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Revenant Pirate Crew






 Vertrucio wrote:
They're trading the short term ability to sell anything to everyone that signs up for a crate, not just the people that might want that particular miniature.

Only problem is, there's a lot of Warmachine stuff that's needed updating for a long time.

I can't fault them for remaking Omega Protocol, because I think PP has needed to successfully diversify it's portfolio for a long time, but most of their boardgames are kinda junk. Glad to see people liked this one.


Hopefully the new MonPoc does well. Y’all Do know MonPoc hit wide release last week, right?

 
   
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I have seen several people with it out, up from zero before. Have to see if it sticks around.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
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Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
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Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.


Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 AduroT wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:
They're trading the short term ability to sell anything to everyone that signs up for a crate, not just the people that might want that particular miniature.

Only problem is, there's a lot of Warmachine stuff that's needed updating for a long time.

I can't fault them for remaking Omega Protocol, because I think PP has needed to successfully diversify it's portfolio for a long time, but most of their boardgames are kinda junk. Glad to see people liked this one.


Hopefully the new MonPoc does well. Y’all Do know MonPoc hit wide release last week, right?


I know around here there's a lot of waiting for Dec when the base 6 stuff is out. I've been playing it pretty regularly with my old models though, and I'm really liking the new edition.

Omega Protocol was definitely a solid dungeon crawler. I think most of its dismissal came from being the sequel to the much less well received original. Even then, the original L7 is a pretty solid game, but it was released in the heart of the Kickstarter board game with hundreds of minis craze with cardboard standees from a company known for its miniatures. It would be pretty cool if they packed the two games together for the second edition, given their shared setting and all. The original would need some updating but would probably go over much better.
   
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Burbank, CA

Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.


Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?


Possibly by releasing more 'Extreme' units there? Or perhaps faction specific terrain? I'd be interested to hear as well.

, , , , , , ,

 
   
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Serious Squig Herder






Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.


Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?


Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.
   
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Mimetic Bagh-Mari





Sydney, Australia

Schmapdi wrote:
Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.


Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?


Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.


To be perfectly honest, I think PP are only releasing these games now because Warmahordes is a bloated carcass, and they've haemorrhaged so much they need to recoup sales in some way. Bringing back Monpoc is something people have asked for for ages, and now they're doing it to make back money. Same deal with the lootcrates, promoting blind impulse buying because they're limited runs that will never come back

As an ex player of both PP and GW, I think they're both doing the same things for different reasons. PP are bringing the games back to desperately clutch at customers because they're slipping down the ladder rapidly, while GW are using the expanded game sets to bring in customers from all different walks of life and keeping them there. It's important to note that the GW games are all different in scale and cost, so you can accommodate different player types and budgets, while PP is all expensive blisters and boxes, so you're not spending much less to play Monpoc compared to Warmahordes. That means anyone priced out of Warmahordes is priced out of Monpoc as well

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Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

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Schmapdi wrote:
Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
God I wish PP would actually use Kickstarter to improve Warmahordes.


Out of interest, how do you think PP could use Kickstarter to "improve WM/H"?


Any number of ways. Can you imagine how much money they'd make (and what a huge audience they'd reach) if they just did a Kickstarter to start producing battleboxes in HIPS? Or during the KS for their (awful) video game they made - everyone got super excited for a bit when one of the stretch goals was for cross faction warcasters - until it was revealed to just be skins for the game. Or even something as simple as producing a fluff anthology book, that, back when they had forums, people used make threads asking for 3-4X a week.

I mean, I like the looks of Monpoc (and I think it's smart, and badly needed for PP to diversify) but I also feel like there's 0 excitement for WM/H right now and as good an idea as diversifying is I don't think it's smart to let your flagship product spin it's wheels while you revisit that board game series that nobody really cared about.


I understand. I did wonder from your post whether you meant that PP should do all their CID/updates via kickstarter?? But that is clearly not what you meant

On the rest of your post, I will admit upfront to being a PP and WM/H fanboy. But id disagree that there is 0 excitement for WM/H right now. I am actually seeing huge growth in the game after the huge knock it took due to mishandling of the Mk3 launch. This probably isn’t the thread to talk about how the community is changing and the positivity within it. But after a very painful year it appears to have recovered and moved forward. The issue is that as a game we are very insular. We keep to our own forums, FB group and chats. We don’t socialise on other wargaming forums. We need to be better at that, selling our game to the wider community and being seen to be more open.

As for the plastic Battle Boxes and the material. All the ones I have had and seen (trolls and cryx for me, al the rest for my mates) have been good enough for a starter set. When painted (and I am a reasonable painter) they look decent. TBH id rather that PP looked at their overall proving than the material in their BB’s
   
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 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes


Far as I know that was supposition. We know there had been talk of a movie deal, but nothing ever came from it. The collectible version of the game kind of died out. They started to bring it back as a non-collectible thing then suddenly stopped and went radio silent. To my knowledge they never discussed why it stopped like it did, but there were rumors of a botched movie contract that gave away the rights to the IP. Either way, it’s back now. Read thru the rules and it’s like 95% the same as I remember it. Running some demos later today at the FLGS and rather looking forward to it.

 
   
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How awkward will it be when the Level 7 KS doesn’t fund?
   
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 AduroT wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop. As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes


Far as I know that was supposition. We know there had been talk of a movie deal, but nothing ever came from it. The collectible version of the game kind of died out. They started to bring it back as a non-collectible thing then suddenly stopped and went radio silent. To my knowledge they never discussed why it stopped like it did, but there were rumors of a botched movie contract that gave away the rights to the IP. Either way, it’s back now. Read thru the rules and it’s like 95% the same as I remember it. Running some demos later today at the FLGS and rather looking forward to it.


No it was optioned and then re-optioned by a different studio 2 years ago. Options don't mean a movie is going to get made, just that someone is paying you not to let someone else make a movie based of your idea. Generally it's because that production company wants to make a movie based off of your material but it can also be used to make sure there's no competition to a movie you want to make.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/monsterpocalypse-movie-warner-bros-wins-890002 (from 2016)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/10 18:22:56


 
   
Made in us
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 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.


As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

'Always' is a weird word to use. In this particular case I have absolutely no idea what you mean by it, as PP started with schlock d20 RPG books in 2000, Warmachine started in 2003 and their first board game, Bodgers, didn't happen until 2013.
So 'always' in this case would have to mean '5 years ago' and 'less than a third of the lifespan of the company.'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/10 18:32:00


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Been Around the Block





Voss wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.


As for their boardgames they've always had them alongside Warmachine/Hordes

'Always' is a weird word to use. In this particular case I have absolutely no idea what you mean by it, as PP started with schlock d20 RPG books in 2000, Warmachine started in 2003 and their first board game, Bodgers, didn't happen until 2013.
So 'always' in this case would have to mean '5 years ago' and 'less than a third of the lifespan of the company.'


Grind (a boardgame) came out in 2009.

Also, Monsterpocalypse was actually a pretty great game (but there's no accounting for taste), with some pretty poor unit miniatures, but the monsters themselves weren't bad (but again, the taste thing).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/10 19:19:12


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.

I was just under the impression (especially from the starter box I bought) that it was just a terrible game with incredibly poor quality minis and they rightfully just discontinued it.
Bringing it back is rather baffling.

I do not know where to begin on this one...

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.

I'm really liking what I've played of the new edition so far. Almost nothing's changed, but the tweaks they've made help focus the game on the monsters and if nothing else, getting away from the mind bogglingly abysmal icon system finally makes the game approachable and teachable. I think it won't really launch until December when the first set is really available, but I'm excited to play it again. It's been a favorite I've continued to play even after the original died.
   
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KSer up https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/level-7-omega-protocol-board-game-2nd-edition

About a 3rd to funding. Not backing myself but since no one has posted the link I figured I would.

$20 pledge for existing owners to get new stuff.

$90 base pledge

$125 Everytihng pledge.

New rule book, so this is a 2.0, and the minis are being made with a better PVC mix over their old bendy crap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 18:59:53


 
   
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 LunarSol wrote:

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.
I don't think MonPoc was really healthy (the repackaging into blind buy army packs was fatally flawed and the increasing reliance on super rare and exclusives are just bad business), but I don't think it would've gone down the way it did without outside influence. I mean, they literally just stopped. They went from showing in production models for the next wave to not even admitting the game ever existed. This makes me think it was a rights issue rather than a prepaint issue.
   
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 Sqorgar wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:

Anyway, MonPoc died because it was a prepaint and all the prepaints died when that market ceased to be viable. They repackaged their existing stock to see if it could work without the blind purchase angle but it really didn't have much of a chance of justifying production of new models. As for why its back? I assume the renewed interest in the film rights is part of it, but likely PP settling on their resin production is a big part of it as well.
I don't think MonPoc was really healthy (the repackaging into blind buy army packs was fatally flawed and the increasing reliance on super rare and exclusives are just bad business), but I don't think it would've gone down the way it did without outside influence. I mean, they literally just stopped. They went from showing in production models for the next wave to not even admitting the game ever existed. This makes me think it was a rights issue rather than a prepaint issue.


That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option. Anyway, here's 100k stop making your game". Maybe they got bamboozled into selling the game rights to bigger players if the movie got made but that would still seam stupid unless they got a good cut of potential merch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 19:32:00


 
   
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 Monkeysloth wrote:

That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option.
From what I understand, the movie was moving ahead with Tim Burton and ended up getting shelved because Pacific Rim released (and didn't do well). What seems most likely is that they were preparing movie models based on preproduction sketches, which they couldn't share due to NDA. When that fell through, all work on future waves would've been thrown away. Of course, it could just be that the line flat out failed and they couldn't say anything about it because it would affect the value of the IP. Whatever the case, it seems likely there was an NDA in place that affected communication regardless of whether the movie deal outright killed the game.

Whatever the case, MonPoc was always my favorite PP product and the way it ended was baffling. It's back now, and I guess so am I.
   
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SoCal

I like the designs for the new minis. Not enough to pledge, but I'll keep an eye out for the retail release.

   
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 Sqorgar wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:

That would be the dumbest movie option deal ever and if it's the case PP should have sued it's lawyer. "Hey we want to make a movie about you game but as part of the option you have to stop making the game. There's no garuntee we'll make the movie, we might, or we might just sit on it for 5 years like 90% of the stuff we option.
From what I understand, the movie was moving ahead with Tim Burton and ended up getting shelved because Pacific Rim released (and didn't do well). What seems most likely is that they were preparing movie models based on preproduction sketches, which they couldn't share due to NDA. When that fell through, all work on future waves would've been thrown away. Of course, it could just be that the line flat out failed and they couldn't say anything about it because it would affect the value of the IP. Whatever the case, it seems likely there was an NDA in place that affected communication regardless of whether the movie deal outright killed the game.

Whatever the case, MonPoc was always my favorite PP product and the way it ended was baffling. It's back now, and I guess so am I.


If it got far enough along that privateer was making game figures off of the movie concept I could see how that hurt them as that would be shared designs with the production company and either PP had to dump all of that work or the licensing fees to use it would have been more then they could justify without the movie. That could have been a huge financial hit that could have killed off the line. Even without any loss of money having to decided if you want to have a game out there in this hobby that get's no updates for a year as they redesign everything.

I know a lot of people with their IP optioned for movies. Having a director attached still doesn't mean the movie will get made, it increases it chances but still might be less then a 50%-50% though it depends on the director as some don't attach unless they plan on making something others will attach and then drop things. Basically until pre-production starts (casting and such) it's still a low bet. Even getting concept art and script done doesn't mean the movie will make it past that state. Kind of sucks for PP as they got caught in movie studios "no loss to us, it's all other people's money" with this kind of thing.
   
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 Overread wrote:
Far as I recall Monster Apoc was tangled up with some movie rights for a long while and that either prevented or heavily discouraged them from returning it to the tabletop.


I recall them saying this as well. Something about Tim Burton buying the rights, but while they were in preproduction Pacific Rim came out, and they decided to wait & or cancel the whole thing. Other's have presented that the majority of the reason it ended was due to high production costs, which is completely believable. However, as I thought about it, it seems strange that a company would buy the rights to something they saw as successful, then tell the creators to 'stop' doing it. I remember something about them saying it would be 'relaunched, with a new movie, but still, why STOP making it up to that point? You can relaunch at any time, plus, you'll still have your current audience ready to go with all the new people coming in. I'm not saying the rights weren't purchased, but, I think it was a cover up.

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly. A new version of the game is totally acceptable, and makes sense really, after all this time, but just like AoS, the 'RIP THE BANDAID' approach, just doesn't work with this kind of stuff. Whereas, AoS basically completely rewrote the rules and changed the background of Warhammer fantasy, they still allowed you to use your old figures (albeit, they did completely rechange the basing). PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style. The smart move (in my mind) would have been to just create completely new characters for these existing factions, and allow people to use their old figures in the game. Give everything rules, but start the game over with new stuff working with the old stuff. Eventually, if the game does well, you can redo the old prepaint characters in resin, and lots of people will be rebuy the character, just cause it will look better (better yet, make a 'new' version of the old character, with slightly different rules, and allow folks to build them as either the new version, or the old one, then old players will still buy it, while new people can make the old characters also). To AoS's credit, most of the new stuff they made, was just that 'new stuff'. New characters, armies, terrain, everything! And where as the first stuff they released felt very cliched (Medieval Space Marines and more Khorne cultists), they've created some amazing new ideas that I really like. Monpoc needs to coarse correct, and allow old figures, and create new characters.

The 'size difference' is really just BS. Line of sight just isn't a thing in Monpoc, there's no penalty or benefit to how big or small you are, it's all based on distance. Here's an excerpt from the rulebook.
Blast attacks cannot be blocked by other models.
Monsters are too big to hide behind anything,
and even the smallest units can be detected by the
sophisticated systems and instincts of their enemies.




From the official FAQ
Can I use my original Monsterpocalypse figures in the new game?

Due to the difference in scale, original Monsterpocalypse figures will not work in the new game. All official Monsterpocalypse tournaments and events will require players to use the new hobby models for play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 20:50:58


, , , , , , ,

 
   
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 skullking wrote:

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly.

Well, can you blame them? If you have a bunch of the old figures and buildings (like I do), you have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of models that you won't have to rebuy. How are they supposed to launch a game when their biggest fans don't have to spend any money on it?

I also think a big part of it is to reduce confusion for new players. If I didn't know the difference between the old and new MonPoc, I'd look at those terrible prepaints with all the confusing symbols on the base and think that represented the game. If I were in charge, I'd make an effort to distance myself from those models as well. I mean look at the picture you posted. The MonPoc 1.0 model looks like a cheap toy (which it is) compared to the MonPoc 2.0 model right next to it.

PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style.
This also makes sense to me. This isn't a new game. It's a reboot of a game that a lot of people liked, that had favorite factions and models. I'd honestly be disappointed if they didn't remake my favorite models. New stuff will come soon enough - and I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.
   
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UK

Honestly I can see a company like PP signing a contract with a film company that did stop them producing until the film came out.

Consider that in Hollywood Terms PP is a stickleback fish - its tiny and pretty insignificant compared to the megabucks world of Hollywood. So a film company is going to likely be the bigger party in any dealings and thus gets to call more of the shots - and one might well have been that the film wanted to be the big bang event without PP having any pre-release or hinted at releases that were outside of the films marketing system.

That all sounds fine, PP's product gets put on hold for a while whilst htey develop new sculpts for the film then the film gets close to launch and they start up marketing then BAM the film launches and sales go through the roof for a few weeks/months.


Only the film never came. PP wouldn't be the first to end up stuck with rights tangled up with a film studio. Many authors and script writers have been equally caught in nasty tangles where their creations end up tangled up in legal contacts that never come to fruition but are still legally binding for long periods. Heck it might just be PP were ignorant when agreeing and found themselves in a contract that was weighted very heavily against them; or at the negociation table the potential money on the table from the film was so great that they bent over backward (esp if Mon Apoc at the time wasn't a top seller nor part of their primary income). Ergo they took a gamble and lost.

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Sydney, Australia

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.


Prepare for disappointment then, they've pretty much explicitly confirmed on their streams recently that they're doing 1-2 monsters each current faction, then reintroducing the others slowly. With how the factions are now under "allegiances" though it means you can really use anything together on one side, although you lose synergies doing so (sound familiar? It's exactly what's killing Warmachine, but done in a way that isn't cancerous to the game)

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Burbank, CA

Sqorgar wrote:
 skullking wrote:

Similarly, I feel the relaunch was done poorly, since they blatantly want to distance themselves from all the old figures. I get that they don't want to make all the prepaints again, but to say they're 'unusable' with the current game is just silly.

Well, can you blame them? If you have a bunch of the old figures and buildings (like I do), you have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of models that you won't have to rebuy. How are they supposed to launch a game when their biggest fans don't have to spend any money on it?

I'm going to use them as an example a lot here, but GW did this exact thing with 8th ed. 40k. Completely new reboot of the game, made new rules for miniatures that are 30+ years old, and added completely new miniatures. seemed to work ok.

That aside, the major thing they need are players. Having a base of players who know and love the game, already equipped with the models to play it is HUGE! People who had space marine and CSM armies bought Pramaris and Death Guard to the point that you couldn't even get the models. The only time this has ever happened to me with PP's stuff, is with the new Man-o-war models that just came out, and the original Monpoc.

I also think a big part of it is to reduce confusion for new players. If I didn't know the difference between the old and new MonPoc, I'd look at those terrible prepaints with all the confusing symbols on the base and think that represented the game. If I were in charge, I'd make an effort to distance myself from those models as well. I mean look at the picture you posted. The MonPoc 1.0 model looks like a cheap toy (which it is) compared to the MonPoc 2.0 model right next to it.

This I could see having been an issue, the symbols on the base, and the Hyper/Mega/Quantum forms being particularly confusing (and now useless) to most new players. But again, with a rules reboot, everyone starts back at 1. If you want to understand it, you will put in the effort to get it. Especially if there are a bunch of folks who already have models to play, you won't have as big an issue finding an opponent, and you can learn the game quicker.

Of course the resin and metal miniatures look better, but then again you're paying twice as much for the figures, which you also have to assemble and paint. The original MonPoc was made to be easily accessible to people (though the billions of mini dice were a bit much), this one requires much more dedication and skill to get into. GW's intro stuff needs painting, but everything is snap fit, so you can play right away. This is basically handing a new player a bunch of forgeworld stuff and saying "Assemble everything here, then you can try the game.". I also think you're underestimating how many returning players wouldn't buy the new models. How many of us bought the new 40k, or AoS starter sets? If I started playing Monpoc with old models, and really liked it, I'd certainly upgrade to the newer ones in time, I think most people would. I had plenty of plague marines, but I bought a bunch of the new Death Guard cause THEY LOOK AMAZING! I could have used any of my old 1st/2nd/3rd ed/ Forgeworld Death Guard instead, but, I wanted to get the new ones.

Also, I think you're missing one of my points, that they blatantly state the old figures won't work due to their 'size', when in their own rules, that doesn't even effect the game at all.

PP is saying your old figures are no good, and then went on to 'remake' the same characters from the original game in this new style.
This also makes sense to me. This isn't a new game. It's a reboot of a game that a lot of people liked, that had favorite factions and models. I'd honestly be disappointed if they didn't remake my favorite models. New stuff will come soon enough - and I'm kind of hoping that the first of the new stuff will be new monsters in the established factions, rather than hitting the second wave of factions from MonPoc 1.0.


They came up with plenty of new monsters for all the factions once, they can come up with a few more to launch the game. I don't feel that you'd have to change the aesthetic of the faction too much to make a new creature which embodies the theme. Old players would see something new, new players wouldn't know the difference. Or, just like I stated earlier, make it a dual kit with one new monster, and one classic. If they came out the gate right away stating that they didn't want to have people use the old figures due to the confusing symbols and what not, they should have just stated that. Perhaps a nice "We'd appreciate that if you want to bring the old models to tournaments, that you cover the base symbols and only use the 'base/painted' form of each monster. Perhaps you could remove the old Hyper form of your monster from it's base (NEW MONPOC BASES PACK, ONLY $9.99!), rebase it, and give it a whole new paint job as well!" Instead, we got "The old Monsters are too tiny! NO SOUP FOR YOU!".

Overread wrote:Honestly I can see a company like PP signing a contract with a film company that did stop them producing until the film came out.

Consider that in Hollywood Terms PP is a stickleback fish - its tiny and pretty insignificant compared to the megabucks world of Hollywood. So a film company is going to likely be the bigger party in any dealings and thus gets to call more of the shots - and one might well have been that the film wanted to be the big bang event without PP having any pre-release or hinted at releases that were outside of the films marketing system.

That all sounds fine, PP's product gets put on hold for a while whilst they develop new sculpts for the film then the film gets close to launch and they start up marketing then BAM the film launches and sales go through the roof for a few weeks/months.


Only the film never came. PP wouldn't be the first to end up stuck with rights tangled up with a film studio. Many authors and script writers have been equally caught in nasty tangles where their creations end up tangled up in legal contacts that never come to fruition but are still legally binding for long periods. Heck it might just be PP were ignorant when agreeing and found themselves in a contract that was weighted very heavily against them; or at the negociation table the potential money on the table from the film was so great that they bent over backward (esp if Monpoc at the time wasn't a top seller nor part of their primary income). Ergo they took a gamble and lost.


This could be, and Tim Burton is totally known for sitting on properties and never doing anything with them (ever heard of 'Dinosaurs Attack'? He bought the rights to it, when he got 'Mars Attacks'. This also tells me he's been wanting to do a Kaiju movie for awhile). That said, I can't think of many properties which a studio would buy and not capitalize on while they're HOT! I've worked in entertainment/hollywood/The 'biz' for close to 20 years, and the things that get squirreled away and left for later are typically unknown or long outdated. But then again, PP doesn't seem to want to give us an honest answer with a lot of this stuff, so it's really all just conjecture.

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 skullking wrote:
Of course the resin and metal miniatures look better, but then again you're paying twice as much for the figures, which you also have to assemble and paint.
The resin miniatures are about $25, while the blind packs were $15 (ten years ago). But you don't get to decide what you want with a blind pack. Compare the price of getting Defender X now with what it would've cost to get Defender X then and I think you'll find that maybe the new MonPoc is actually cheaper.

The original MonPoc was made to be easily accessible to people (though the billions of mini dice were a bit much), this one requires much more dedication and skill to get into.
It wasn't though. You basically had to collect everything, even if you were only interested in one faction. For instance, I was looking at my old collection to proxy until I assembled my new models, and it turns out that I didn't have 4 tanks total among the hundred+ models I had. I never got the Cthul DMZ pack, so I only have like 5 Cthul units total. As near as I can tell, it would be a practical impossibility to field just one faction in MonPoc 1.0. And if you were a collector, waves 4 and 5 included super rares that required multiple cases to collect. So you couldn't get what you wanted and you couldn't get everything - MonPoc 1.0 required too much dedication to get the experience you wanted. Having to put the models together is simple in comparison.

This is basically handing a new player a bunch of forgeworld stuff and saying "Assemble everything here, then you can try the game.". I also think you're underestimating how many returning players wouldn't buy the new models.
The move to a hobby game has been VERY unpopular with old players, but that's kind of what PP does. Resin models are kind of their trade now. In a year or two, if MonPoc gets a decent following, then PP can release a newbie friendly starter set with easy build or one piece PVC models, but MonPoc 2.0 is not geared towards that audience (right now). PP just isn't set up to do that across a whole product line, so I can't blame them with sticking with their expertise and (initially) targeting their loyal audience.

Also, I think you're missing one of my points, that they blatantly state the old figures won't work due to their 'size', when in their own rules, that doesn't even effect the game at all.
It's bs, but they have to say something. They can't just say "the old models are crappy and will make our game look crappy, and also, you won't buy anything because you already own the next three years of releases".

But then again, PP doesn't seem to want to give us an honest answer with a lot of this stuff, so it's really all just conjecture.
Maybe they can't give an honest answer. Hollywood is dark and full of lawyers.
   
Made in us
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There’s no way to do the game as prepaints anymore. It either has to be a hobby game or nothing at all.

It would probably would have been a good game for preassembled plastic similar to what steamforged does, but PP got burned pretty hard on overseas manufacturing and seems pretty set on in house these days.
   
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I hope the Omega Protocol 2.0 funds. I own the game and like it, so putting down $20 for the upgrades seems like a no-brainer to me.

"There is no right to a climate system capable of sustaining human life"
Captain Planet villain or a Trumpean lawyer? 
   
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Burbank, CA

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's bs,


Agreed.

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