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At the top:

I think many armies have their individual exploitable bits, for different reasons. Haven't seen new Necrons, but Grey Knights, Wolves, Blood Angels, Guard, Dark Eldar all have distinclty spammable force options and/or discount versions of awesomer variations of other army's equivalent units.

Tis the trend. So rather than look at the blatant and obvious power-armies, look at the ones that aren't, it would be a shorter list.

A Space Wolf player calling a Guard player's army list overpowered is about as silly as the Guard player accusnig the Wolf player of the same thing. They are both exploitable, lend heavily to spamming, just in different ways. So really its just a choice of which flavor of cheese you want on your spam sandwich.


In the middle:

Orks are their own thing and have always been tough, cuz deyz da orks! They vary very little from edition to edition and could be considered the most reliable in my opinion to always know you have a tough army without resorting to spam tactics and carbon copy armies.

Eldar have about 1 army build (maybe 2 but I think foot-dar is wishful optimistic thinking personally) that's still viable. Something about fire dragons, fire prisms, and lots of transports. It can compete, but it's quite predictable (and as an Eldar player, it gets boring feeling like you have to do it just that way every time or else get squished).

Daemons are a niche army. Very colorful and full of variations but also very quirky to use, so their strengths are balanced out by their awkwardness.

On the bad side:

SM get the shaft from pretty much every other marine chapter doing it better, cheaper, and more flexible - they weren't bad - until the other marines all got better.

Chaos has the lash, sure, but in general, falls into the same sad predicament as their vanilla ex-brothers.

Sisters and Tau and Nids have to struggle and have no solid "power build" at all to compete with the new stuff. (maybe fielding a buttload of sisters on foot as spam seems good, but its very one dimensional)

So in short I think a good half of the armies in the game are "good" in current format compared to their peers, and half are "bad". There is no top dog or bottom dog, just those that have been kept up, and those that haven't.

Iranna wrote:

Joey wrote:
30 lasguns with FRFSRF gives 90 shots, 45 hits, 22.5 wounds.
given a ten man squad including farseer that's 2.2 wounds each. Chance of an invididual failing are 1/6 with the re-rolls, 1/3 since it's two wounds.
So you'd lose a third of that squad with ONE volley of lasguns. That's an awful lot of points.

That is an awful lot of points for 3 models.

Then I roast you, killing anywhere from 10-20 Guadsmen.

Charge, I hit on 3s and wound on 2s. you hit on 4s (Guardsmen are WS 3 right?) and wound on 5s. So let's say that I killed 15 for the Destructor spam.

My attacks:

24 attacks, hitting on 3s = 18 hits = 15 wounds = 12 dead Guardsmen. (Assuming no Doom)

you have ~6 power weapon attacks depending on unit composition and ~21 normal attacks.

3 Power weapon hits and ~10 normal hits

1 Power Weapon wound and ~ 3 normal wounds, with re-rolls. So there's a good chance that no one would die, but let's give you one.

I win by 11.

Two turns max and then you're wiped.

Iranna.

Or

XV9s

Remove your models.

Guitardian wrote:Sisters and Tau and Nids have to struggle and have no solid "power build" at all to compete with the new stuff. (maybe fielding a buttload of sisters on foot as spam seems good, but its very one dimensional)

I would disagree about sisters.
Celestine, Uriah Bomb, 3xDominions in TL-MM Immos, 2x Sisters in Rhinos, 3x Exorcists is disgustingly effective.

daedalus wrote:To be blunt, what made you think creating this thread was a good idea? Go browse Dakka. You'll get a handle on what people believe is the most powerful army.

Wasn't about being a good or bad idea.
I wanted the answer for my personal reasons and this was the most convenient way of getting it.
It turned into a very interesting discussion, so no need to be 'blunt'.

IG have good tanks
eldar have speed
tau and necrons have fire power
marines (both normal and chaos) are all purpose in general
nids, orks and daemons have close combat
grey knights are anti chaos and pysker
blood angels are rage filled paratroopers so they are a mix between eldar and normal marines
dark angles are space bikers so are again speed freaks
space wolves are vikings and are are CC/normal
not to sure on the black templars
and SoB are basicly an IG version of GK

BT have fearless and lanceproof LR as standard transports, plus sheer badassery..

I love BT

Personaly I don't think necrons are overpowered. Yes they have a very good unit against lots of other codex meta-game (scarab v mech heavy builds) but they are easily countered by strength 6+ weapons (every S+ weapon will ID a base) and they are easy to tarpit because even though they have a lott of attacks they have terrible ws and s.

Necrons got a buff but they needed one. I think they are about on par with Vanilla marines/orks/eldar, capable of being very competative with a good list and good general but not as point and click as BA,GK, SW, and IG are.

But in my opinion BA are stupidly OTT, the death company drednought with blood talons! if that is not over powered then i dont know what is...

sisters of battle, because celestine cant die so there for she's over powered and so is the army herpderp

I'll say this again, there is no such thing as an over powered army, only slight changes to an army that means that you have to stop spamming unit X and think up a new tactic to beat them which most people seem incapible of doing and so call OP

To everyone who spams the matt ward hate comments. Your comments are not cute or insightful, in fact you are unimaginative and boring. You detract from the discussion.

Vaktathi summed things up nicely. Grey knights, spacewolves, imperial guard. although I would include dark eldar instead of blood angels myself.
Why? DE can field MSU spam that are all in tiny fast skimmers that carry deadly anti armor weapons. sure DE are glass cannons but properly built up and used they can be nearly impossible to stop.
Just my two cents.

or drazha lord of blades! lelith is not as bade (still vary annoying though) for she can be ID and/or run away


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sennacherib wrote:To everyone who spams the matt ward hate comments. Your comments are not cute or insightful, in fact you are unimaginative and boring. You detract from the discussion.

Vaktathi summed things up nicely. Grey knights, spacewolves, imperial guard. although I would include dark eldar instead of blood angels myself.
Why? DE can field MSU spam that are all in tiny fast skimmers that carry deadly anti armor weapons. sure DE are glass cannons but properly built up and used they can be nearly impossible to stop.
Just my two cents.

why does every one hate matt ward if they dont know him personly? the guy has a good imgaination (even though most of his units have similar stats)

same could be asked of Goto, who I tried to defend in a thread a couple years ago and had the internet version of fruit thrown at me for a while afterwards. He's just an author, with a story. Difference with Ward is he writes the rules that make some armies obsolete, outdone in what they are best at, and others thinking somewhere along the lines of "omgwtfroflwhaaat?!... okay... i'll use it... spam it... and be awesome for it then anyway even though I know its ridiculous"... his fluff writing I couldn't give a rats ass about... but the way his codex contributions affect the dynamic of the game for other armies is just.. well kinda hateable. Don't hate the guy, just wish he had a bit more restraint than he did when making certain books into no-brainer superpowers, without mentioning any names.

skwiff wrote:or drazha lord of blades! lelith is not as bade (still vary annoying though) for she can be ID and/or run away


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sennacherib wrote:To everyone who spams the matt ward hate comments. Your comments are not cute or insightful, in fact you are unimaginative and boring. You detract from the discussion.

Vaktathi summed things up nicely. Grey knights, spacewolves, imperial guard. although I would include dark eldar instead of blood angels myself.
Why? DE can field MSU spam that are all in tiny fast skimmers that carry deadly anti armor weapons. sure DE are glass cannons but properly built up and used they can be nearly impossible to stop.
Just my two cents.

why does every one hate matt ward if they dont know him personly? the guy has a good imgaination (even though most of his units have similar stats)

OK,

One: Drazha has one slight problem, he'll over kill most of the time then when the enemy see's this will point every available gun at him and boom.
Two: Saying Matt Ward has a good imagination is like saying "I'm the new Hitler, lets go do some Nazi stuff!" to an anti-Fascism protest, prepare for hate.
Three: Capital letters do exist.

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:Blood Angels are clearly overpowered. He's how to win as Blood Angels:
Pick a load of stuff you think looks cool.
Run at the enemy.
Win.

Wow, you know I had never thought of that before, that's brilliant. Okay, everyone, 40k is now meaningless based on this insight. You can all head home.

Look at this already, let the hate flow!