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But it's basically the same types or arguments all over again. Sorry it isn't what everyone was looking for and didnt live up to the BS rumors we all were believing.

Put your models on the table and roll some dice.

Ok , what if it realy does suck . What your saying now about the play it , test it , wait for others to find good builds etc. Happened in the 5th ed too and till nids got biomancy in 6th , there was no way to make them work in areas where 1500pts games were the norm . In US where some games were played at 2k or more nids could do well with a very good player, but good players do well with a lot of things and it surely didn't help the casual or less skilled players to get more wins with their tyranids , specialy when everyone was runing that same tervigons+hiveguard+doom etc builds .


I mean no one can claim that losing a way of deployment is good for any codex . What if sm lost drop pods ?Even if someone doesn't use them at all , it would still mean that everyone else doesn't have to worry about them being a pain in their back sides . Also for nids any mechanical change is always a big thing , because unlike my IG , they can't ally in other armies to cover their weak spots . When I had problems with melee armies , I just took 2 units of GH and a RP. A tyranid player can't do something like that .

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:
I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake, I do have eldar, tau, deamon and CSM opponents though, I just happen to have a cool group that will consciously choose to avoid what is know to be OP, unless we both agree to go as op as possible. and even against these I feel I could give them a good fight with the current codex.

Well goody then, in that sort of environment, any Codex is "good". Unfortunately, we're talking about how the Codex stacks up against competitive or unknown opponents.

ah so you mean your looking for how to make an OP Nids list, well I dont have the answer to that since the codex is too new for that, potentially we will find it. I know that nobody expected the waveserpent to be as op as it is when the eldar codex came out. maybe something in the nids codex will end up being completely awesome.

Join the game currently being played by every other army. The TauDar is the top-of-the-pile build. Nothing is a hard counter to it. It is probably the OP build.

There's always going to be 1 or 2. Previously, it's been SW or GK or Necrons. Now it's Tau and Eldar. Them's the breaks.

 fartherthanfar wrote:


I am amazed at the level of unhapinness coming from some of you guys (and girls possibly). some of you really think that returning the codex to the store will change GW ways? Get your heads out of your asses and grow some balls, when life deals you a crappy hand you deal with it like a man, not like a whiny biitch.
If anything im happy that this isnt a top dog codex, I would feel bad winning even more than before simply due to the table being tilted in my favor. I much prefer winning when the table is tilted against me. (by this I mean fighting a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstars cuz against other list that arent as optimized (in an op way) I feel im evenly matched)



how to recognize a hater: they only see the bad and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the good, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything good in this codex cuz they want to whine, and admiting that some things got better would not satisfy them in their need to hate, biitch and moan.

Okay, first, stop insulting everyone that disagrees with you. And I've reported you.

Second, "Deal with it like a man?" Dude, its a friggin' game that we pay money for. We're consumers and if we don't like the product, we return it or send in a complaint. That's how an economy works. If we're not satisfied we can spend our money elsewhere. We're under no obligation to spend our money at GW. In fact, there is a lot of competition out there for my money. Its called "competition" and GW needs to learn that word as well. So, if GW puts out a product we're not satisfied with, why should we buy it? We shouldn't "Deal with it like a man." Dealing with a crappy product you paid a lot of money for is not what I'd call "being a man." Far from it.

Third. How to recognize an apologist. they only see the good and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the bad, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything bad in the codex cuz they want to whine and admiting that some things got bader would not satisfy them. (it hurt to write such poor grammar, btw.)

Makumba wrote:

But it's basically the same types or arguments all over again. Sorry it isn't what everyone was looking for and didnt live up to the BS rumors we all were believing.

Put your models on the table and roll some dice.

Ok , what if it realy does suck . What your saying now about the play it , test it , wait for others to find good builds etc. Happened in the 5th ed too and till nids got biomancy in 6th , there was no way to make them work in areas where 1500pts games were the norm . In US where some games were played at 2k or more nids could do well with a very good player, but good players do well with a lot of things and it surely didn't help the casual or less skilled players to get more wins with their tyranids , specialy when everyone was runing that same tervigons+hiveguard+doom etc builds .


I mean no one can claim that losing a way of deployment is good for any codex . What if sm lost drop pods ?Even if someone doesn't use them at all , it would still mean that everyone else doesn't have to worry about them being a pain in their back sides . Also for nids any mechanical change is always a big thing , because unlike my IG , they can't ally in other armies to cover their weak spots . When I had problems with melee armies , I just took 2 units of GH and a RP. A tyranid player can't do something like that .

I am not saying it is good OR bad - it SEEMS to me that it isn't an army that is going to stand up well against Tau and Eldar or Taudar. But I was just responding to the person earlier in the thread that didn't believe there was EVER negative commentary in regards to the Eldar Codex... here is more about the Tau Codex...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/519457.page

Yes the Nid codex may very well be underwhelming. I know it isn't what I was specifically hoping for - but I'm always amazed at what players come up with on the table. I'll be curious to see how it all shakes out in the end.

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:
I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake, I do have eldar, tau, deamon and CSM opponents though, I just happen to have a cool group that will consciously choose to avoid what is know to be OP, unless we both agree to go as op as possible. and even against these I feel I could give them a good fight with the current codex.

Well goody then, in that sort of environment, any Codex is "good". Unfortunately, we're talking about how the Codex stacks up against competitive or unknown opponents.

ah so you mean your looking for how to make an OP Nids list, well I dont have the answer to that since the codex is too new for that, potentially we will find it. I know that nobody expected the waveserpent to be as op as it is when the eldar codex came out. maybe something in the nids codex will end up being completely awesome.

No, I want to make a list that will stand an even chance of winning in a blind match up. Especially if I don't have to take Flyrant/Venomthropes/Termagaunts in every single list I write.

Also, what? Everyone knew Wave Serpents were ridiculous when the Codex came out (just maybe not to the degree it is now). I also said that Jetbikes were really good too at the time, and they're easily the 2nd best unit in that Codex.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:


I am amazed at the level of unhapinness coming from some of you guys (and girls possibly). some of you really think that returning the codex to the store will change GW ways? Get your heads out of your asses and grow some balls, when life deals you a crappy hand you deal with it like a man, not like a whiny biitch.
If anything im happy that this isnt a top dog codex, I would feel bad winning even more than before simply due to the table being tilted in my favor. I much prefer winning when the table is tilted against me. (by this I mean fighting a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstars cuz against other list that arent as optimized (in an op way) I feel im evenly matched)



how to recognize a hater: they only see the bad and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the good, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything good in this codex cuz they want to whine, and admiting that some things got better would not satisfy them in their need to hate, biitch and moan.

Okay, first, stop insulting everyone that disagrees with you. And I've reported you.

Second, "Deal with it like a man?" Dude, its a friggin' game that we pay money for. We're consumers and if we don't like the product, we return it or send in a complaint. That's how an economy works. If we're not satisfied we can spend our money elsewhere. We're under no obligation to spend our money at GW. In fact, there is a lot of competition out there for my money. Its called "competition" and GW needs to learn that word as well. So, if GW puts out a product we're not satisfied with, why should we buy it? We shouldn't "Deal with it like a man." Dealing with a crappy product you paid a lot of money for is not what I'd call "being a man." Far from it.

Third. How to recognize an apologist. they only see the good and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the bad, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything bad in the codex cuz they want to whine and admiting that some things got bader would not satisfy them. (it hurt to write such poor grammar, btw.)

firstly I do realize I was letting myself get emotionnaly charged when writting that and for that I apologize.

second I do see the bad of the codex, please look at page 11 of this thread to see some of what i see, I fully acknowledge the other side of the situation whereas most other naysayers in this list dont do the same.

explaining what sucks is one thing focusing on it and avoiding the good is another

I was merely trying to encourage better attitude (while being a douche on that particular comment, I will admit)

once again I apologize for being a douche, I was kinda dissapointed in ppls reaction and let myself go while writing a comment.

Dakka does that to ya, I've been on that side of the coin before. Just don't sweat it too much, maybe you'll be righteously vindicated in a month when we turn out opinions around (for my own part though, I doubt it ).

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:


I am amazed at the level of unhapinness coming from some of you guys (and girls possibly). some of you really think that returning the codex to the store will change GW ways? Get your heads out of your asses and grow some balls, when life deals you a crappy hand you deal with it like a man, not like a whiny biitch.
If anything im happy that this isnt a top dog codex, I would feel bad winning even more than before simply due to the table being tilted in my favor. I much prefer winning when the table is tilted against me. (by this I mean fighting a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstars cuz against other list that arent as optimized (in an op way) I feel im evenly matched)



how to recognize a hater: they only see the bad and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the good, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything good in this codex cuz they want to whine, and admiting that some things got better would not satisfy them in their need to hate, biitch and moan.

Okay, first, stop insulting everyone that disagrees with you. And I've reported you.

Second, "Deal with it like a man?" Dude, its a friggin' game that we pay money for. We're consumers and if we don't like the product, we return it or send in a complaint. That's how an economy works. If we're not satisfied we can spend our money elsewhere. We're under no obligation to spend our money at GW. In fact, there is a lot of competition out there for my money. Its called "competition" and GW needs to learn that word as well. So, if GW puts out a product we're not satisfied with, why should we buy it? We shouldn't "Deal with it like a man." Dealing with a crappy product you paid a lot of money for is not what I'd call "being a man." Far from it.

Third. How to recognize an apologist. they only see the good and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the bad, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything bad in the codex cuz they want to whine and admiting that some things got bader would not satisfy them. (it hurt to write such poor grammar, btw.)

firstly I do realize I was letting myself get emotionnaly charged when writting that and for that I apologize.

second I do see the bad of the codex, please look at page 11 of this thread to see some of what i see, I fully acknowledge the other side of the situation whereas most other naysayers in this list dont do the same.

explaining what sucks is one thing focusing on it and avoiding the good is another

I was merely trying to encourage better attitude (while being a douche on that particular comment, I will admit)

once again I apologize for being a douche, I was kinda dissapointed in ppls reaction and let myself go while writing a comment.

I, for one, feel your apology very acceptable.
YEs, we all wish that the codex was good, and it is understandable to become emotionally engaged about somE thing you can spend thousands of dollars on.
But, in all honesty, re-reading your post(s), It seems you may be in denial of how bad the situation is, where as before we had the tervi-spam mono-build, we now have the swarm+synapse oh-by1-the-way-your-monster-died-so-you-lose-list.

Yes the Nid codex may very well be underwhelming. I know it isn't what I was specifically hoping for - but I'm always amazed at what players come up with on the table. I'll be curious to see how it all shakes out in the end.

But both tau and eldar became realy good only with ally.. Mono tau and mono eldar aren't as good . Separate units or combinations are ok , but when people said that farseers suck they were right . Comparing to the old seers they did. Old seers worked without the baron . The new seers were kind of a bad without the baron and with him they shot in to the stratosphere. Mono tau were ok against some armies specialy against people with bad lists , but it was when they got their hands on new eldar and farsight ally when they realy became good.

And because of how important synaps is now a lot of stuff is retro nerfed. The devityrant is the best tyrant in a void . But against a lot of armies if he tries to be this shoty platform he is dead and dead synaps is not worth a better devityrant, unless he starts spiting out D templates. w40k is not a Ld using game . Sure there are tests , to which half the armies are immune , and there are psychic powers . But no army other then nids falls apart because one MC , which you can't hide , dies . And am talking about core rules here , non of the escalation D weapons stuff being used by people , FW adding more flyer and anti flyer options etc. And we are suppose to use this stuff right ? That is what w40k approved stamp is for right ?
Or are nids suppose to play only against core rules armies . Right now synaps is a bit like old necron phase out . kill X models and the army stops working how it suppose to . Sure there is gimiks in forms of SotW/ResProtocols, but all in all any good player will know that after X models dead they will be in a favorable position and no tactics or list building skill can help the other player from them doing it .

I for example see the good. Nids didn't start talking, doing politics and motivational pre battle speeches. New models fit the look of the army which is still incredibly menacing, assuming it's not GW painting it as Hive Fleet Leviathan. Mawlocks might provide some teeth gnashing assuming a good matchup, Carnifexes make sense, Pyrovore nuke might be fun until FAQed, synapse does not outright kill you, warriors did not go up in price etc. It's all kind of piece of bread in concentration camp good though.

I'm not even returning my codex (shiny), still it is so obviously flawed that it makes my head hurt. I'd love to see tables they playtested it on because the only somehow logic explanation is a lot of big LoS blocking terrain pieces.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:
I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake, I do have eldar, tau, deamon and CSM opponents though, I just happen to have a cool group that will consciously choose to avoid what is know to be OP, unless we both agree to go as op as possible. and even against these I feel I could give them a good fight with the current codex.

Well goody then, in that sort of environment, any Codex is "good". Unfortunately, we're talking about how the Codex stacks up against competitive or unknown opponents.

ah so you mean your looking for how to make an OP Nids list, well I dont have the answer to that since the codex is too new for that, potentially we will find it. I know that nobody expected the waveserpent to be as op as it is when the eldar codex came out. maybe something in the nids codex will end up being completely awesome.

No, I want to make a list that will stand an even chance of winning in a blind match up. Especially if I don't have to take Flyrant/Venomthropes/Termagaunts in every single list I write.

Also, what? Everyone knew Wave Serpents were ridiculous when the Codex came out (just maybe not to the degree it is now). I also said that Jetbikes were really good too at the time, and they're easily the 2nd best unit in that Codex.

so you want to have an even chance of winning against a blind match up against potentially an op list like wave serpent spam or triptide, so to have an even chance against those you need to be as strong as them
so you want to be op like them

to that I say ....booooooo

 fartherthanfar wrote:
so you want to have an even chance of winning against a blind match up

Pause and consider.

bwahahahahaha! Piece of bread in a concentration camp kind of good!

Oh man, that's a slaaaayer!

 cvtuttle wrote:
Earlier someone was stating how the initial reactions to the Eldar codex were much the same as we are seeing now...

Here is the thread from the Eldar Codex release

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/530477.page

and here are some of the similar comments:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Just glancing through mine now and Im sure glad I didn't open the wraithknight because that think is crap for 300pts, I'd rather take 2 wraithlords.

besides that:
- Farseers: terrible, I rolled it out a bunch of times and sometimes got Doom fortune, the other powers just blow. I even rolled Eldrad and managed it a few times. If I cant rely on them getting good powers they are a waste of points.

-Warlocks: also terrible, seriously you cant rely on a solid battle plan with these things unless you are getting shrouding, and they cant even join wraithguard!

-Spiritseer: cheaper then I expected but otherwise good, 2 rolls on that table is better then one, still random but its better then nothing.

-Wraithguard/blades: No battle trance is a bummer, but I think having a unit of D scythes will be a combat deterrent unless your enemys want to lose half a unit on the way in. Overall happy with these guys.

-Wraithknight: Waste of points, 280pts for 3 s6 plasma cannon shots? Next.

-Jetbikes: Sweet Jesus, why are the models so bad because these things are busted.

Warpspiders: 6 + 2D6 + D6 + shoot + 2D6 move? Holy feth balls!! and they are S7 against vehicles and everything i3 and lower? Give me 30.

.

Yes because this summary is as scoulding as what I think of Nids. Me disliking random and loving some other units. Plus I wasn't wrong.

 fartherthanfar wrote:


regular Flyrant is 30 pts cheaper (30!!!!!) got Bs4 and can now cast 2 spells per turn (lost biomancy but still a clear buff on our best unit from last edition)

crones are good and harpys cost 10pts less and get +1w and +1 att (awesome, now we got ourselves a real airforce)

I think you are grossly overestimating Flyrants. So, you think that +1 BS (as if that's even a great deal when everyone in their dog is running 2x TL devs) and the chance to cast 2 powers from one of the worst psychic tables balances out the loss of biomancy. Okay... Changes to synapse mean that the HT is under a massive strain. 4 wounds is not a big deal and when he gets taken out your army will suffer. You seem to think that buffing the offensive potential at the sake of it's durability is a net positive. I think you are straight up wrong.

Crones and Harpies are mediocre at best. Actually, the harpy is pretty bad. On paper, crones look "ok", but they are not great at their role: AA. Defensively, they simply do not have what it take to survive. Opponent's AA will not have difficulty eliminating them (right after HT's) and their output in the meantime is mediocre.

Now, if I remember correctly you used to have a quote sigged that in your mind 40k should be a game where all options within a codex should be worth taking. To me, the absence of that sig and your current defense of the tyranid codex make your position suspect and somewhat hypocritical.

Tyranids do not have the tools to complete in a competitive or semi-competitive environment. This is my scale:


At 2k:

I play in a 0 riptide environment.
I play in a 1 riptide environment.
I play in a 2 riptide environment.
I play in a 3 riptide environment.
I play in a 4 riptide environment.
I play in a 4+ riptide environment.

If you play in a 0 to 1 riptide meta, good luck/have fun; you are gaming against people who have fun rolling cubes and your tyranids can compete. I play in a 2 riptide meta (semi-competitive) and tyranids are sub-par.

i will not judge yet as people said every new dex is gak even tau when they first got released was called worse. people saying riptides were alright nothing special and same as the USR but we alln now ow hard it is to charge a tau gunline give it a month and i bet there will be some good lists hat will do well.

i collect tau but i cant wait to get some nids once i finished painting my tau up whats left

kyle foster wrote:
i will not judge yet as people said every new dex is gak even tau when they first got released was called worse. people saying riptides were alright nothing special and same as the USR but we alln now ow hard it is to charge a tau gunline give it a month and i bet there will be some good lists hat will do well.

i collect tau but i cant wait to get some nids once i finished painting my tau up whats left

Alternatively, you can look at the codex yourself and form your own opinions. People's opinions now, people's opinions later... it's all the same. Use your grey matter and decide for yourself.

have not seen it yet but what im saying is people pre judgement may change like with the other books.

I've watched a couple batreps on youtube and I don't dispute some of the issues with synapse creatures being somewhat fragile and easy to disarm. But what I was struck by with how they were blitzing a single flyrant and crone inside the opponents zone of control game after game. Yet they acted shocked when those two models were brought down by the combined firepower of the entire opposing army. No matter how tough an individual model is if you allow the entire enemy force to concentrate on it for 1-2 full shooting phase yes that model should die.

It's a bad move to go rushing in with two units that compose 25% of your force with no other supporting units that would force the opponent to split fire between multiple targets.

I think it'd meet in much better results in if the flyrant and crone were held off until other units were in range to be a threat, that way the opponent would be able to mass fire on those units as easily. They've been basically offering their armies up piecemeal to their opponent which contributes to their losses. Not saying that Tyranids are godly, just that the playstyle being used is not granting any favors towards winning.

A Trygon/Mawloc hitting their aegis battery or skyfire units would also go a long way to keeping their lynchpins airborne.

 paulson games wrote:


A Trygon/Mawloc hitting their aegis battery or skyfire units would also go a long way to keeping their lynchpins airborne.

I think Mawlocs are one of the very few bright spots in the dex and opposing AA is a prime target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player 

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

Personally I feel that the nids dex has necron syndrome, where you literally need certain units to play the game (no synapse, no army unless you spam stealers) like necron phase out where if they lose x amount of warriors they lose their army so it makes the player feel like they have to play two games at once (the missions and then play keep away with rheir synapse units so they can keep doing the mission). There was a reason crons lost phase out in the new dex because it was a terrible idea and severely handicaps armies and does not allow them to preform at full potential, especially with the new nid dex where a few of your heavy hitters are synapse like the flyrant so it has to be babysat and protected like a house of cards at a frat party.

The sad part about games like this is that it becomes less and less about playing what you LIKE to play, and more about playing to either Beat the other guy senseless, or play using the most OP things you have.

I myself have an Eldar player in my primary group, and he constantly brags about his ID weapons, tough 8 giant model, and constant use of invulnerable saves so even his standard use models could take a full brood of carnifex beating their face in if he gets lucky.

What gets me the most about this codex.... 90% of the real "improvements" are in the Heavy slots. Every other slot either has changes that even out, stat reductions or ability adjustments that coincide with a slight points decrease or a points increase in the HQ slots. Troops are evened out completely due to decreases in cost but increases in upgrades. Elites saw some points decreases or small increases, while seeing unecessary changes/nerfs. The venomthrope was the best treated there because even though its "shrouded" is now MODELS within 6 inches instead of UNITS, it is shrouded instead of a 5+ cover which is far better. Hive guard had noooooo reason to go up in cost, even when fixing their main gun, also the sub gun is totally NOT worth 5 points unless your fighting guard running multi tank spam. Fast attacks are... interesting, shrikes are cheaper but again, some costs went up, goyles are more costly, but the saddest is the FMC's, they themselves have no extra durability so since everyone Except Tyranids gets decent skyfire they are prone to get shot off, though the flyrant has the best survivability.

The heavy slot saw massive improvements in pure points cost, the ONLY heavy not to see some kind of improvement via stats and/or cost are the Trygon and prime. There is SOME potential... but without higher toughness, Eternal warrior, FNP, or invulnerable saves we are stuck relying on that stealth upgrade to Venomthropes to protect our more important units. Like I can imagine a group of hive guard plopped center field in some terrain for cover to give them that 3+cover save and pray they can out shoot whatever is going to dodge their cover save before it hits them. We do still have FNP if we manage to roll the power, and that power did get a HUGE buff thankfully. But with the change to how Synapse works, and all of our protection being on the Venomthrope there aren't going to BE many models that are going to be a bigger target without some way to port them across the field.

I do however look forward to deep striking a trygon prime with the Reaper of Obliterax to scare them into targetting it, they may have lost their scything talons but at least the prime can make up for it with the artefact even if it's FAR overpriced... but on a trygon prime I think it will be very interesting.

Overall I'm dissapointed, but I won't be returning my codex, and I will be keeping on buying models to MAKE something work somehow.

 kirsanth wrote:
So the response to specific critiques is glittering generalities?

That's been the story the whole way through. No one has even attempted to refute the specific and detailed criticisms of this book, responding only with general nonsense statements like "We don't know yet!" and "But the prices have gone down", as if those two things hold any meaning.

 kirsanth wrote:
Next up, the complainers are not "strategic generals" and are "stuck in the previous codex" right?

Followed no doubt by the best one of all: Use tactics!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kirsanth wrote:
So the response to specific critiques is glittering generalities?

That's been the story the whole way through. No one has even attempted to rebut the specific and detailed criticisms of this book, responding only with general nonsense statements like "We don't know yet!" and "But the prices have gone down", as if those two things hold any meaning.

 kirsanth wrote:
Next up, the complainers are not "strategic generals" and are "stuck in the previous codex" right?

Followed no doubt by the best one of all: Use tactics!

OF COURSE!!! Tactics will make our rippers better! Those 3 points were a to balance out their hidden powers!!! What hidden powers you ask? Well I cant tell you since I havent found them out but my rumour guy says that to unlock it you have to beat the campaign on max difficulty with no damage taken and no resets

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player 

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

That's actually one of the videos I'd been thinking of when I made my comment, in their games the flyrant and crone has been front and center leading the charge while the rest of the army is playing catch up. They are amazing at reaching the rear of the field but I think maybe they are dropping that bomb a turn to soon and they'd also benefit with a second crone as it'd bring a bit more force to the rear at the same time. Right now he's splitting his forces into two smaller ones in effect, the fliers try and immediately harass but quickly die as they don't have quite enough punch but die while the rest of the army advances and get shot at the next turn. If there was a second flier it or rear striker it'd raise their threat level.

Not sure if it'd be enough to get around the other units being synapse f-ed but it'd be worth trying IMO.

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
You feel you know how to beat them, but you've never actually played against them. And you are in here giving advice to people who consistently have. Advice like "beat eldar and tau by staying out of sight and reach of his guns" "give him other stuff to worry about".

I don't even feel the first one dignifies a response, the second one is... what? Give them what to worry about? Start making innuendo towards them from across the table during the course of a game? Tell them you think they may have left their head lights on? What can you give them to worry about in game that you don't want getting shot down... it's all coming out of your points.

Actually I am not giving you advice on how to beat tau and eldar, im giving you advice on how to use tyranids as a whole, against any army, so obviously certain armies (especially the op ones) will avoid some of these strategies. and youre going to have to find what to do depending on whats on the board.

Well your post says "Tau & Eldar are a strong codex, so I don't expect to have an easy time beating them, but there are some things we can do -" and then you proceeded the list the things I mentioned in my post. There's not many ways to claim that what you said wasn't intended to be advice about beating Tau and Eldar. A subject which, by your own admittance, you are completely inexperienced in.

 paulson games wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player 

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

That's actually one of the videos I'd been thinking of when I made my comment, in their games the flyrant and crone has been front and center leading the charge while the rest of the army is playing catch up. They are amazing at reaching the rear of the field but I think maybe they are dropping that bomb a turn to soon and they'd also benefit with a second crone as it'd bring a bit more force to the rear at the same time. Right now he's splitting his forces into two smaller ones in effect, the fliers try and immediately harass but quickly die as they don't have quite enough punch but die while the rest of the army advances and get shot at the next turn. If there was a second flier it or rear striker it'd raise their threat level.

Not sure if it'd be enough to get around the other units being synapse f-ed but it'd be worth trying IMO.

Well currently alot of stuff is worth trying since the nids are deperate to be even playable against opponents even in friendly games (your opponent shouldnt have to try to lose so you can score a win they should be able to use tactics and kill the important stuff like everyone else).

While I do agree that he should have taken more of an air presence if he was gonan go that route, he didnt really have the option of holding thenback while the rest of his army plays catchup due to the nid flyers being so squishy where they can barely weather a quad gun and even then they sometimes go poof, flyrants on the other hand are still good but are easilly out matched by any real AA like the devastion a dakkajet or some NS can pull off, if he still had BRB powers then I would think he would be fine and could hold his own but as of right now hes a joke conpared to other air units.

I have been thinking of reliable ways to keep synapse and I was thinking of either a prime with crown in a blob of dakka carnies or a tyrant doing the same thing but with guard. Its expensive but it could reliably keep most of an army within synapse (24" for the tyrant if it takes the primaris and crown, 18" for the prime since I'm pretty sure he isn't a psyker) hpwever it would be a pretty expensive deathstar that could go down to focus fire, I thought about taking an adl and deploying it max range then use venoms to toss out 2+ cover to everyone but everyone and their mom has ignores cover so that may not work either.

Something I'm considering is if you use the Trygon for it's tunnel, based on the huge 6" size which is just enough to position a unit of warriors around the Trygon's base. (that also bring extra synapse)

Granted people seem to run warrior light, but it's a way to get some firepower up the table long enough to shoot and a full size squad of warriors is a fair amount of shots. It's nowhere as good as the old spore list but it may be an option over footslogging the whole way, combined with fliers overhead it might speed up enough of the force to be worthwhile.

How do you intend to make use of the Trygon tunnel though? That thing is unreliable at best, the chances are really against you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Earlier someone was stating how the initial reactions to the Eldar codex were much the same as we are seeing now...

Here is the thread from the Eldar Codex release

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/530477.page

and here are some of the similar comments:

blahblah eldarhate blah

Admittedly it doesn't look like the Nid Codex will be stomping all over Tau and Eldar....

But it's basically the same types or arguments all over again. Sorry it isn't what everyone was looking for and didnt live up to the BS rumors we all were believing.

Put your models on the table and roll some dice.

And here is a thread for you good sir, that rather than taking out specific posts from an opinion that was well below the majority, has instead counted and compiled the amount of positive and negative responses towards the eldar dex, and compared it to the the same thread for Tyranids.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573445.page
I would suggest having a read of this before inciting comparisons to the eldar release. It does kind of prove the whole "selective memory when it suits my point of view" statement that nid players have been using against people like you running to past releases as a way to combat the complaints about this dex.