for occupation and Ill take them out.

Two full standard chapters lack even the necessary amount of spacecraft to truly threaten the Tau Empire ( 2-6 grandcruisers/battleship equivalents and a bunch of uparmoured light cruisers is nice, but not that impressive ) or any other even regional power ( Eldar craftworlds, ork empires and the like )
Besides that, if conquering a hundred well defended worlds is that cheap and easy then quite a few imperial warmasters are doing something wrong

Citing the Taros Campaign:
1 full company of Avenging sons Space marine chapter
2 full companies of the Raptors Space Marine chapter
10 full regiments of Imperial guard (3-4k troops per regiment )
and a scout titan detatchment.

Failed to defeat the Tau ( whom deployed around 100 hunter cadres aprox 8-9k firewarriors, and 5k kroot with 8k human aux ) on one planet, and 3 companies of spacemarines would be approx 1/6th of your 2 chapters of astartes.

So go beat your space marine chest somewhere else, the Taros campaign book was a well written and intelligent treatise on a 40k planetary campaign and both sides were well represented, and fought gallantly, the IoM was just out manuvered and defeated.
In a published and recognized GW approved product.

Of course over confidence is wonderful, please have all you want.

And I promised myself I would not get sucked into another one of these pointless threads..oh well.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Citing the Taros Campaign:
1 full company of Avenging sons Space marine chapter
2 full companies of the Raptors Space Marine chapter
10 full regiments of Imperial guard (3-4k troops per regiment )
and a scout titan detatchment.

Failed to defeat the Tau ( whom deployed around 100 hunter cadres aprox 8-9k firewarriors, and 5k kroot with 8k human aux ) on one planet, and 3 companies of spacemarines would be approx 1/6th of your 2 chapters of astartes.

And? Taros Campaign failed because Marines did nothing, Guard Strategy was fail and Imperial Fleet actually left Tau Navy in control of the other side of the planet while not protecting troop and supply convoys. Not to mention the unforgivable lack of Massive Orbital bombardment of the capital city and actual help of Human renegades.
2 year old child could lead Imperial Forces better on Taros.

So go beat your space marine chest somewhere else, the Taros campaign book was a well written and intelligent treatise on a 40k planetary campaign and both sides were well represented, and fought gallantly, the IoM was just out manuvered and defeated.

Like I said: Imperial Commanders in that book seems to have spend most of their time sitting, eathing popcorn adn watching marathon of Imperial Football.
And you seem to forget Nimbosa where Black Tempalrs and Ultramariens 2'st company slaughter Tau after Tau slaughtered almost all of Nimbosa population + defenders. Revenge
Then Zeist where Tau were defeated by Space Marines alone, the Lagan where Ultramarines beat the crap out of them.
Then we have Kronus and Kaurava. 2 worlds forever out of Tau domain.
etc...

In a published and recognized GW approved product.

That books vary so much from author to author that it becomes ridiculous at thee end. On one hand we have unbeatable Tau and on the other that same Tau get owned hard by one Guard Regiment.

And I promised myself I would not get sucked into another one of these pointless threads..oh well.

It's ok, we all feel the same

Tadash is clearly a GW plant, or is about 13.

Is it again two weeks since the last thread inviting to dream about the genocide of the tau race?
Trolling Tau gamers seems to never grow old.

Kroothawk wrote:Is it again two weeks since the last thread inviting to dream about the genocide of the tau race?
Trolling Tau gamers seems to never grow old.

So very sad, I have a tear in my eye

Bla, bla, bla .... how would it look like if every time Imperial Army get slaughtered Imperias fans whine?

Move along...

KplKeegan wrote:

1.The Imperial Guard don't pilot Titans.
2. Space Marines have tanks.
3. The Imperial Guard didn't exist during the Heresy. It was the Imperial Army.

Wow, you totally disregarded the point of my post which was to point out that the Horus Heresy wasn't an all-marine outing. But yeah, nitpick all you like.

In a vacuum the Tau would be crushed, no question. As it stands, on the Eastern Fringe the Imperium doesn't have the resources to launch a Sabbot Worlds scale crusade. They're simply too scattered and have bigger threats to face.

Logistically? The Tau haven't got a chance. But, given the IoM's outlook on the Tau...chances are nothing will come of it. However, it is a nifty thing to contemplate.

For the Tau I think their inability to utilize the Warp would hinder their ability to counter-attack or to reinforce any battlefront. Then again, we're only talking about a few systems here, not a galaxy spanning empire that is the Imperium, so distance may not play such a huge factor. The Tau have an unshakable faith in the Greater Good (and some humans), which would only make them harder to beat. Not to mention this is their home-turf, so they have nowhere to retreat to, and we all know how vicious cornered rats are...


As for the IoM? There are so many arguments that make note of the sheer numbers the Imperium can throw at a problem, which is something the Tau can't combat, no matter how cool they are. Tactically? The Imperium can throw fifty Space Marine chapters at the Tau if they really wanted to (Macharian Heresy's anyone?) but for something like the Tau a fraction of that would be all that was needed. If you include the fleet elements of multiple SM chapters, a battlefleet, and other elements, you're looking at a crusade of immense size. The Tau just don't have the numbers to fight that.

It would be pretty cool to fight a campaign that revolves around the conquest of a core Tau system. But I think it'll have to be user generated only because GW won't release anything fluff related that involves crushing their new (popular) race.

And if I'm not mistaken (I probably am) wasn't there a cease fire agreed upon by the Tau and the Imperium?

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Not really. The Tau control at most a hundred worlds, and their warp technology is incredibly primitive. They couldn't strike a million worlds.

It's not 'primitive' in terms of technology, but that their race is considered 'blank' to the warp and they simply do not understand what it is, being a race devoid of psykers.

After all, if a ground campaign is too expensive, all the Imperial Navy has to do is to hold the line long enough for several Strike Cruisers to get into position for exterminatus.

That would be improbable. Exterminatus is the tourniquet of the Inquisition for the Imperium of Man. They would not waste it on World's they wouldn't be attacking in the first place.

It's very similar to the ground campaign. The Imperial Navy simply does not have the resources to waste on protecting an Exterminatus Fleet that's trying (and probably failing) at destroying an unblemished Tau World.


There seems to be some mutual respect between the Space Marines and Tau.

Not with Black Templars or the Deathwatch. And if the Imperial Navy can't hold the line, then a Black Templars fleet will just have punch through a Tau fleet, drop off several Cyclonic torpedos, then slingshot around the planet and escape into the warp while the Tau planet behind them blows up. And then to the next Tau world, and the next, all the way to T'au.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Citing the Taros Campaign:
1 full company of Avenging sons Space marine chapter
2 full companies of the Raptors Space Marine chapter
10 full regiments of Imperial guard (3-4k troops per regiment )
and a scout titan detatchment.

Failed to defeat the Tau ( whom deployed around 100 hunter cadres aprox 8-9k firewarriors, and 5k kroot with 8k human aux ) on one planet, and 3 companies of spacemarines would be approx 1/6th of your 2 chapters of astartes.

And? Taros Campaign failed because Marines did nothing, Guard Strategy was fail and Imperial Fleet actually left Tau Navy in control of the other side of the planet while not protecting troop and supply convoys. Not to mention the unforgivable lack of Massive Orbital bombardment of the capital city and actual help of Human renegades.
2 year old child could lead Imperial Forces better on Taros.

So go beat your space marine chest somewhere else, the Taros campaign book was a well written and intelligent treatise on a 40k planetary campaign and both sides were well represented, and fought gallantly, the IoM was just out manuvered and defeated.

Like I said: Imperial Commanders in that book seems to have spend most of their time sitting, eathing popcorn adn watching marathon of Imperial Football.
And you seem to forget Nimbosa where Black Tempalrs and Ultramariens 2'st company slaughter Tau after Tau slaughtered almost all of Nimbosa population + defenders. Revenge
Then Zeist where Tau were defeated by Space Marines alone, the Lagan where Ultramarines beat the crap out of them.
Then we have Kronus and Kaurava. 2 worlds forever out of Tau domain.
etc...

In a published and recognized GW approved product.

That books vary so much from author to author that it becomes ridiculous at thee end. On one hand we have unbeatable Tau and on the other that same Tau get owned hard by one Guard Regiment.

And I promised myself I would not get sucked into another one of these pointless threads..oh well.

It's ok, we all feel the same

Not to mention Vorga, mentioned in DOW II.

What is always kind of a little funny about the Tau Vs threads. People always seem to put them in battle with the fraction that seems to want to kill them the least. Nids orks necrons are all way way more likely to attack the tau then the IoM.

Tadashi wrote:Not all Chapters have only 25 Predators. Some Chapters have more. Don't know which ones, but it says so in Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition.

Which is an interesting fact.


Hammerheads to Predators 1000:1
Mantas to Titans 100:1
Battlesuits to Space Marines 10:1

These are fluff reflected ratios... The Imperial Guard is about the only real contender the Tau have in war, and frankly, they have a poor track record.

Saying the "full might" of an Empire could "steam roll" something is irrelevant, if the "full might" can't be mustered. As for the numbers, it's not exact, but can be assumed because Tau tanks and aren't relics of a long forgotten era, they are mass produced, same as Mantas and Battlesuits.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:What is always kind of a little funny about the Tau Vs threads. People always seem to put them in battle with the fraction that seems to want to kill them the least. Nids orks necrons are all way way more likely to attack the tau then the IoM.

A far more serious threat to the Tau are indeed the Nids and Orkz. They can't be swayed to defect or negotiated with, they are simply butchers.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Not all Chapters have only 25 Predators. Some Chapters have more. Don't know which ones, but it says so in Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition.

Which is an interesting fact.


Hammerheads to Predators 1000:1
Mantas to Titans 100:1
Battlesuits to Space Marines 10:1

These are fluff reflected ratios... The Imperial Guard is about the only real contender the Tau have in war, and frankly, they have a poor track record.

Saying the "full might" of an Empire could "steam roll" something is irrelevant, if the "full might" can't be mustered. As for the numbers, it's not exact, but can be assumed because Tau tanks and aren't relics of a long forgotten era, they are mass produced, same as Mantas and Battlesuits.

Where do you get your numbers?

nomotog wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Not all Chapters have only 25 Predators. Some Chapters have more. Don't know which ones, but it says so in Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition.

Which is an interesting fact.


Hammerheads to Predators 1000:1
Mantas to Titans 100:1
Battlesuits to Space Marines 10:1

These are fluff reflected ratios... The Imperial Guard is about the only real contender the Tau have in war, and frankly, they have a poor track record.

Saying the "full might" of an Empire could "steam roll" something is irrelevant, if the "full might" can't be mustered. As for the numbers, it's not exact, but can be assumed because Tau tanks and aren't relics of a long forgotten era, they are mass produced, same as Mantas and Battlesuits.

Where do you get your numbers?

There are none, the closest thing I could pull to a reference for the ratios, would be a developed western nation's military production capability to a nation with no production capacity.

Space Marines really don't have a lot of armor or troops. They also don't really build more Predators or Land Raiders. While they can make them in some cases, they really don't mass produce them. I can't actually see them waging a war against the Tau in a sustained capacity.

They would simply not have the logistical support needed to wage a continuous campaign without the support of the IG and IN.

Considering they are they are the rapid response force of the IoM, I don't see the Tau in any real danger.

Nids and Orkz yeah, Humans? lol no.

The Imperium is no threat? A Sabbat Worlds-level Crusade into the Tau Empire would involve over a billion Imperial Guardsmen, several Astartes Chapters, and significant Mechanicus forces, including whole Titan Legions.

Tadashi wrote:The Imperium is no threat? A Sabbat Worlds-level Crusade into the Tau Empire would involve over a billion Imperial Guardsmen, several Astartes Chapters, and significant Mechanicus forces, including whole Titan Legions.

That would awesome if the IoM could muster an offensive like that.

Butttttttt, they can't.

The Tau are in an area where 10 Chapters rallying together is an amazing offensive! Where a few Regiments and a Company of Space Marines is a Crusade.

No such efforts will ever be mounted against the Tau... And so they will continue to grow on the Eastern Fringe. The IoM is more worried about the 5 other threats crushing their empire into dust atm.

And if drastic fluff re-writes are any indication, expect to see a massive battle against Chaos incoming in 6th.

Tadashi wrote:The Imperium is no threat? A Sabbat Worlds-level Crusade into the Tau Empire would involve over a billion Imperial Guardsmen, several Astartes Chapters, and significant Mechanicus forces, including whole Titan Legions.

It has more to do with the IoM just not actually wanting to kill the tau. Though I don't think a Sabbat level crusade would be sufficient. Maybe, but it seems to small.

It amazes me to no end when a fluff supported defeat of the Iom is portrayed the imperial fanboys are swift to immediately say it was due to inept guard planning or strategy or merely they find some major problem with the fluff , saying its a uneven reflection of the events, faulting the author.

so when the Iom wins the stars are right and all is well in the cosmos, nothing is upsetting the apple cart.

If xenos beat the Iom, obviously its due to the failure of some minor point , or the author merely decided to wimp out the Iom, so great way to trvialize a enemies win, and console yourself on "well we were robbed."

I am fairly certain the responders saying that during the Taros campaign the Marines did nothing must have been reading a different version to mine, if by nothing they mean they were not slaying tau warriors in each hand and driving all before them in a blaze of ogiastic IoM adolescent fevor, then no they were not doing anything.
They were conducting pinpoint assaults against vital objectives and acting as a elite assault force...yup doing nothing.

as to Zeist and Nimbosa, I could not find hard numbers on combantants just hyperbolic descriptions, the Taros campaign was actually written like a mock military campaign guide, not a marine spank fest.

And as to varying that may be true so these threads again are as pointless as they are.

Hey if you guys hate the Tau so much, go buy abunch of the minis and subject them to melting and burning perhaps some form of sympathetic magic may occur and remove them from your grimdark little universe.

good luck on that, and the Ostrich defense as well.

The Tau Empire will grow, which will be it's undoing. Once it reaches a certain point, the High Lords will give way to the Ordo Xenos and Astartes Chapters calls for a Crusade. When that happens, the Tau will be obliterated.

Well considering they are now at a roughly comparable tech level with the imperium minus warp travel, if the IoM lets them continue to develop at the rate they are progressing through the tech levels, waiting that long may be pointless, when your Highlords of terra do send their fleets, they may just encounter someone who's technology renders any advantage in numbers moot.

Ahhh but such is fanboyisms, I like my Tau and enjoy collecting and building them, but dont fantisize about them wiping out such and such race and marching on to glory...they are in the final estimation, little resin and plastic figures, produced for a game made by now older male brittish blokes who wanted to make a fun backstory and excuse for adults playing with toy soldiers, and I thank them for that.

So make all the Genocidal fantasies you want, its a game and the only thing that kills off anything in it is sales.

Tadashi wrote:The Tau Empire will grow, which will be it's undoing. Once it reaches a certain point, the High Lords will give way to the Ordo Xenos and Astartes Chapters calls for a Crusade. When that happens, the Tau will be obliterated.

If they aren't on their knees bowing to Abbadon and asking for his forgiveness yes.

The Imperium's threats at the moment are more about the losing war against daemons, the shattered Cadian Gate, a heavily contested Armageddon and the ever looming Necron and Tyranid threats. The Tau will most likely stop fighting the IoM once they get larger and start fighting common foes if anything.

Imperial/Tau relations are actually quite good.

No, once it reaches the point of open trade, the Ordo Xenos starts conducting black ops. And once the Tau move in, you'll have Astartes closing in rapidly.

Tadashi wrote:No, once it reaches the point of open trade, the Ordo Xenos starts conducting black ops. And once the Tau move in, you'll have Astartes closing in rapidly.

It's waaay past that man.

Its at the point of the Tau annexing worlds from the IoM. The Zeist Campaign was the line in the sand, where Calgar, though respecting the Tau, had no choice but to send a ton of Chapters to crush them with massive IG support.

All they managed to do was push the Tau back for a time.

Tadashi wrote:No, once it reaches the point of open trade, the Ordo Xenos starts conducting black ops. And once the Tau move in, you'll have Astartes closing in rapidly.

If you were an Inquisitor, the Tau would already have won scores of worlds without firing a shot. Tau openly trade with Rogue Traders and even Imperial Colonies that are seeded around their border (which will undoubtedly swell) and, through the expert beguiling of the Water Caste, exert their influence wholesale, which results in a new World for the Tau to colonize.

Only when the beaurocracy starts looking for tithes of materials and men in places long forgotten or outdated does the Imperium actually notice the Tau. The Taros Campaign was a disaster for the Space Marines and Imperial Guard. The Raptor's Captain shows just how much hubris he has by flat out refusing to help the Imperial General with such things as escort and defensive missions because it was 'beneath them'.

The majority don't even consider the Tau as a threat, allowing us to spread our borders wide into Imperial Territory. Calgar is quite content on letting Tau mosey about, knowing full well that if they do fall, the Tyranids would finish the job and make the Ultramarines go out a 'la Squats: Nom Nom Nom.

Which is somewhat true. Compared to Orks, Chaos, Tyranids and Necrons, the Tau are just small-fry. And with their policy of toleration, sooner or later, some Tzeentchian or Slaaneshi cults are going to pop off daemonic fireworks in a Tau Sept. In the meantime, we'll go handle other, more grimdark, less irritating threats.

Am I the only one seeing a connection?

Isnt the imperial navy superior to the tau fleet? And dont the the tau have like 16 worlds? The Sabbot World crusades fought for hundreds, or even thousands of worlds.

However the thing about the tau is, if you have an armed robber in your house, do you really have time to worry about the termites?

And if the Imperium falls to abaddon there goes the whole galaxy. The whole reason the tau have such an easy life is due to the the Imperium is the shield that protects them from the galaxys greater horrors.

Plus that 1+ plot armor save helps.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Isnt the imperial navy superior to the tau fleet? And dont the the tau have like 16 worlds? The Sabbot World crusades fought for hundreds, or even thousands of worlds.

However the thing about the tau is, if you have an armed robber in your house, do you really have time to worry about the termites?

And if the Imperium falls to abaddon there goes the whole galaxy. The whole reason the tau have such an easy life is due to the the Imperium is the shield that protects them from the galaxys greater horrors.

Plus that 1+ plot armor save helps.

No, the Imperial Navy has superior broadside capability, but in long-range, the Tau have the advantage. And it's Sabbat, not Sabbot.