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I was reading through the tyranid codex and got my wondering if a large ork waaagh and large hive fleet both ingaged each other on a planet and in space who would win.
They would both have millions of basic troops and hundreds of titans and large creatures.

So who do you think would win?

Actually, the Octarian War is still ongoing (Good job Imperium); where a Tyranid Hive Fleet smashed into the Octavian Ork Empire. It seems that neither side is managing to get a foot hold; each Ork that gets killed releases its spores, which then progenates more Orks while every Tyranid bioform that dies simply gets recycled. Regardless of who wins, its sure to clobber the Imperium shortly afterwards.

So to answer your question more directly; no one knows.

40kSpartan wrote:I was reading through the tyranid codex and got my wondering if a large ork waaagh and large hive fleet both ingaged each other on a planet and in space who would win.
They would both have millions of basic troops and hundreds of titans and large creatures.

So who do you think would win?

The viewing audience.

This is basically the Octarius War

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War#.Tv56P9Q9nX4


Fairly decent summary of it there. Pretty much a stalemate.Though to be fair, not all of Hive Fleet Leviathan is engaged there while the Ork Empire of Octarius is the strongest and largest of its kind.

Yeah, the part they do a good job of glassing over in the 5th edition fluff is that it's not all of Leviathan in that fight, it's just one of its tendrils.

Remember that more and more ork clans are being drawn in to the fight because well its a good fight too.

However, I did notice in the I think planestrike codex when they described that one hivefleet that was destroyed but part of it survived and basically re-grew to almost full strenght by eating some ork worlds. That one description makes me think that they might have an upperhand.
On the flipside though its also described in the ork dex I belive that orks with enough warfare stimulation can grow in size and strenght to points not yet even encountered by the imperium. The nids might actually provide enough of a fight for orks to trigger a new type of super ork. S who knows....I'm rooting for orks though

Hive fleet. You'd need a ork waaagh of armaggedon proportions to even have a slight chance, or one like Ullanor for a 50/50 chance

The thing about the Octarius war is that it is a hive fleet against an entire Ork empire, much larger than a single Waaagh!
and at that it is a stalemate, a single Waaagh! would crumble under the sheer magnitude of a force as large as a hive fleet.

Saying each started with roughly equal forces, then the Orks, Orks will release spores on death and rapidly increase their numbers whereas nids stay relatively the same size

Squidmanlolz wrote:The thing about the Octarius war is that it is a hive fleet against an entire Ork empire, much larger than a single Waaagh!
and at that it is a stalemate, a single Waaagh! would crumble under the sheer magnitude of a force as large as a hive fleet.

There is no set size for a Waaagh! There is no upper limit for how big a Waaagh! can be, at least shot of every ork everywhere. Obviously it can't be bigger than that.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Saying each started with roughly equal forces, then the Orks, Orks will release spores on death and rapidly increase their numbers whereas nids stay relatively the same size

They use ork biomatter to enlarge their force.

Orks however take longer to incubate then nids (gaunts are fired like bullets, orks take weeks/months to grow from fungus)

Whilst interesting it is a general discussion point rather than official b/g so will move to 40K General.

If a "standard" sized WAAAGH! was to go up against an entire hive fleet, the orks would be bug food. Not even Ghazzys Waaagh! would stand a chance if the entirety of Leviathan wanted for some reason to just chow down on them.

But with questions like this it's always a matter of who is in command of each army, for the Tyranids it's the hivemind. For the Orks it depends.

It's like saying "Who would win, SM chapter X, or Craftworld Y" it depends on a lot of things, not just who is fighting.

An interesting point to add is that the Swarmlord is now believed to be leading the assault on the Octarian orks; something which only happens when the Hive Mind struggles to break an opponent through "conventional" means. Perhaps this suggests that the Octarian orks are faring better than we thought?

However, I'm yet to meet a character that can stand up against the Swarmlord fluff-wise.

Iranna.

Zogwort+Stormlord= SQUIG?!

Just a possibility. And my own belief is that the Orkz will eventully make a massive cannon, only suceeding in blowing them, and the nids up.

Chaos Lord Gir wrote:Zogwort+Stormlord= SQUIG?!

Just a possibility. And my own belief is that the Orkz will eventully make a massive cannon, only suceeding in blowing them, and the nids up.

Now that would be an interesting twist...

I personally don't think that GW will be in a hurry to give us a winner. Either an external party destroys them, or the stalemate ever-continues...

Iranna.

I love this idea od orks vs tyranid, it has no end.

but now comes to think the necrons also hate the tyranids so even if the ork spore don't grow fast enough, think how fast the necrons repair themself.

Necron vs tyranids, I would say the necrons will be the winner, who then will be beaten by orks, who will feed the tyranids, and on and on.

there is no end to this lol

Marthike wrote:I love this idea od orks vs tyranid, it has no end.

but now comes to think the necrons also hate the tyranids so even if the ork spore don't grow fast enough, think how fast the necrons repair themself.

Necron vs tyranids, I would say the necrons will be the winner, who then will be beaten by orks, who will feed the tyranids, and on and on.

there is no end to this lol

There's some debate as to whether Tyranids would even attack Necrons due to being unable to consume the metal for Biomass.

Still, if they did, I really can't judge who would win that fight, it'd close though.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Marthike wrote:I love this idea od orks vs tyranid, it has no end.

but now comes to think the necrons also hate the tyranids so even if the ork spore don't grow fast enough, think how fast the necrons repair themself.

Necron vs tyranids, I would say the necrons will be the winner, who then will be beaten by orks, who will feed the tyranids, and on and on.

there is no end to this lol

There's some debate as to whether Tyranids would even attack Necrons due to being unable to consume the metal for Biomass.

Still, if they did, I really can't judge who would win that fight, it'd close though.

Iranna.

Tyranids usually avoid Necron tomb worlds, but they will try to fight (and consume) them if they get in the hive fleets way.

you'd think the Tyranids would develop a micro organism that would eat ork spores, that would give them the upper hand.

Mr Nobody wrote:you'd think the Tyranids would develop a micro organism that would eat ork spores, that would give them the upper hand.

two things, Nids already have orkinoid DNA this is why you have Biovores they use the orks spore synthesis to create those death spores. That being said orkinoid spores are not able to really be found it's a funny story the imperium often coats an old ork battlefield with napalm in hopes to kill an ork before being born but this rarely works. On rare ocassions the orks can even reproduce inside imperial ships.... using even the most technological devices to detect and erradicate the spores still doesn't work... in Rogue trader they say that some worried rogue traders who employ ork freebooters purge all rooms they enter with flamers to no avail gretchin tend to show up and the like.

As far as the fighting and those in favor of nids lets bring up some facts about orks which might prove to be thorn in the nids side. The Nids operate on a intelligence and infiltration system of genestealers and lictors and when that fails normally the enemy (in this case the Imperium) is normally not in a rush to face them, giving them time to outflank and overwhelm. Bur orks are different, when we have a good fight we improve the nids will not we gain experience and apptitude for killing your race the longer we fight you till evenually orks start naturally favoring ways to deal with the bugs namely burna boyz and the like.

While we might not be facing the whole stength of the hive fleet nor are you facing the entire strength of the orks in that sector, it may be an empire but it doesn't mean the orks aren't still having to face other klans we constantly are squabbling. personally i think whoever the winner would be would soon prove to be the dominate power in that sub-sector if not segmentum! The thing about the orks is that they will thrive being slaughtered, entire war camps removed would sprout back up with implanted memories of where they failed behind enemy lines.

In essence GW made this war to make the imperium and eldar look smart while the orks and nids get to fight for supremacy fluff wise which should probably just remain a stale-mate. As much as nids pump themselves up in their codex the one thing to keep in mind is they come beyond the orks, in the ork codex the Imperium has yet to find a single area without orks somewhere nearby it even sending probes out during the infancy of the Imperium to the present day they are still get data flickers of orkinoid planets held on the very fringe of galaxy and beyond! The Nids are just invaders and much like a bee hive when they go on the attack since their location is more or less hidden they have little reason to defend themselves heavily instead they send all their bio-mass to attack like they have with the orks. in other works Nids power is in theory limited because they are invaders while the orks are inhabitors or natives giving them the element of "unknown"

And like a previous poster said every passing day the battlefield of this war only attracts new orks with promises of a good fight. Armageddon funny enough wasn't really that large of a Waaagh it was dangerous because orks made it landside and were organized enough to set up a 30 year game plan to cripple the planet with war. Armageddon wasn't an objective it was a liability for the Imperium Ghaz put the knives to it making the Imperium allocate resources to fighting the orks while he left to cause more mischeif knowing the Imperium as a whole got weaker while the orks as a whole kept applying pressure after Ghazzy sanctioned the planet as a good place for a proper fight. in other words Ghazghull outsmarted the Imperium to prove if he can't take the critical planet he can just try another while the Imperium has it's hands full already.

Given the fact that the 'nid codex makes it clear that the bugs will overwhelm the galaxy unless every races units against them, I think the ultimate answer is fairly straightforward.

That being said, individual races have won many times in single planet battles against the 'nids. It's a question of winning battles vs. winning the war.

Cyberwatt wrote:Given the fact that the 'nid codex makes it clear that the bugs will overwhelm the galaxy unless every races units against them, I think the ultimate answer is fairly straightforward.

That being said, individual races have won many times in single planet battles against the 'nids. It's a question of winning battles vs. winning the war.

Hmmm, not really. Note that the Ork codex also makes it clear that the Orks outnumber every other race in the galaxy combined. And the main rulebook indicates that Orks have spread OUTSIDE the galaxy, as well. . . so I wouldn't say 'nids have an undeniable advantage.

But when you're talking about one Waagh!/empire vs. one hive fleet. . . dunno. I tend to think that 'nids might win if they overwhelm a world or two quickly and eat them, gaining enough biomass to steamroller the rest of the Ork worlds nearby, but if the Orks hold them off, then as time goes on the balance would tip more and more towards the Orks. Why? Because it's a great big fight. . . word will spread, and from an ever-expanding radius, Orks will flock towards the battlefield. If the Orks are holding the Tyranids to a standstill, the Tyranids aren't really gaining much biomass, and the numbers of Orks opposing them are steadily increasing.

So; short, vicious war goes to the Tyranids, long stalemate eventually tilts towards the Orks, IMO.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Saying each started with roughly equal forces, then the Orks, Orks will release spores on death and rapidly increase their numbers whereas nids stay relatively the same size

But the spores aren't instantly turning into full grown orks, lol. It isn't like they die, and then pop out like one of those little Russian dolls, smaller and angrier.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Hmmm, not really. Note that the Ork codex also makes it clear that the Orks outnumber every other race in the galaxy combined. And the main rulebook indicates that Orks have spread OUTSIDE the galaxy, as well. . . so I wouldn't say 'nids have an undeniable advantage.

Are you sure it's just a matter of sheer numbers? The reason that orks haven't already overrun the galaxy is because they can't unite: they're just as likely to fight each other as they are other races. The 'nids are united from the start.

An interesting angle is that, aside from the Necron, the orks are the only one that can 'survive' and even thrive after the Tyranids have wiped out everything.

The ork spore reproduction system essentially terraform a planet and there seems to be no real limit to how harsh of an environment they can affect.

In short, for all we know, those orks that settled outside of the Galaxy may already be in one of the Galaxy the nids wiped clean and have repopulated the entire thing with an endless galaxy of ork.

Not to mention that the only thing needed for our galaxy is for the tyranids to miss one spore... and once they leave, it'll only be a matter of time (granted, a very long time) before the entire galaxy is once again brimming with orks.

Meaning that, ultimately, as far as the milky way is concerned, the orks win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cyberwatt wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Hmmm, not really. Note that the Ork codex also makes it clear that the Orks outnumber every other race in the galaxy combined. And the main rulebook indicates that Orks have spread OUTSIDE the galaxy, as well. . . so I wouldn't say 'nids have an undeniable advantage.

Are you sure it's just a matter of sheer numbers? The reason that orks haven't already overrun the galaxy is because they can't unite: they're just as likely to fight each other as they are other races. The 'nids are united from the start.

That's pretty easy logic here...

If the Ork united, they would take over the entire galaxy.

The Tyranids ARE united, and haven't taken the entire galaxy.

This is isn't a good point for the nids.

Tarkand wrote:
That's pretty easy logic here...

If the Ork united, they would take over the entire galaxy.

The Tyranids ARE united, and haven't taken the entire galaxy.

This is isn't a good point for the nids.

Okay, if you say so. I'm just referencing page 5 of the 'nid codex, 1st paragraph, last sentence.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Saying each started with roughly equal forces, then the Orks, Orks will release spores on death and rapidly increase their numbers whereas nids stay relatively the same size

But the spores aren't instantly turning into full grown orks, lol. It isn't like they die, and then pop out like one of those little Russian dolls, smaller and angrier.

correct but we can all agree the majority of nids isn't the big scary things of nids it's guants and if their is one thing I know about orks it's that they rape guants left and right with only a few of them due to their low toughness, armor and most are bad for init as well (unless we got to horomoguants)

what this means is a unit of orks will often develope a skill against fighting the nids they would live longer on average than their enemy (think driods vs clones) the orks may take a bit more time but they emerge anywhere they are defeated with knowledge to overhwhelm the bugs. And when orks emerge they are ready to fight albeit they have no tools yet but no when orks emerge they are grown that is why it takes about 2-3 weeks for orks to be born according to an older codex.

like the other pro ork players are saying the orks of this empire are still a divided people who are giving a stalemate to a united army this means ultimately if orks ever found the discipline (which they never will lol) they could crush the nid. But fighting is too fun to pass up I say it will probably end in a stalemate of epic proportions which other serves to enhance the abilities of both nids and orks.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Saying each started with roughly equal forces, then the Orks, Orks will release spores on death and rapidly increase their numbers whereas nids stay relatively the same size

I don't know if the nids will stay "relatively the same size" even if a lot of them die, they will get a lot of biomass from the fighting.

Just watch some people battle orks and 'nids in the game and see who wins most of the time. I think you'll fundamentally get who wins most the time.