Your thoughts on new Tyranids Codex?

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**tomball0706**

fishy bob wrote:
I haven't read through the whole thread, but have people actually had success returning the book? Even with the shrink wrap gone?

Yeah I managed to get a complete refund in my local GW, I had even taken off the shrink wrap. Didn't even really have to make the slightest fuss, just said i wished to return the product and the guy was more than willing to refund me, he even stated himself how he was upset over the codex with nids being his main army, if that doesn't sum up GW devs. newest "product" then I do not know what will anymore. Oh well, imma solider on and keep playing them, house mate bought the limited edition and man for all those flaws, it is a damn beautiful book

**fartherthanfar**

Fragile wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
we didnt lose survivability, we gained it, Venomthropes anyone!? sure we lost biomancy with its amazing iron arm, its was a 1 out of 3 chances for a flyrant to get it. I much prefer the current flyrant

I am amazed at the level of unhapinness coming from some of you guys (and girls possibly). some of you really think that returning the codex to the store will change GW ways? Get your heads out of your asses and grow some balls, when life deals you a crappy hand you deal with it like a man, not like a whiny biitch.
If anything im happy that this isnt a top dog codex, I would feel bad winning even more than before simply due to the table being tilted in my favor. I much prefer winning when the table is tilted against me. (by this I mean fighting a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstars cuz against other list that arent as optimized (in an op way) I feel im evenly matched)

Then you obviously playing against inferior opponents. Which is fine if that is your meta, but dont try to pretend that you beating elementary school kids is going to translate to a good codex. The Venom is a nice change, but your precious bug will die first, and then what do you have ? Not much.

I play against a group of people aged 25-30 and even though its true that they arent power gamers, they are by no means bad players.

the venomthropes can be hid by the bigger beast completely, and even if they arent completely hidden then they get a 3+ coversave which can help then survive, its all about strategic placement, I agree they are kinda frail but they can survive if used properly, we can now premeasure so try to avoid being within range of their guns, avoid line of sight, give them other priorities to shoot at.

**chaos0xomega**

The problem is, everyone is looking at the new codex, seeing that very little changed, and thinking that because little changed in the book, little changed on the tabletop. I am pretty certain, that even though the changes were 'small', the actual end-result in gameplay will be a lot bigger than everyone realizes.

Makumba wrote:
Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.

old chaos . Good Plague marines , oblits and flying Demon Princes.
new chaos .Good Plague marines , oblits and flying Demons Planes.

Heh, funny, I remember when the 5th edition CSM book came out everyone bitched about how obliterators were now the worst thing ever.... I also remember everyone bitching about how they were the worst thing ever when the 6th edition book came out... hmmmm....

**A GumyBear**

@chaos0xomega

The tyranids did change big on the tabletop, now they can lose in one turn, and can nuke the table with suicidal pyrovores jumping off a bastion onto blobs o' 30 gaunts

**fartherthanfar**

Missile launchers and skyfire missile launchers are first to come to my mind.

**BlaxicanX**

Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

**fartherthanfar**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

as mentionned before I realise tau and eldars are a stronger codex, so I dont expect to have an easy time beating them (its still not impossible, especially if the opponent isnt power gaming).
I also realise the venomthrope is frail (i did mention this too)

this is still not to say there isnt anything we can do, for example

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.
- dont take any other elite and take 3 teams of 1 venomthrope, this will force a tau player for example to sacrifice a minimum of 6 units to take them out (each venomthropes needed to get added markerlights and then get shot at)
- give him other stuff to worry about

**Plumbumbarum**

fartherthanfar wrote:
we didnt lose survivability, we gained it, Venomthropes anyone!? sure we lost biomancy with its amazing iron arm, its was a 1 out of 3 chances for a flyrant to get it. I much prefer the current flyrant

I am amazed at the level of unhapinness coming from some of you guys (and girls possibly). some of you really think that returning the codex to the store will change GW ways? Get your heads out of your asses and grow some balls, when life deals you a crappy hand you deal with it like a man, not like a whiny biitch.
If anything im happy that this isnt a top dog codex, I would feel bad winning even more than before simply due to the table being tilted in my favor. I much prefer winning when the table is tilted against me. (by this I mean fighting a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstars cuz against other list that arent as optimized (in an op way) I feel im evenly matched)

people are whinning saying "str4 ap3 bolters will destroy me" my answer is "are you high?" all of our ArSv 3+ guys are T6 with 4-6 wounds and can still get coversaves and even feel no pain. ap3 bolters dont scare me in the least.

notice that whenever im talking about the new codex im mentionning the good but also the bad, im actually looking at the full picture, most everyone else is just going "We lost this, and that, and he isnt as good as before, and this one didnt get better like i was hoping..." with no mention of what we actually gained.

how to recognize a hater: they only see the bad and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the good, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything good in this codex cuz they want to whine, and admiting that some things got better would not satisfy them in their need to hate, biitch and moan.

Whiny beaches, well that's new, you raised the bar there really, from the puny WAAC to this. Let's go with the tone, maybe apologist beaches, low quality plebs and casual bastards will finaly realise that even when you like uphil battles (like me for example) there is still little excuse for GW creating a codex thet senselessly nerfed, uninspired and castrated for the sake of paid updates. That's a matter of quality, you want handicaps do it yourself through list building and stop painting it as a high point of he book, not to mention using as an argument for others to suck it up, grow some balls? Grow balls to play toy soldiers at disadvantage? Jesus.

Maybe, just maybe (2%) they did this to release a supplement later, with missed entries and models for them but even if this was the case, proper way to do it would be announcing the fact now somehow. Other than that the book is not fully functional (why is vanguard dataslate not in the codex along with FOC adjusments? Are stealers and lictors better there? Don't you find that fact offensive?

**Django_Unchained**

fartherthanfar wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

as mentionned before I realise tau and eldars are a stronger codex, so I dont expect to have an easy time beating them (its still not impossible, especially if the opponent isnt power gaming).
I also realise the venomthrope is frail (i did mention this too)

this is still not to say there isnt anything we can do, for example

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.
- dont take any other elite and take 3 teams of 1 venomthrope, this will force a tau player for example to sacrifice a minimum of 6 units to take them out (each venomthropes needed to get added markerlights and then get shot at)
- give him other stuff to worry about

I love fisting riptides with my Daemon Princes.

**Andilus Greatsword**

fartherthanfar wrote:
@ mr crimson, it isnt BAD writing to eliminate choices. Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.
you guys are all such whiny baby, STOP LOOKING ONLY AT WHAT YOU LOST. Look at the loss and compare with what we gained and realize it very decent.

for example: yes we lost the 2+ walking tyrant, a mediocre option from last dex, what we gained is a considerably better flyrant for 30 pt cheaper.... I will repeat that for the thick skulls out there, 30 pts cheaper yet better than before! (and it was our best unit last dex)

Fair enough, but some of us still have our metal Tyrants on foot lying about that we wish were a viable option... Granted they're not totally screwed with a 3+, but I'd feel much more secure with a 2+ save (and for that matter, Flyrants are the clearly better choice as you've said).

Imposter101 wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:

how to recognize a hater: they only see the bad and focus on that, they chooses to ignore the good, if they do see it and/or mention it they add why its not enough. They can't actually accept that there is anything good in this codex cuz they want to whine, and admiting that some things got better would not satisfy them in their need to hate, biitch and moan.

How to recognise someone who cannot argue for the life of them. Note the use of the term "hater", and the words whining and bitching. It's almost like we're on the YouTube comment section. This poorly strung together ad-hom attack is used when the user is countered by logic, or a decent response.

I've looked at the full picture, in fact, I've looked over it and searched for something to like, but the copious amount of crap that cover and smudge the small amounts of mediocre to good stuff is ludicrous. One or two good units are not good when the other twelve range from mediocre to awful. You don't even need to make comparisons with the last codex to know this, unless, your fine with mono build.

For my own part, I do see some good in the Codex (the Heavy Slot, Venomthropes), but in general my thoughts on the book are very negative. It's just a matter of context - in threads about complaining about the Codex, I complain rather than say "oh man, I'm glad to see Tyrannofexes are actually at a reasonable cost now!"

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Guys

Guys, listen

I know how to fix it

To fix the codex

Listen

Give

Give the Pyrovore

Give the Pyrovore Soul Blaze

BAM

Epic codex.

Pfft, stealing from chaos, is there anything that soul blaze cannot fix?

Exalted!

**Ashiraya**

Django_Unchained wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

as mentionned before I realise tau and eldars are a stronger codex, so I dont expect to have an easy time beating them (its still not impossible, especially if the opponent isnt power gaming).
I also realise the venomthrope is frail (i did mention this too)

this is still not to say there isnt anything we can do, for example

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.
- dont take any other elite and take 3 teams of 1 venomthrope, this will force a tau player for example to sacrifice a minimum of 6 units to take them out (each venomthropes needed to get added markerlights and then get shot at)
- give him other stuff to worry about

I love fisting riptides with my Daemon Princes.

And then they Smash the Prince and he falls apart.

**A GumyBear**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

as mentionned before I realise tau and eldars are a stronger codex, so I dont expect to have an easy time beating them (its still not impossible, especially if the opponent isnt power gaming).
I also realise the venomthrope is frail (i did mention this too)

this is still not to say there isnt anything we can do, for example

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.
- dont take any other elite and take 3 teams of 1 venomthrope, this will force a tau player for example to sacrifice a minimum of 6 units to take them out (each venomthropes needed to get added markerlights and then get shot at)
- give him other stuff to worry about

I love fisting riptides with my Daemon Princes.

And then they Smash the Prince and he falls apart.

Nah hes got iron arm, warp speed, 4+ fnp, and +1w IWND like the rest of the daemon princes

**Rakear**

I still dont understand how the pyrovore becomes a nuke after jumping off a bastion. while i do understand the wording that allows the explosion, its the jumping off that I dont understand.
It has to die from instant death correct? instant death is a usr with specific rules.
a 2 wound model falling off a tower isnt going to die to a single dt test, nor would it explode if it could as its not double the toughness.
and you cant even jump off the tower if you cant place the model legally on the ground, if its forced to via tower destruction its removed from the table, which is not instant death.

So what makes the jumping off a tower work? Cause I dont see it.

Pyrovores are still garbage all the way around, even if you pay the tax to make them torrent, its still not worth it.

**Nem**

No point pointing out gaps in saves, there is no such thing as a infallible save and there isn't for a reason. Some units have ignore cover, more have access to AP2, or AP3 etc.
Best your going to get is Invun, or higher T FNP USR gives the best defence. Some armies lean on a certain type of save than others.
Nids rely for the most part on cover, and that's how it is.

I agree the codex could have, and should have been better. But how bad it is in terms of 'power' by the internet I feel is a bit of a stretch. Now you can take a unit, point out how it can be one shotted by one other tactic in the game, that's fine, and doesn't really mean much at all as the game works by units strengths and weaknesses, and it's the same for any unit.

I have my first games with the new dex this weekend so I'll see how I get on at least. Hopefully against 1ksons, Marine biker list and Eldar, I'm feeling pretty optimistic.

**SHUPPET**

fartherthanfar wrote:
@ mr crimson, it isnt BAD writing to eliminate choices. Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.
you guys are all such whiny baby, STOP LOOKING ONLY AT WHAT YOU LOST. Look at the loss and compare with what we gained and realize it very decent.

for example: yes we lost the 2+ walking tyrant, a mediocre option from last dex, what we gained is a considerably better flyrant for 30 pt cheaper.... I will repeat that for the thick skulls out there, 30 pts cheaper yet better than before! (and it was our best unit last dex)

You are either a middling troll or an incredible powergamer.

It's not a bad thing to eliminate choice and internal balance inside a codex, if a unit itself gains a stronger option?

I take it this release would be perfect if the codex was a pop-up book, with the best unit and ideal load-out from each section and coming up at you as you turn the pages. Well, it's not really far from it as is, which is why I guess this codex has satisfied you.

Our mentality is a lot different from yours - we want options and internal balance, not an auto-pick HQ, a limit of 1 usable troop choice, a useless fast attack section, and the only choice for elites being "do I take Venomthropes or do I need more Synapse?"

Hooray, you might be able to make a stronger build with the nex dex, using these units. We don't care. It's a terrible book, at this point its beyond ignorant to call everyone whiners. I've even seen talk of it being a disappointment on most the painting blogs I follow.

**Nem**

SHUPPET wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
@ mr crimson, it isnt BAD writing to eliminate choices. Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.
you guys are all such whiny baby, STOP LOOKING ONLY AT WHAT YOU LOST. Look at the loss and compare with what we gained and realize it very decent.

for example: yes we lost the 2+ walking tyrant, a mediocre option from last dex, what we gained is a considerably better flyrant for 30 pt cheaper.... I will repeat that for the thick skulls out there, 30 pts cheaper yet better than before! (and it was our best unit last dex)

You are either a middling troll or an incredible powergamer.

It's not a bad thing to eliminate choice and internal balance inside a codex, if a unit itself gains a stronger option?

I take it this release would be perfect if the codex was a pop-up book, with the best unit and ideal load-out from each section and coming up at you as you turn the pages. Well, it's not really far from it as is, which is why I guess this codex has satisfied you.

Our mentality is a lot different from yours - we want options and internal balance, not an auto-pick HQ, a limit of 1 usable troop choice, a useless fast attack section, and the only choice for elites being "do I take Venomthropes or do I need more Synapse?"

Hooray, you might be able to make a stronger build with the nex dex, using these units. We don't care. It's a terrible book, at this point its beyond ignorant to call everyone whiners. I've even seen talk of it being a disappointment on most the painting blogs I follow.

What's not internally balanced? I thought points increase on things like the Prime, Tervigon & Hive Guard were to address internal balance? This is far more internally balanced than the last.

**Savageconvoy**

fartherthanfar wrote:

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.

I don't see this really working to the nid advantage. Staying out of reach of Tau is insanely difficult, and hiding just limits the places you are able to put them. For an army that's main weakness is lacking long range power, I don't see this as a positive.

- give him other stuff to worry about

As a Tau player I don't see how this works to the Nid advantage. I looked through the book to see what I'd have to worry about the next time I went against a nid player, since there are a few in my area. I didn't find anything that scared me. I have a 115 point tank that is a hard counter to every big threat Nids can put out and I usually only brought it for marker lights. The Crone I literally thought was a typo since it actually manages to buff Missilesides and missile pods by having a 4+ and at T5 it gets wounded on 2's. The horde units don't even really bother me that much since Piranha with drones will mulch through them.

I'm not trying to brag about Tau, nor am I trying to really dog on the nids. As a Tau player I'm actually upset to see this. I literally have nothing to change in my list to handle what's supposed to be a changing meta. I have nothing to worry about or hard counter to face in the new army. 40K for all it's imperfections is supposed to work as an imbalanced game with the power creep slowly making things change. But then we have spikes like the Tau and Eldar with lows like the DA, CSM, and now the Nids that really manage to cement the current "OP" netlists as "OP" answers to everything.

**Andilus Greatsword**

Nem wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
@ mr crimson, it isnt BAD writing to eliminate choices. Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.
you guys are all such whiny baby, STOP LOOKING ONLY AT WHAT YOU LOST. Look at the loss and compare with what we gained and realize it very decent.

for example: yes we lost the 2+ walking tyrant, a mediocre option from last dex, what we gained is a considerably better flyrant for 30 pt cheaper.... I will repeat that for the thick skulls out there, 30 pts cheaper yet better than before! (and it was our best unit last dex)

You are either a middling troll or an incredible powergamer.

It's not a bad thing to eliminate choice and internal balance inside a codex, if a unit itself gains a stronger option?

I take it this release would be perfect if the codex was a pop-up book, with the best unit and ideal load-out from each section and coming up at you as you turn the pages. Well, it's not really far from it as is, which is why I guess this codex has satisfied you.

Our mentality is a lot different from yours - we want options and internal balance, not an auto-pick HQ, a limit of 1 usable troop choice, a useless fast attack section, and the only choice for elites being "do I take Venomthropes or do I need more Synapse?"

Hooray, you might be able to make a stronger build with the nex dex, using these units. We don't care. It's a terrible book, at this point its beyond ignorant to call everyone whiners. I've even seen talk of it being a disappointment on most the painting blogs I follow.

What's not internally balanced? I thought points increase on things like the Prime, Tervigon & Hive Guard were to address internal balance? This is far more internally balanced than the last.

Primes didn't need points increases, neither did the Swarmlord when he lost biomancy. Or what about Rippers? HOW THE HECK DID THEY GO UP 3 POINTS!?! The book may be slightly more internally balanced than the last, but the book still boils down to Flyrant/Prime + Hive Guard/Zoanthropes/Venomthropes + Termagants + Biovores/TFexes/Carnifexes/Mawlocs. That's only about 1/3 of the units in the army being worth consideration.

**SHUPPET**

Hive Guard nerf, no pods for Zoanthropes, no Lictor buff, additional of the crappy Haruspex, Pyrovores still gak, no more Ygarls or DoM... so now Elite slot is internally balanced in this sense that.... wow I don't any want any of the crap from this slot in my army except maybe the Venomthrope.

**ninjafiredragon**

fartherthanfar wrote:
the shrouded lord wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
@ mr crimson, it isnt BAD writing to eliminate choices. Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.
you guys are all such whiny baby, STOP LOOKING ONLY AT WHAT YOU LOST. Look at the loss and compare with what we gained and realize it very decent.

for example: yes we lost the 2+ walking tyrant, a mediocre option from last dex, what we gained is a considerably better flyrant for 30 pt cheaper.... I will repeat that for the thick skulls out there, 30 pts cheaper yet better than before! (and it was our best unit last dex)

Um... You realise there is a major difference between 3+ and 2+ don't you?
I mean, with 3+ their is a 1/3 chance of being wounded, a 2+
is 1/6
Half as many shots will wound a 2+ as 3+.
Also, hive tyrants with wings are ugly as hell.
Especially when people put fleshborer hives on them, I mean seriously, how does one of those things fly.
Don't say "well how does the harpy/crone/shrike/gargoyles fly?"
They have specialised hollow bones and gas bladders.

do you realize that most shots that have the strength to hurt the tyrant are gonna be Ap2? And being a FMC will make most of those shot not even hit through lack of skyfire (most skyfire shot are not ap3-2) while also making the tyrant four times faster than by walking, yes he can be grounded but as an overall the flyrant has more survivability than the walking armored carapace tyrant by making the nasty shot miss and not letting him shoot at him for as many turn since in 2 turns he can reach anywhere on the board whereas the armored carapace tyrant can be kited very easily and never do anything other then be a moving target..

My wave serpents arent ap 2 and they will take down your tyrant pretty darn easy.

**fartherthanfar**

Savageconvoy wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:

- stay out of sight and/or reach of his weapons. use the terrain to your advantage.

I don't see this really working to the nid advantage. Staying out of reach of Tau is insanely difficult, and hiding just limits the places you are able to put them. For an army that's main weakness is lacking long range power, I don't see this as a positive.

- give him other stuff to worry about

As a Tau player I don't see how this works to the Nid advantage. I looked through the book to see what I'd have to worry about the next time I went against a nid player, since there are a few in my area. I didn't find anything that scared me. I have a 115 point tank that is a hard counter to every big threat Nids can put out and I usually only brought it for marker lights. The Crone I literally thought was a typo since it actually manages to buff Missilesides and missile pods by having a 4+ and at T5 it gets wounded on 2's. The horde units don't even really bother me that much since Piranha with drones will mulch through them.

I'm not trying to brag about Tau, nor am I trying to really dog on the nids. As a Tau player I'm actually upset to see this. I literally have nothing to change in my list to handle what's supposed to be a changing meta. I have nothing to worry about or hard counter to face in the new army. 40K for all it's imperfections is supposed to work as an imbalanced game with the power creep slowly making things change. But then we have spikes like the Tau and Eldar with lows like the DA, CSM, and now the Nids that really manage to cement the current "OP" netlists as "OP" answers to everything.

staying out of reach of tau is difficult i will definitly agree, this is more of an option against non-tau. against tau ist about the other options i proposed

The Harpy got alot better than before, its got an extra wound, and an extra attack allowing for up to 3 smash attacks on the charge and its 10 pts cheaper. I'm happy with this.

I dont understand how you think that a skyray is a hard counter that will auto destroy us, yes its good but not "omg were dead" good

either way we all know tau are op at the moment

I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake, I do have eldar, tau, deamon and CSM opponents though, I just happen to have a cool group that will consciously choose to avoid what is know to be OP, unless we both agree to go as op as possible. and even against these I feel I could give them a good fight with the current codex.

**Fragile**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Tau and Eldar don't care about your 3+ cover save, and it's only T4 W2. A single overcharged ion accelerator blast will instant-death it and almost anything around it.

He fails to understand that its only a T4 model and only need 6 wounds on average to kill that precious Venom. We all know how hard 6 wounds is to do to a T4 model. ......

**SHUPPET**

You feel you know how to beat them, but you've never actually played against them. And you are in here giving advice to people who consistently have. Advice like "beat eldar and tau by staying out of sight and reach of his guns" "give him other stuff to worry about".

I don't even feel the first one dignifies a response, the second one is... what? Give them what to worry about? Start making innuendo towards them from across the table during the course of a game? Tell them you think they may have left their head lights on? What can you give them to worry about in game that you don't want getting shot down... it's all coming out of your points.

**Fragile**

fartherthanfar wrote:
I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake,

Then this explains a lot of your "advice".

**Makumba**

chaos0xomega wrote:
The problem is, everyone is looking at the new codex, seeing that very little changed, and thinking that because little changed in the book, little changed on the tabletop. I am pretty certain, that even though the changes were 'small', the actual end-result in gameplay will be a lot bigger than everyone realizes.

Makumba wrote:
Every codex that EVER came out eliminated choice from previous issues.

old chaos . Good Plague marines , oblits and flying Demon Princes.
new chaos .Good Plague marines , oblits and flying Demons Planes.

Heh, funny, I remember when the 5th edition CSM book came out everyone bitched about how obliterators were now the worst thing ever.... I also remember everyone bitching about how they were the worst thing ever when the 6th edition book came out... hmmmm....

From what I understand , in 4th ed they were better. Not heavy but elite . So people were runing 9 of them on top of 4 heavy support units from being IW. From that point of view they did get nerfed , but I could be wrong I didn't play in 4th ed . The new 6th ed oblits got hit by the nerf bat too , can keep using the same weapons , are no longer fearless .

One could say the same about the new nids . Is the new tyrants worse then he was before , probably yes , because the best set up for him dies too fast and synaps is more important then ever before . So one either has to run him in a weaker set up to keep the army going or go gung-ho with devityrants and see them drop like flies . Although I most say that focusing on ground MC and big deathstars isn't the same since codex INQ and escalation became legal .

**cvtuttle**

Earlier someone was stating how the initial reactions to the Eldar codex were much the same as we are seeing now...

Here is the thread from the Eldar Codex release

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/530477.page

and here are some of the similar comments:

Ravenous D wrote:
Just glancing through mine now and Im sure glad I didn't open the wraithknight because that think is crap for 300pts, I'd rather take 2 wraithlords.

besides that:
- Farseers: terrible, I rolled it out a bunch of times and sometimes got Doom fortune, the other powers just blow. I even rolled Eldrad and managed it a few times. If I cant rely on them getting good powers they are a waste of points.

-Warlocks: also terrible, seriously you cant rely on a solid battle plan with these things unless you are getting shrouding, and they cant even join wraithguard!

-Spiritseer: cheaper then I expected but otherwise good, 2 rolls on that table is better then one, still random but its better then nothing.

-Wraithguard/blades: No battle trance is a bummer, but I think having a unit of D scythes will be a combat deterrent unless your enemys want to lose half a unit on the way in. Overall happy with these guys.

-Wraithknight: Waste of points, 280pts for 3 s6 plasma cannon shots? Next.

-Jetbikes: Sweet Jesus, why are the models so bad because these things are busted.

Warpspiders: 6 + 2D6 + D6 + shoot + 2D6 move? Holy feth balls!! and they are S7 against vehicles and everything i3 and lower? Give me 30.

ShatteredBlade wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:
Since it was nearly an impossible task to make the codex worse, it is better now.

But they seem to have nerfed units that didn't needed nerf.
Buff units that didn't needed buff.
Missed to fix the assault problem.
And somehow left many units hanging with no idea what to do with them. (Like banshees, i mean what are they for now?)

Macok wrote:
zephoid wrote:
.... People really dont read do they. Someone stated that the cron codex was bitched about at first also. However, things like the Doom scythe and Wraiths were overlooked by many players until 6th for the doom scythe and the new wraith models for the wraiths. The eldar codex really doesnt have many "must takes" like those two models. He is pointing that out.

It's not about the "must takes" or units that are no-brainer-powerful. It's about looking at a codex and not seeing any strengths at all.
It's about bitching the whole codex is ruined and worst while completely ignoring the options that are good. And there are good options and they already have been stated here and in other topics that bloomed after codex release.
Just because it doesn't have "doom scythes" does not mean that it's "unplayable mess". It does not have to include those and at the same time not to be the worst thing ever.

JB_Man wrote:
Personally, I'm finding the Eldar codex to be very one-dimensional, and possibly overpowered. Jetbikes are just too cheap, now. Running 24 GJBs was a lot, before. That was all of my troops. It barely scratches the surface, now. I'm contemplating running 54 of them, while still having plenty or room to round out my lists. Honestly, I don't want to buy 30 more jetbikes (300 bucks MORE in jetbikes? lolno.), so GW can suck it, but it seems like a very reasonable thing to do. I can't imagine running anything else when the jetbikes are sooooo nasty.

bit81 wrote:
thoughts are eldar realy dont get alot for 2000pts
dont like dire avenger exarchs and most exarch since they no longer help the squad and hate that you have to buy a character in order to get pathfinders.

but thats about my only gripes with the codex that and the gaurdins still only getting a 12" range gun

apart from that its an ok codex not the most powerful codex to date (which it should be considering eldar are one of the oldest and most advance) but I do like some of the nice touches like the spinners and sheilds on the war walker and realy like the return to epic with the wave serpent being able to launch its sheild as a weapon

first games tonight with the new codex against imperial gaurd so will be vastly out numbered

Admittedly it doesn't look like the Nid Codex will be stomping all over Tau and Eldar....

But it's basically the same types or arguments all over again. Sorry it isn't what everyone was looking for and didnt live up to the BS rumors we all were believing.

Put your models on the table and roll some dice.

**Savageconvoy**

fartherthanfar wrote:

I dont understand how you think that a skyray is a hard counter that will auto destroy us, yes its good but not "omg were dead" good

It's base BS4, and has the ability to get BS5 on average or if it's lucky BS4 with ignoring cover. It has Skyfire built in. It has 6 missiles with long enough range that it can easily hit large MCs from a safe distance, at S8 it wounds just about everything on a 2+, at AP3 it will ignore armor. (With ignoring cover it will deal out an average of 3.33 wounds assuming T6 and less, SMS adding an additional .29 wounds )
The point is that it's cheap as dirt and it works good against things that are way more expensive than it. When it's out of missiles, it can still marker a FMC for things like missilesides.

**Andilus Greatsword**

fartherthanfar wrote:
I play casual games, never played against a wave serpent spam or triptide or screamerstar or triplle heldrake, I do have eldar, tau, deamon and CSM opponents though, I just happen to have a cool group that will consciously choose to avoid what is know to be OP, unless we both agree to go as op as possible. and even against these I feel I could give them a good fight with the current codex.

Well goody then, in that sort of environment, any Codex is "good". Unfortunately, we're talking about how the Codex stacks up against competitive or unknown opponents.

**fartherthanfar**

SHUPPET wrote:
You feel you know how to beat them, but you've never actually played against them. And you are in here giving advice to people who consistently have. Advice like "beat eldar and tau by staying out of sight and reach of his guns" "give him other stuff to worry about".

I don't even feel the first one dignifies a response, the second one is... what? Give them what to worry about? Start making innuendo towards them from across the table during the course of a game? Tell them you think they may have left their head lights on? What can you give them to worry about in game that you don't want getting shot down... it's all coming out of your points.

Actually I am not giving you advice on how to beat tau and eldar, im giving you advice on how to use tyranids as a whole, against any army, so obviously certain armies (especially the op ones) will avoid some of these strategies. and youre going to have to find what to do depending on whats on the board.

**kirsanth**

So the response to specific critiques is glittering generalities?

Next up, the complainers are not "strategic generals" and are "stuck in the previous codex" right?