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In your opinion, Who are the most overpowered atm?

Not this thread again, I think theirs a topic in Dakka discussion, that says "GREY KNIGHTS ARE THE MOST OVERPOWERED ARMY GW HAS PUT OUT IN A DECADE"

Go look their, you'll get your answer

Lulz, I really don't think that to be true. Since good ole Ward has been working on a lot of the new codices, he has been making each one overpowered and extremely unique when compared to older codices. But when you compare, say the Grey Knigts, to the new 'Crons they're really not the overpowered.

bombboy1252 wrote:Not this thread again, I think theirs a topic in Dakka discussion, that says "GREY KNIGHTS ARE THE MOST OVERPOWERED ARMY GW HAS PUT OUT IN A DECADE"

Go look their, you'll get your answer

I'm not really fussed. I'm here for everyone's individual opinion, not the opinion of one person/thread.

That would be because they are both recent, by the same author, and arguably OP.

Compare them to something older. or not-ward, for a fairer comparison

I don't care overmuch. My Orks can still compete just fine, though certain things are a tad much (cleansing flame for example..)

*sets Mat Ward hate counter* And now we play the waiting game....

The amount of people who predict mat ward hate is far greater than the amount of people who actually hate mat ward.
Any thread about codex creep/rubbish army books will mainly be spam by people predicting mat ward hate.

Joey wrote:The amount of people who predict mat ward hate is far greater than the amount of people who actually hate mat ward.
Any thread about codex creep/rubbish army books will mainly be spam by people predicting mat ward hate.

Actually, that is not true, any thread about codex creep/rubbish army books will mainly be spam by people predicting that there will be people predicting Mat Ward hate.

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:The amount of people who predict mat ward hate is far greater than the amount of people who actually hate mat ward.
Any thread about codex creep/rubbish army books will mainly be spam by people predicting mat ward hate.

Actually, that is not true, any thread about codex creep/rubbish army books will mainly be spam by people predicting that there will be people predicting Mat Ward hate.

I should have seen that coming.
Anyway.
Blood Angels are clearly overpowered. He's how to win as Blood Angels:
Pick a load of stuff you think looks cool.
Run at the enemy.
Win.

Joey wrote:Blood Angels are clearly overpowered. He's how to win as Blood Angels:
Pick a load of stuff you think looks cool.
Run at the enemy.
Win.

Wow, you know I had never thought of that before, that's brilliant. Okay, everyone, 40k is now meaningless based on this insight. You can all head home.

pretre wrote:
Wow, you know I had never thought of that before, that's brilliant. Okay, everyone, 40k is now meaningless based on this insight. You can all head home.

Yes, all life is meaningless and arbitrary. It is about relative importance, however.
BA may me relatively over-powered, or maybe just "easy", but they're fun to kill.

daBIGboss wrote:In your opinion, Who are the most overpowered atm?

In general, there's 4 that are seen as the top dogs.

Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves and Blood Angels.

Grey Knights have some ridiculous CC troops, upgrades and special rules on top of ubiquitous force weapons and psychic powers, and can do everything from deathstars to extreme MSU builds and most everything in between.

Imperial Guard can field a hilarious number of heavy/special weapons (often more than their opponents may have models) and tanks (routinely 10-17 independent tanks in 1500-2000pts) with lots of scoring units.

Space Wolves basically get the coolest parts of CSM's and vanilla marines with bonuses on top and a 15% discount just for kicks and some of the best psykers in the game aside from GK's, despite being a chapter that apparently dislikes psykers in their fluff

Blood Angels can tank spam almost as well as the Imperial Guard and field scary assault troops and FNP bubbles to boot with special snowflake jump troop deepstrike rules for their melta-toting assault troops.

Is it so wrong to imply on an almost sure thing?

The most OP army?

...

Well, I would say whoever's new and different.

Let's see...

So far we had

BA
then
GK
and now
Necrons

Oh the rage of a hundred noobies hearing about enthropic strike ^^

Really don't know. That said. . . I actually am tempted to say Necrons. Why? Well, this is a mechanized edition. Everyone depends on their metal boxes.

And Necrons have Scarabs. Scarabs who, unless I grossly misread the codex, lower the AV of said metal boxes EVERY TIME THEY HIT THEM.

That Land Raider of yours, full of Assault Terminators? It just got mobbed by a dozen Scarab bases, and now it's AV 10. Next turn, a Destroyer casually pokes a hole in it, drops out your 400 points of hammer-wielding goodness, and then everyone and their dog blows them right the feth up.

That seems a bit OP to me, personally. Doesn't inconvenience my Orks much, since I tend to play mostly Green Tide, but I think it concerns most armies a great deal.

This will turn into a Matt Ward hate thread soon, but altogether I don't think any army is really over powered, it's just when people are beaten and can't accept they couldn't win so the game is now broken or an army is over powered.

PS: Necron Scarab Farm is designed to remove the masses of Tanks on the field today, it's kind off funny because before the new Necrons arrived everyone just spammed tanks, not that entire idea can be brought down quite quickly by tones of Scarab bases.

In my opinion, there is no army so garishly over-powered that everything will crumble before it. All armies have inherent flaws and weaknesses - some more than others - however, no army is impervious.

I think it's the player, not the army, that makes it hard to win.

Iranna.

New codex comes out.
The army gets +1 on all rolls.
Still possible to beat them, but complaints about them being over-powered are dismissed as whinging, despite new army's dominance of tournament lists.
Look at it this way, if you had to play a game of 40k for your life, would you rather battle Eldar or Blood Angels?

To be blunt, what made you think creating this thread was a good idea? Go browse Dakka. You'll get a handle on what people believe is the most powerful army.

blood reaper wrote:This will turn into a Matt Ward hate thread soon, but altogether I don't think any army is really over powered, it's just when people are beaten and can't accept they couldn't win so the game is now broken or an army is over powered.

PS: Necron Scarab Farm is designed to remove the masses of Tanks on the field today, it's kind off funny because before the new Necrons arrived everyone just spammed tanks, not that entire idea can be brought down quite quickly by tones of Scarab bases.

Scarabs are easy enough to deal with, really, what they are is another win big/lose big hardcounter that relies a lot on going turn 1. The scarabs are noticeably undercosted, and can really be abused, but are also countered very much by S6 weapons or CC troops. Many mech IG armies are very capable of annihilating them before they can do any real damage, my last game against them I took down 21 of 30 bases the first turn, spyders pooped out 6 more, dropped the other 15 on my turn 2 and 3 of the spyders. Against enemies with competent CC troops, throwing a couple of them at scarab units tends to remove them fairly quickly.

TL;DR scarabs are a gimmicky win big/lose big hardcounter that probably won't really change the metagame at all.

Vaktathi wrote:TL;DR scarabs are a gimmicky win big/lose big hardcounter that probably won't really change the metagame at all.

I really don't think this is true. Have you read through jy2's scarab farm battle reports? 15+ bases of scarabs are not that easy to just remove from the board. Especially when there will be another 4.5 next turn.

it's just when people are beaten and can't accept they couldn't win so the game is now broken or an army is over powered.

I think this (or rather a toned down version) is the case. People don't like it when the metagame changes. GK and Necrons have changed (and are changing) how the game is best played with armies that were previously rather 'point and click to win' (eg Imperial Weaklings, Wolfy McWolf Marines) - I exaggerate here a little for effect as I've learnt that this is the way of Dakka, reason is the enemy...

But also they change the value of 'internet wisdom' (or 'hackneyed dogma', if you prefer). For instance with some GK builds (and part of the 'problem' with them and Necrons is that they offer so many viable builds that the weak-minded - see disclaimer in previous paragraph - get all hot and bothered as if they could field everything at once) you really don't need more than 2 troop choices at 2000K, and you can field 'too few models'. things like this upset people and get them all in a tiz. Now nasty Necrons have units that can literally eat your vehicles without ever having to roll to penetrate, woe, woe, woe, the world is ended and they are broken. Or perhaps not...

I can actually understand an ork player sighing a bit when they consider Purifying Flame and look forward to losing 1/3 of their models before a blow is struck. I can undersatnd an Imperial Weakling player's tears as he watches his tank corp munched by scarabs or crunched by Might of Titan. (The despair of Space Fairies as their lance weapons fail to bring down shrouded-flat-outing stormravens on the other hand is just hilarious...).

But when new lists truck along and upset the game (like most of these lists have done in their time), real men just man up, change up their tactics, maybe tweak their all-comers lists a trifle and buckle down to learning how to win again.

Some codices are tougher than others, most certainly. But the cry of 'broken' or howl of 'overpowered' is the first and last refuge of the failed tactician (disclaimer again...)

pretre wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:TL;DR scarabs are a gimmicky win big/lose big hardcounter that probably won't really change the metagame at all.

I really don't think this is true. Have you read through jy2's scarab farm battle reports? 15+ bases of scarabs are not that easy to just remove from the board. Especially when there will be another 4.5 next turn.

For some armies yes it's a huge pain, for others, not so much. Hence why win big/lose big. They'll be a lot like Draigowing/Nob bikers, etc. Against some armies they'll do spectacularly well, and against others they'll flop horribly. Against MSU razoback spam with lots of TL Lascannons, they'll likely do well. Again IG armies with lots of chimeras that have S6 multishot 36" weapons on top of loads of autocannons and blast/template weapons, they're not so much unless they get first turn and a good chunk of luck.

The only book that gives me fits all the time is Blood Angels only because with some bad vehicle pen rolls they are in your face turn two. But the wonderful thing is you can adapt your style after seeing what your list couldn't handle, now there is a new counter to deploy on the field.

IE: I took out heavy D's for a 4 man wraith squad. Suddenly assault marines don't bother me as much.

Vaktathi wrote:For some armies yes it's a huge pain, for others, not so much. Hence why win big/lose big. They'll be a lot like Draigowing/Nob bikers, etc. Against some armies they'll do spectacularly well, and against others they'll flop horribly. Against MSU razoback spam with lots of TL Lascannons, they'll likely do well. Again IG armies with lots of chimeras that have S6 multishot 36" weapons on top of loads of autocannons and blast/template weapons, they're not so much unless they get first turn and a good chunk of luck.

Saying that you already have the tools to do with them is kind of silly. Sure you do. You can throw your 2000 points against his 225 and that will definitely take care of that one squad of scarabs. Now what about the rest of his army? He just posted up an IG match which (although the IG player made some silly mistakes) showed that it isn't that simple just to destroy or ignore scarabs, especially since they are such a minor part of any Necron army.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419641.page

Also, you don't need to make your list a 'scarab farm' list to put them in there. You can throw a scarab farm (15 scarabs and 3 spyders) into any list for 375-400 points. That's nothing.

Joey wrote:New codex comes out.
The army gets +1 on all rolls.
Still possible to beat them, but complaints about them being over-powered are dismissed as whinging, despite new army's dominance of tournament lists.
Look at it this way, if you had to play a game of 40k for your life, would you rather battle Eldar or Blood Angels?

Don't underestimate Eldar, it will be the biggest mistake of your war-gaming life.

Iranna.

Facing Scarabs definitely means an adjustment in how one approaches a mission, I find. You really need to get rid of them in 2 turns if at all possible (which is time that the Necron player should be using to his advantage). Some armies will be able to do this, other's won't (but may tarpit them instead perhaps, or come up with another wheeze). I don't actually see them as win big/lose big myself, they're not going to win a game by themselves, but if they fail, it won't be a disaster either as they'll eat firepower for a turn or two. I do think they're an excellent unit, both as a Necron pick and as something to spice the game generally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

would you rather battle Eldar or Blood Angels

With GK? Vampy Vampires every day of the week.

Iranna wrote:

Joey wrote:New codex comes out.
The army gets +1 on all rolls.
Still possible to beat them, but complaints about them being over-powered are dismissed as whinging, despite new army's dominance of tournament lists.
Look at it this way, if you had to play a game of 40k for your life, would you rather battle Eldar or Blood Angels?

Don't underestimate Eldar, it will be the biggest mistake of your war-gaming life.

Iranna.

Eldar are weak and die easily. Manticores in particular can kill a squad each turn anywhere on the board.

pretre wrote:
Saying that you already have the tools to do with them is kind of silly. Sure you do. You can throw your 2000 points against his 225 and that will definitely take care of that one squad of scarabs.

You're assuming that one needs to throw all of that 2000pts worth of shooting at the scarabs, which just isn't the case. I can just turn the multilasers and heavy bolters from the chimeras on them and generally remove half of the 15 bases by themselves assuming they're all getting cover saves. Next turn they get reinforced to not quite original strength and move up, now they're in great range to engage them with the infantry and hull mounted heavy flamers and they go bye-bye while the support elements of the list have been engaging other targets the whole time.

He just posted up an IG match which (although the IG player made some silly mistakes) showed that it isn't that simple just to destroy or ignore scarabs, especially since they are such a minor part of any Necron army.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419641.page

Also, you don't need to make your list a 'scarab farm' list to put them in there. You can throw a scarab farm (15 scarabs and 3 spyders) into any list for 375-400 points. That's nothing.

The list the IG player is running is about as good for that necron scarab-spam list as one could hope for. Relatively few armored targets that are big and expensive and have low rear AV (and that Scarabs could care less about the frontal AV14) and they're all squadroned with lots of footslogging infantry and little in the way of multi-shot weapons.

Against a mechnized IG list running a 12-17 independent tanks with lots of chimeras, it's a totally different story.

Joey wrote:
Eldar are weak and die easily. Manticores in particular can kill a squad each turn anywhere on the board.

That is true...

Untill you consider that I'm on you turn 2/3 blowing open those Manticores and the rest of your army with ~9 Alphastrike Wave Serpents.

Iranna.