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NamelessBard wrote:
There really is no point in stating your opinion on these so called "DLC". It

Many people hate them because they feel like they should be in what they originally paid for.

Many people don't really care because it is extra content that's not required.

No one will convince the other they are correct.

There's also the fact that any printed material in the age of the internet is, for all practical purposes, "pay if you want". I'm not saying everyone should torrent the Ork Codex when it comes out but copying down leaked rulesets* is probably how a lot of players are going to field their Looted Wagons. Getting upset that there's an option to pay $4 for them isn't exercising good consumerism or whatever.

*And if you use armybuilding apps, the stats will be in there anyway when those templates are updated.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Why not include the rules in the book in the first place. This isn't an afterthought months after the release. Think you can cut the sarcasm long enough to give a well thought out response?

I can't hear you due to the ringing in my ears from literally being slapped in the face so much

Sarcasm is used in situations where everyone should know the obvious answer. So you know the obvious answer. Why should we as consumers allow this behavior of nickel and diming for things that should be included in our book. Or you can keep going on about nothing. Don't forget to throw you mad bro in to really seal the deal and show everyone how badass you are in the internet. Remember well thought out responses and facts aren't necessary to win arguments, just insult everyone else the most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Multimoog wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
There really is no point in stating your opinion on these so called "DLC". It

Many people hate them because they feel like they should be in what they originally paid for.

Many people don't really care because it is extra content that's not required.

No one will convince the other they are correct.

There's also the fact that any printed material in the age of the internet is, for all practical purposes, "pay if you want". I'm not saying everyone should torrent the Ork Codex when it comes out but copying down leaked rulesets* is probably how a lot of players are going to field their Looted Wagons. Getting upset that there's an option to pay $4 for them isn't exercising good consumerism or whatever.

*And if you use armybuilding apps, the stats will be in there anyway when those templates are updated.

Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

 Multimoog wrote:
I can't hear you due to the ringing in my ears from literally being slapped in the face so much

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 Orock wrote:


Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

You're also aware that it's Games Workshop who is leaking all these images and stats from WD a week in advance, right? They understand that's how the internet works.

 mikhaila wrote:
So a bit disappointed from what i just heard. Looters got moved to heavy support. Flashgits and Kans stay there. So the new Gorkamorkanaut, kans, dreads, flashgits, mekguns, and battlewagons compete for a spot.

On the bright side, i think Tankbusters lost the utterly stupid "shoot at vehicle out of range" rule.

I understand what you're saying and if it were still 6th edition it would be a concern, but that's no longer the way to approach / think about this.

The FOC isn't as restrictive in 7th edition. The rules state that you can take as many Detachments (of any type - Combined Arms and/or Allied) as you want. This means you can take two Combined Arms detachments (normal FOC we're all used to) to get six available heavy support choices for the whole of the army. You'll of course still need to fill the compulsory 1 HQ and 2 Troops per FOC (so 2 HQ's and 4 Troops), but that's not hard or even a detriment to do with Orks.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

Agree, this is indeed a great news!
It would be perfect to ALSO have those rules in the Codex

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

Thanks for the info!
Surprising they did not put it on the cover of WD though ...

 Multimoog wrote:

 Orock wrote:


Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

You're also aware that it's Games Workshop who is leaking all these images and stats from WD a week in advance, right? They understand that's how the internet works.

In order to generate hype and sales. They don't leak full blown stats that they want others to pay for. Someone gets a copy and scans it to do that, OR someone at the company with an agenda/grudge does.

 Delevarius wrote:
One more thing I found on facebook

Spoiler:

The fact that tic pic exists and yet there are no pics of the contents tells me that either the GW marketing conspiracies are true and they do intentional, controlled internet leaks, or people posting these pics are absolute sadists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:
Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

It's not wrong, it's just against the law.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

People complain that the WD is useless or a waste of money, and then also complain when they put exclusives into it. And it's a White Dwarf, with apparently the full rules for the unit. They could have done Codex: Looted Wagons like they did for Knights, or Codex Mek's Workshop with Big Meks, Mek guns, and Looted Wagons, like the Militarum Tempestus book.

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

But GW does have official kits. Leman Russ. Predator. Hammerhead. Etc. I thought e whole point of the looted wagon fluff was that it's, well... a looted wagon.

 Orock wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Datasheets BEFORE the codex, and the excuse to not include them in the book for free is.....??
This is beyond pathetic. Oh we know looted vehicles are beloved, even if typically weak. What if we can force our sheep to pay more to have a complete dex, that way it wont look like our codex prices are going up, but really they are!

...how do we know that looted vehicle rules aren't in the codex? The book isn't even out yet!

Because it says exclusive, as in only.

Well, since the codex isn't out yet, those rules would currently be exclusive to White Dwarf. So there's still hope.

Granted, there's another way to look at it... They might not have originally intended for Looted Vehicles to have rules, but there was an outburst on the Internet (as there damn well should be), and they used the quick turnaround time with the new White Dwarfs to throw together some rules and toss them in White Dwarf. Wouldn't have had time to put them in the codex because by then it'd already be done, printed, and ready to ship. But throwing them in White Dwarf, giving people rules for their models while making extra money? Yeah, that they'd have time for.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

People complain that the WD is useless or a waste of money, and then also complain when they put exclusives into it. And it's a White Dwarf, with apparently the full rules for the unit. They could have done Codex: Looted Wagons like they did for Knights, or Codex Mek's Workshop with Big Meks, Mek guns, and Looted Wagons, like the Militarum Tempestus book.

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

No people would rather it be included in the codex where it belongs. This isn't a 3 month afterthought, hey lets build looted wagons like people wanted so they have the fun option. This was probably completed at the same time as the book, and rather than including it, they made the greedy choice to charge more for something already expensive that could have easily been included with time to spare.

And white dwarf is useless because they don't do the things that white dwarf USED to do that made it viable for sales, like show awesome conversions by others, battle reports in each and every copy, hobby tips and how to SAVE money by things like kit bashing, or grinding up your old sprues, glueing them to a board and painting them grey for a great cityscape map. They killed their value themselves, and scratch their heads wondering why nobody buys it anymore.

I love conspiracy theories. And Dakka never fails to keep me entertained.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Delevarius wrote:
One more thing I found on facebook

Spoiler:

The fact that tic pic exists and yet there are no pics of the contents tells me that either the GW marketing conspiracies are true and they do intentional, controlled internet leaks, or people posting these pics are absolute sadists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:
Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

It's not wrong, it's just against the law.

Its wrong that they charge so much money for these things, but its still wrong. Nobody wants to be told they are a thief. Its against the law AND wrong. But I completely agree if these things were reasonably priced, there wouldn't be generations of kids growing up now thinking anything they CAN get their hands on for free is ok.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


The fact that tic pic exists and yet there are no pics of the contents tells me that either the GW marketing conspiracies are true and they do intentional, controlled internet leaks,

Bingo. Also, go back and look at some of the first leaked WD images: the carefully constructed composition and lens blur are very very intentional. If someone just wanted to leak the images they'd scan the whole WD and put it on imgur rather than taking artistic photos of single pages from the magazine.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
I can't hear you due to the ringing in my ears from literally being slapped in the face so much

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Haven't you heard, according to Miriam-Webster, Literally now means figuratively

 Orock wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

People complain that the WD is useless or a waste of money, and then also complain when they put exclusives into it. And it's a White Dwarf, with apparently the full rules for the unit. They could have done Codex: Looted Wagons like they did for Knights, or Codex Mek's Workshop with Big Meks, Mek guns, and Looted Wagons, like the Militarum Tempestus book.

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

No people would rather it be included in the codex where it belongs. This isn't a 3 month afterthought, hey lets build looted wagons like people wanted so they have the fun option. This was probably completed at the same time as the book, and rather than including it, they made the greedy choice to charge more for something already expensive that could have easily been included with time to spare.

And white dwarf is useless because they don't do the things that white dwarf USED to do that made it viable for sales, like show awesome conversions by others, battle reports in each and every copy, hobby tips and how to SAVE money by things like kit bashing, or grinding up your old sprues, glueing them to a board and painting them grey for a great cityscape map. They killed their value themselves, and scratch their heads wondering why nobody buys it anymore.

They do this all of what you are saying... not that it means it's worth buying, but your reasons are fairly weedy. Also, doesn't the fact that there are rules in it make it not useless?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Its not pay if you want. Just like illegally downloaded movies and music aren't with options to pay. Its theft, if you do this your a thief period. It may be acceptable in society, but your still wrong.

It's not wrong, it's just against the law.

But we are wrong if we support this dlc-type system. Payment and piracy aside, I just dont want a system, where half my units are in the dex and half spread over WDW, dataslates, supplements, exclusive versions, mission books and whatever crude scheme GW comes up next with. Not counting Imperial Armour and FW free downloads, though the later are really the last of anyones concern and actually the way this should be.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Datasheets BEFORE the codex, and the excuse to not include them in the book for free is.....??
This is beyond pathetic. Oh we know looted vehicles are beloved, even if typically weak. What if we can force our sheep to pay more to have a complete dex, that way it wont look like our codex prices are going up, but really they are!

...how do we know that looted vehicle rules aren't in the codex? The book isn't even out yet!

Because it says exclusive, as in only.

Well, since the codex isn't out yet, those rules would currently be exclusive to White Dwarf. So there's still hope.

Granted, there's another way to look at it... They might not have originally intended for Looted Vehicles to have rules, but there was an outburst on the Internet (as there damn well should be), and they used the quick turnaround time with the new White Dwarfs to throw together some rules and toss them in White Dwarf. Wouldn't have had time to put them in the codex because by then it'd already be done, printed, and ready to ship. But throwing them in White Dwarf, giving people rules for their models while making extra money? Yeah, that they'd have time for.

If it was just management incompetence they could release the rules for free, as an apology to players, on their website, and say "look we screwed up, but take these rules they are official, feel free to print them and leave it in your codex". That is what a responsible company would do. And in the past they DID do these kinds of things with errata, including adding missing units, for free. This is a blatant cash grab, or worse, incompetence, THEN used as a blatant cash grab.

NamelessBard wrote:
They do this all of what you are saying... not that it means it's worth buying, but your reasons are fairly weedy. Also, doesn't the fact that there are rules in it make it not useless?

I remember an old issue of whide dwarf where they showed how to make some sort of spiky alien plant with styrofoam balls and toothpics. You are free to show me any of the new WDW where they teach you how to create your own terrain instead of buying Citadel Realm of Battle (c, r, tm,...)-boards

 Orock wrote:
If it was just management incompetence they could release the rules for free, as an apology to players, on their website, and say "look we screwed up, but take these rules they are official, feel free to print them and leave it in your codex". That is what a responsible company would do. And in the past they DID do these kinds of things with errata, including adding missing units, for free. This is a blatant cash grab, or worse, incompetence, THEN used as a blatant cash grab.

Okay, don't buy it. Why are you trying to convince others to agree with you.

I am sure there is a product you buy that I could make the exact same argument over.

NamelessBard wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

People complain that the WD is useless or a waste of money, and then also complain when they put exclusives into it. And it's a White Dwarf, with apparently the full rules for the unit. They could have done Codex: Looted Wagons like they did for Knights, or Codex Mek's Workshop with Big Meks, Mek guns, and Looted Wagons, like the Militarum Tempestus book.

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

No people would rather it be included in the codex where it belongs. This isn't a 3 month afterthought, hey lets build looted wagons like people wanted so they have the fun option. This was probably completed at the same time as the book, and rather than including it, they made the greedy choice to charge more for something already expensive that could have easily been included with time to spare.

And white dwarf is useless because they don't do the things that white dwarf USED to do that made it viable for sales, like show awesome conversions by others, battle reports in each and every copy, hobby tips and how to SAVE money by things like kit bashing, or grinding up your old sprues, glueing them to a board and painting them grey for a great cityscape map. They killed their value themselves, and scratch their heads wondering why nobody buys it anymore.

It dosent add actual value to the magazine itself, you are buying something that you feel the rest of is completely useless just to get one part. Its like having to buy a whole engine from ford because they don't sell the replacement parts you need seperatley. If they had actual value in the magazine itself, they wouldn't NEED to pull stuff like this, it would sell itself. You are just making some mad about paying for one thing they want and wasting the rest. And if they are just trying to get people to be interested in the magazine, how about this. Why not, if you buy a new codex or rulebook, you get that weeks white dwarf free with purchase. It gets someone to take it when they usually wouldn't, and may get them interested in future magazines.



They do this all of what you are saying... not that it means it's worth buying, but your reasons are fairly weedy. Also, doesn't the fact that there are rules in it make it not useless?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Would people rather GW just drop the Looted Wagon entirely? Because that was the more likely option, as it does not have an official kit, and plenty of other companies make their own versions of it. So getting rules for it, even in WD, is a good thing. I'm rather sure Tyranid players would be rejoicing if the Spore Pod was included in an exclusive White Dwarf rather than dropped entirely, and Guard would have appreciated the Griffon and Medusa being WD exclusives rather than FW again.

People complain that the WD is useless or a waste of money, and then also complain when they put exclusives into it. And it's a White Dwarf, with apparently the full rules for the unit. They could have done Codex: Looted Wagons like they did for Knights, or Codex Mek's Workshop with Big Meks, Mek guns, and Looted Wagons, like the Militarum Tempestus book.

As for the codex, it will be preorder on the 21st, released on the 28th, per BigRed at BoLS

99070103001 50-18 ORK MEK Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $21

99070103002 50-25 ORK PAINBOY Plastic Clam 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $26

60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

I'm not too concerned about the Looted Wagon, but I suppose if I had to say the way I *wish* they did it, it would be that they left it in the Codex as-is, maybe tweaked the rules to make it more effective. Why exactly did GW have to pull a unit out of a codex that already existed?

GW does not have to pull units out of a codex because they haven't produced an official unit; if people like what GW is doing and like their releases, then they will buy their kits. They could put articles in WD with conversion ideas for Looted Wagons, or maybe they could make the rules for the Looted Wagon more like they were in 3rd edition, where you took existing kits and applied their points/cost to. Trying to stop people from buying a third party version simply by cutting the unit out of the codex is in effect punishing the customers for not being loyal enough, and that is not how a healthy company function. They could also just produce a Looted Wagon at some point in the future rather than waiting to new codices to produce them. There are a number of ways that this could be dealt with better.

WD could certainly have exclusive units ala the Chapter Approved stuff and I would be okay with that, but I won't be so thrilled about them taking units out of a codex to create this content. I don't even care about the $4, it just comes off as greedy, taking existing content and slapping on an additional price tag.

NamelessBard wrote:

 Orock wrote:
If it was just management incompetence they could release the rules for free, as an apology to players, on their website, and say "look we screwed up, but take these rules they are official, feel free to print them and leave it in your codex". That is what a responsible company would do. And in the past they DID do these kinds of things with errata, including adding missing units, for free. This is a blatant cash grab, or worse, incompetence, THEN used as a blatant cash grab.

Okay, don't buy it. Why are you trying to convince others to agree with you.

I am sure there is a product you buy that I could make the exact same argument over.

because if you can get others to agree that its asanine, they nobody buys it. And if nobody buys it, GW has to shape up and stop pulling this crap of buying 4 things to get a completed product when you should have been given it all for your initial investment. Don't just sit there and take it, and wonder why you cant afford a house while you drink your 5 dollar coffee from starbucks.

Also, if there is a product that you could tell me "hey look buddy, don't buy this, you can get the same effect with buying this for cheaper or getting some component for free and saving you some cash" I would probably not be insulted by that. And would thank you for your advice.

Grotorderly with more info.
Ork Rumors - June 2014
"I just got some info:
- 20th June we gonna get new release info for 28th June: codex, two new models
- Ork Codex will have 104 pages. It will be the first codex to sport new organization of unit info in form of Datasheets, each unit will get a one pager (25 quid).
- new models for Painboy and Ork Mek (16 and 15 quid).
- Ork Datacards: 43 cards (7 pyschic cards and 36 Tactical Objective cards). Limited Edition (5 quid)."

And for reference:
Grotorderly - Total rumors: (2 TRUE) / (3 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


60030103005 50-01-60 CODEX: ORKS (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 21-Jun-14 28-Jun-14 RTD $49.5

That's all that i needed to hear.

 pretre wrote:
Grotorderly with more info.
Ork Rumors - June 2014
"I just got some info:
- 20th June we gonna get new release info for 28th June: codex, two new models
- Ork Codex will have 104 pages. It will be the first codex to sport new organization of unit info in form of Datasheets, each unit will get a one pager (25 quid).
- new models for Painboy and Ork Mek (16 and 15 quid).
- Ork Datacards: 43 cards (7 pyschic cards and 36 Tactical Objective cards). Limited Edition (5 quid)."

And for reference:
Grotorderly - Total rumors: (2 TRUE) / (3 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

I have no idea what sport new organization of unit info in form of datasheets is supposed to mean. Does that mean the rulebook will be one thing then another supplement will come out with all the datasheets?

 Orock wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Grotorderly with more info.
Ork Rumors - June 2014
"I just got some info:
- 20th June we gonna get new release info for 28th June: codex, two new models
- Ork Codex will have 104 pages. It will be the first codex to sport new organization of unit info in form of Datasheets, each unit will get a one pager (25 quid).
- new models for Painboy and Ork Mek (16 and 15 quid).
- Ork Datacards: 43 cards (7 pyschic cards and 36 Tactical Objective cards). Limited Edition (5 quid)."

And for reference:
Grotorderly - Total rumors: (2 TRUE) / (3 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

I have no idea what sport new organization of unit info in form of datasheets is supposed to mean. Does that mean the rulebook will be one thing then another supplement will come out with all the datasheets?

My guess would be everything related to a unit all on one page... Point cost, upgrades, stats, special rules, etc..

Having a unit that is in the current rules, removing it from the new rules, and then selling it separately at the same time as the new rules is dirty business no matter how you slice it. I shouldn't have to pay extra to get the rules for hotels in monopoly 2.0. It's not new content but stripping existing entries to profiteer and exploit people who like or already have the model made. Almost every vehicle or giant nid MC is a potential looted wagon so don't say it doesn't have a model. It's the entry with the highest number of possible models in 40k.

Are the grots on the cover of the new white dwarf not the ones from the mek guns kit?