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Also, it's $40 bucks for 12 pages of rules, maybe 3 pages worth of which are situationally useful, and Arch-Contaminator is still far and away the best warlord trait.

There's a page of just Very Good stuff but man, $40.

Don't buy it?

 Jidmah wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you're trying to be positive about it. Several things that should've been there to begin with cost a bunch of CP.

Not sure what exactly you were expecting out of a PA? Have you not read any of the previous books?

Psychic awakening has been highly variable in what it does rules wise for armies.

It wasn't though? The list of things a PA adds to its respective armies is: stratagems, warlord traits, relics, relics for non-characters, psychic powers, alternate sub-faction rules and maybe a model or two. Not a single PA changed any existing army rules or updated all datasheets. The only way PA impacts units that did not get new models were through stratagems or relics.
Yet, here we have slayer whining in six(!) threads in parallel about how it surprisingly was not a codex 2.0 and instead "just" a PA that went above and beyond what any DG player would have expected, ticking off almost every point on every wish list and even more. DG were successfully brought up to the same level where all the other chaos legions are. The only thing one that could have been but wasn't would be getting new psychic powers - however, neither did any of the other chaos marines.

Slayer is just being negative for negativity's sake, he wasn't involved in any of the DG topics of the last years, so I seriously doubt he is qualified to judge this update at all. I mean, look at his posts, he is raging about two stratagems that every DG player just skipped over because they will never take them - in between dozens of great stratagems which are so great you will use them every game.

However, the issue is NONE of the rules have been equal or helped everyone equally.

Take a look at the endless stuff Marines got, what AdMech got, etc. They got extra stuff thethey didn't need. What Death Guard got was stuff that should've been there in the first place and you end up paying CP for. Then we got players acting grateful!

Also you guys can pretend you'll use a lot of the Strats, but you won't. It's just as bad a release as the Thousand Sons one.

Well if you are grateful for getting things they should have had in the first place it sends the message that GW can make players happy by giving them those things.

If you are ungrateful that GW gave you things you should have had in the first place that tells GW that players do not care if they fix problems.

Come to think of it GWs actions make a lot more sense in that light. Players are so bitchy even when they do address problems that GW gets a repeated message of "we do not want you to fix these!"

So thanks for that you salties

stratigo wrote:
Some factions got subfactions that consisted of actual rules you didn't have to do anything to activate. Some didn't. Some factions got a build your own subfaction tool. Some didn't.

DG are a subfaction themselves, it was to be expected that they would not get something to replace their legion trait.

Some factions got new units and rules. Some didn't.

So... outside of AdMech, who got more than a character release? Vanguard marines weren't new, which make up the bulk of datasheets printed in PA.
With Fabius Bile announced, it was absolutely clear that DG would not be getting a character release.

So, it was absolutely clear what kind of changes to expect from PA and GW totally nailed it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Death Guard got was stuff that should've been there in the first place and you end up paying CP for.

So, put your money where your mouth is, your one chance to prove that you are not a notoriously negative old guy yelling at windmills.

What stratagem(s) exactly are you referring to. Please provide both the stratagem and a reasoning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Also, it's $40 bucks for 12 pages of rules, maybe 3 pages worth of which are situationally useful, and Arch-Contaminator is still far and away the best warlord trait.

There's a page of just Very Good stuff but man, $40.

I paid ~$30, and that is quite cheap compared to players that had to buy Codex 1.0, Codex 2.0, Vigilus, Chapter Supplement and PA for their army.

Also note that the book allows you to have as many warlord traits as you want.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Don't buy it?

Fair point, all the relevant rules are on page 12 I guess.

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What Death Guard got was stuff that should've been there in the first place and you end up paying CP for.

So, put your money where your mouth is, your one chance to prove that you are not a notoriously negative old guy yelling at windmills.

What stratagem(s) exactly are you referring to. Please provide both the stratagem and a reasoning.

Contaminated Monstrosity. Chaos Lords and Chaos Sorcerers should have had Disgustingly Resilient from day one (and it shouldn't cost CP).

Or how about Unholy Essence - we can give Inexorable Advance to our vehicles, when almost every other faction gets to apply their Chapter Tactic-equivalent to all of their models for free?

I would even argue Trench Fighters, which allows Plague Marines to make extra attacks with their plague knives. Of all the cult troops, Plague Marines are the only one which become noticeably worse at melee than previous incarnations (2 attacks which always wound on 4s in 7th edition and prior, down to 1 attack each which can reroll 1s to wound...)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well if you are grateful for getting things they should have had in the first place it sends the message that GW can make players happy by giving them those things.

If you are ungrateful that GW gave you things you should have had in the first place that tells GW that players do not care if they fix problems.

Come to think of it GWs actions make a lot more sense in that light. Players are so bitchy even when they do address problems that GW gets a repeated message of "we do not want you to fix these!"

So thanks for that you salties

I'm talking at base cost. LoCs should already give a reroll 1s aura. You shouldn't need to spend 1CP a turn for up to THREE vehicles to get Inexorable Advance, which in turn locks you out of a bunch of stuff for reasons.

 MinMax wrote:
Contaminated Monstrosity. Chaos Lords and Chaos Sorcerers should have had Disgustingly Resilient from day one (and it shouldn't cost CP).

You mean the stratagem that allows Defilers, Land Raiders, Possessed and Helbrutes to gain DR? No one will use these to give DR to chaos lords and sorcerers.

Or how about Unholy Essence - we can give Inexorable Advance to our vehicles, when almost every other faction gets to apply their Chapter Tactic-equivalent to all of their models for free?

Almost every other faction, except every single army with the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword. Oh, and it actually would have been a decent stratagem for PBC, defilers or predators if 9th weren't around the corner. It's also a significant upgrade from the stratagem DG had before, which gives one(!) vehicle a worse variant of inexorable advance.

I would even argue Trench Fighters, which allows Plague Marines to make extra attacks with their plague knives. Of all the cult troops, Plague Marines are the only one which become noticeably worse at melee than previous incarnations (2 attacks which always wound on 4s in 7th edition and prior, down to 1 attack each which can reroll 1s to wound...)

You do know that you can equip your plague marines to be significantly deadlier in melee than they were before? Besides that, trench fighters is a probably one of the worst stratagem


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm talking at base cost. LoCs should already give a reroll 1s aura.

Why? He provided another aura to DG unit. It sucked due to its timing, but there is no reason for every HQ to provide a re-roll aura.
With the investment of 1 CP you now get a character that is vastly superior to a terminator lord, not only gaining a second aura, but also a great weapon, 1 toughness and DR in comparison.
It's very much an equivalent to the Space Marine's Chapter Command stratagems.

You shouldn't need to spend 1CP a turn for up to THREE vehicles to get Inexorable Advance, which in turn locks you out of a bunch of stuff for reasons.

Oh, really?
Big Guns Never Tire, Codex: Space Marines
Rage of the Machines, Codex: Adeptus Mechnicus
Blasphemous Machines, Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Unholy Essence is three times as good as these regularly use stratagem, and oddly their codices didn't suck.
It also doesn't lock your out of anything, if you take the Inexorable as your plague fleet you most likely do so for their warlord trait and relic, not for their stratagems.

In addition, there are 20 more stratagems in the book, as well as 6 more plague fleets. Do you concede that you have no clue what your are talking about?