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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ok, with the removal of Stranglehold and To the Last from the list of secondary objectives along with the change to Scry Futures, where should the focus be now?

RND seems like a no brainer, or I guess banners?

I guess I'm having difficulty coming up with a good list of secondaries that don't feel like I have to rely on luck to achieve.

Any advice here?
   
Made in us
Walking Dead Wraithlord






Have there been any changes to the psychic based secondaries ?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes, Scry Futures now requires that you control the point to be able to activate the psychic action.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Wow! Why did we get a point increase!? Hello!? Everything went up in points! Thanks Games workshop! Cus Ealdar were winning so many Tournaments! Guess im waiting till 10th edition! Literally 150 points taken from my 1 good list. Someone please tell me a single good thing these changes have done. im done try 'in to make a competitive Space elf army in 9th.
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






goodman111 wrote:
Wow! Why did we get a point increase!? Hello!? Everything went up in points! Thanks Games workshop! Cus Ealdar were winning so many Tournaments! Guess im waiting till 10th edition! Literally 150 points taken from my 1 good list. Someone please tell me a single good thing these changes have done. im done try 'in to make a competitive Space elf army in 9th.


Invalidates lists and builds, makes people buy more models.. people build lists... list get invalidated .. people buy more models... and so on

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





Apart from Tyranids Eldar are probably the second strongest army in the game, though this is mostly due to hail of doom which is probably getting nerfed in the dataslate tomorrow.
The problem is that they're a tough army to play well. It's pretty easy to screw up and lose too many assets and then the game.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Tyranids and tau were dominating but were dominating which is why the tournament scene reflected so many nid winners both have been heavily nerfed by about 10%

The problem is above 50% armies like craftworlds were having there win percentage suppressed by these factions without some craftworld nerfs you would have quickly found aeldari were the new tau as their win percentage would rise with those nerfs

Many of the others factions being 40-45% by comparison given how overpowered nids and tau were

Nerfs were needed for balance

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/23 00:13:10


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

U02dah4 wrote:
Tyranids and tau were dominating but were dominating which is why the tournament scene reflected so many nid winners both have been heavily nerfed by about 10%

The problem is above 50% armies like craftworlds were having there win percentage suppressed by these factions without some craftworld nerfs you would have quickly found aeldari were the new tau as their win percentage would rise with those nerfs

Many of the others factions being 40-45% by comparison given how overpowered nids and tau were

Nerfs were needed for balance


I would agree Nids got hit 8-10%, I think typical tournament lists are up 150pts. My Tau however went up 389 points... Geez (now I need to run something completely different). Not saying its wrong to get nerfed, but it might be a bit much. I wasn't even sure Eldar should have had anything done to them.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I guess they really don't like Eldar...

4 Nerfs in the new dataslate drop...

Hail of Doom takes both Far Flung slots

Eldritch Storm now requires LOS to empower and is nerfed from a 2+ to hit to a 4+ to hit

Matchless Agility is now a reroll instead of a value of 6

And Fire and Fade is Once per game

Ouch....
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, as a perk you don't need to empower Eldritch Storm at all anymore since they removed the effect of buffing it from the paragraph... So, you don't need line of sight to use it, but you do need line of sight to use the psychic action that doesn't do anything. (til they fix that wording anyway)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




True... I guess I was just hoping that the Warlock Unit entry would get Core... seeing as they can't really benefit from their own powers and all
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





Hail of doom did need something and that is probably the best way of doing it. Eldritch storm also needed something but at 3cp it's probably too swingy, 3+ would have been a better solution.
The other two seem a bit dumb, especially the fire and fade nerf since other elves can still fire and fade to their hearts content.

 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

Where is it located?

   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Personally I don't mind the changes and I think they were all reasonable in light of the power of our book. I don't even play competitive lists and I could feel how good the book was. And face it, all of the aspect warriors were under-costed. I mean I am glad dire avengers didn't get a 2 point increase only one.

The problem with being an top book though is the few models in our army that are a bit sub-optimal didn't get any help. Personally I think shining spears are like 2 or 3 points to much for what they do, and war-walkers could probably use a reduction by like 5 points base. Also the star cannon is way over costed on everything.

I am super happy with the hail of doom "nerf" as I would gladly give away my second trait to keep it the same. It is that good. The one that will really hurt is the change to Matchless Agility as I used that basically every turn. Silver lining though, now I only need to use it if I roll poorly, which might help when CP will be much more limited. Fire and Fade was super good and the limitation is reasonable. Again with the CP change probably wasn't really going to get used more than once or twice a battle now anyway so no real loss.

I think we actually got off pretty easy, especially compared to Tau, Nids, and Harlies.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Well certainly not all aspects are undercosted. Dark Reapers are pretty underwhelming and Crimson Hunters cost a bit much... (a lil bit more now) Overall, though, I do agree that most aspect warriors are quite good for the cost even now.

I think Core on a few units like Walkers would be nice, but that's such a power swing in this codex thanks to Doom...
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I dont know what lists you guys have been playing, but if i was not rocking a perfect gun-line, or a hail of doom bike list.
My 80% of my army was picked up in 2 turns. most of it in mele turn 2. Because only Jain'Zar can fight 1st most of the time.
i could focus on objective points, but again, you have 2 turns before any good mele units are at your doorstep. These changes imo brought us down to the bottom next too Orks.

Each change they have done these past 2 months has been a huge kick in the balls.

Cya in 10th fellas.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






goodman111 wrote:
I dont know what lists you guys have been playing, but if i was not rocking a perfect gun-line, or a hail of doom bike list.
My 80% of my army was picked up in 2 turns. most of it in mele turn 2. Because only Jain'Zar can fight 1st most of the time.
i could focus on objective points, but again, you have 2 turns before any good mele units are at your doorstep. These changes imo brought us down to the bottom next too Orks.

Each change they have done these past 2 months has been a huge kick in the balls.

Cya in 10th fellas.


What is your list? I've seen full melee lists too insanely well too. Banshees, Scorps, SS, are all great.

   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





My main list has no more then one of any unit other than two serpents and two guardian squads. So not broken list. I also have used scorpions and they are fantastic. If you are running close combat and not bikes or gun line none of the balance sheet should effect you at all as no hail and the strats don’t allow charges after. So only the points which did not really go up that much. What is your list?
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Man Dakka really has gotten full of casuals huh.

Came here for a competitive discussion and all I see is "yea I don't play competitively but...".

Do casuals even need to discuss tactics haha.

Trying to figure out how to compete with Eldar with these nerfs is going to be very very hard. Eldar just die in the open, and now we are forced to stay in open. Sweeeetttt

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





The thing to remember with craftworlds is that we are fragile in the extreme. You cannot stay in the open unless you've worn your opponent down significantly. The first couple of turns need to be cautious, using battle focus to keep your stuff safe. Melee units probably being kept in your pocket for counter charging rather than taking the initiative, unless your opponent misplayed and it's worth sacrificing a unit of banshees, for example.
Don't be afraid to go behind in points, within limits of course, keeping enough alive to play all five turns is usually a better strategy than going all in and trying to hold onto a lead, at least in my experience.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Man Dakka really has gotten full of casuals huh.

Came here for a competitive discussion and all I see is "yea I don't play competitively but...".

Do casuals even need to discuss tactics haha.

Trying to figure out how to compete with Eldar with these nerfs is going to be very very hard. Eldar just die in the open, and now we are forced to stay in open. Sweeeetttt


People not playing ultra competitive are usually the most fethed by nerfs
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Man Dakka really has gotten full of casuals huh.

Came here for a competitive discussion and all I see is "yea I don't play competitively but...".

Do casuals even need to discuss tactics haha.

Trying to figure out how to compete with Eldar with these nerfs is going to be very very hard. Eldar just die in the open, and now we are forced to stay in open. Sweeeetttt



Comments like this drive away people, and pollute the community.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Just wondering how people are feeling about craftworlds post dataslate and points?
I think the points were pretty lenient but our book secondaries are a bit meh.
Has anyone settled on a good strategy for secondaries?

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Try webway warriors and a list with tons of stuff that drops out of reinforcements and you’d be surprised how much firepower you can unleash with those exploding 6’s. Falcons with dire avengers. Webway portal with more stuff. Units with built in deep strike. Etc
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Just be careful.... SM Infiltrators will completely shut down the webway portal... as I recently discovered first hand....
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What happened?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




warpedpig wrote:
What happened?


I had 10 banshees and 10 DA in reserve and I couldn't bring them out of the gate as he a 5 man infiltrator squad behind some LOS blocking terrain about 6" away... we fought over that gate all game as I had the hidden pathways so he denied me my secondary all game. Assault Cents are a real pain to shift when you have an apothecary nearby... anyhow I couldn't get there to dislodge them so I had to bring them in on the side of the board turn 3. Wasn't so bad for the DA as they could still RND but the banshees were so far out of position that they were useless for the game.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Was it just that you put the gate too close to him? or would that not have mattered very much either way.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Florida

Why could they not come out of the Webway Gate?

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Walking Dead Wraithlord






Infiltrators have a DS denial bubble right ?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
 
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