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Can't help but think it's actually impossible to beat mech assault BA with a guard gunline.
This was my list today-
CCS-50
vox-5

Platoon
PCS-30
Flamer*4-20
vox-5
3*squads-150
Comissar-35
vox-5
Lascannon*3-45
power weapon*4-40
4*Heavy Weapons teams with lascannons (4*105)-425
Veterans-70
meltaguns*3-30
Leman Russ*2-300
Went pretty predictable, I had one turn of fire against him, managed to wreck a razorback and immobilise/weapon destroy a stormraven,
Then his second turn all his jump infantry assaulted me, also a unit deepstriked. Shot or assault and destroyed about a third of my army.
After that I didn't have the firepower to hurt him and it was all over, I was ripped to shreds in close combat.
Thing is, I have no idea how I could avoid that without spamming chimeras, which I don't have the models to do.
He was running, off the top of my head, mephiston, storm raven, vangard vets, dreadnaught, and assault marines with priest.

ba is hard but not undoable
bubble wrap your heavy hitters, drop heavy weapon teams with lascannons and get more beatstick

Bubble wrap and plasma cannon/guns. It's all you really need, just focus down his nasty flyer and keep firing.

Conscripts are easy meat shields, I would recommend using some.

I play a gunline Necron list, so the tactics are very similar to your IG. I've found that mech'd up BA with Mephiston is just about the worst matchup for my gunline Necrons. The only solution I've found is to dish out such a heinous amount of firepower that nothing can come close without being ripped to shreds. Sacrificial units work great as speed bumps, just so long as those units don't get wiped out in your own assault phase.

Ayup, I've had my fair share of Mr. Fistin with my gunline guard. my policy is never shoot at him unless you are sure you can kill him that round (or you have no other targets). I've lost twice to him because about half my army's shooting failed to kill him in a round of shooting. Remember he can only kill one thing/turn .

Bubblewrap, and also terrain and the board edges, are key for controlling deepstrike/outflank. I'd say bring more men, maybe lose the vets and bring more regulars. I'm usually controlling their options, in my deployment zone at least.

You don't have to spam chimeras to be competitive. I actually believe that chimeras in general have a deterimental effect on your competitiveness in the current meta.

However, you use none of the IG heavy hitters: Vendettas, hydras, manticores, executioners...

If you want to run an infantry heavy list supported by russes, that is also a possible competitive choice, but you need more infantry and they need special weapons. The naked russ is also not really an intimidating unit.

HWS and foot meltavets are not great choices. You have 425pts locked up in a decent number of lascannons, but at the same time, it is 425pts which are not at all survivable. 425pts is enough for a beefy platoon, which gives you much less lascannons, but much more survivability.

For tactical advice - remember that you do not have to blob. If you are up against a jump-heavy BA list, a blob is often a bad choice. FNP+FC charging assault marines rip through a blob, so it might be better to split up and get to fire at them after they rip a small squad to shreds. Of course, you need to have the ability to actually hurt them for this to work = special weapons and punchy firesupport.

Too many lascannons. I'd say 7 would be decent at that point level, and i'd go 2 LC HWS and one in the CCS. I think that's too many HWS period, considering you only have two units to screen with (if you blob and it looks like it). 4 + 2 tanks is too much. Some battles of course the HWS can be the screen, but against PA you probably want them shooting as long as possible. I'd drop one, there's 105pts, and downgrade the other to AC or ML for 15-30 more (ML maybe for the insta-kill on t4). Then I'd drop the LC's outta the blob, possibly trade them for plasma if you have the models (best for meq, matches the range/type of the lasguns and is same price as what you paid - you're cheating a little the LC's are 20 in PIS's).

It looks like the vet squad is on foot, I would think the opponent could easily neutralize or outmaneuver that melta. 100 points gets you two regular squads, you've got points to arm them and field another PCS. I would think about some 10-man, msu-style action for a second platoon - I've left blobs at home the last little while and am pretty much going full msu atm.

I'd drop the voxes too, but there's an argument for them in blobs. That CCS would look good with 2 plasma/lascannon as a gunline support unit that will kill mec, although I would think that a regimental standard would help the HWS stay in line. Probably too low of points for a Lord to do that job.

Take it with a grain of salt, deepstriking marines are probably the toughest for my gunline. My strategy is to push cheap 10 man squads out so that they are only thing they can shoot/assault with their fancy weapons, then slaughter them at close range. Blobs for bubblewrap have some disadvantages - they stick around too long, while blocking big chunks of LoS, and pile-in means guys get dragged from where you wanted bubblewrap.

What pts level is this for anyway? Your list adds up to 1210pts (and the pcs has no room for the vox - so it is illegal)

If you're playing 1200pt games, you have waaaay to many pts in lascannons. 2x3 squad platoons with lascannons + CCS with lascannon will give you plenty of lascannons for that pts level.

Cheers for the feedback guys, I like the MSU idea...30 S5 power weapon attacks are of limitted effectiveness against a unit of only 10 guardsmen.
I'm also trying not to rely on lasguns too much. Universal Feel No Pain (18 shots needed for every marine dead) and universal transports limit their effectiveness.
Anyway this is what I'm thinking for a 1250 point game:

CCS-50
lascannon-15(maybe 20, can't remember)
vox-5

1st platoon(fielded as a blob)
PCS-30, vox, 3*flamers-20
3*infantry squads-150
3*plasma-45
3*lascannon-60
commissar-35
power weapons (sargents and commissar)-20
1st platoon total-360

2nd platoon(MSU)
PCS-30, vox, 3*flamers-20
5*infantry squads-250
5*plasma guns-75
2nd platoon total-375

Leman Russ Battle Tank-150
Leman Russ Battle Tank-150
1105, that gives me 145 points to spend...enough for some lascannons

LC is 20 in a squad. That's probably enough LC's - maybe two on the LRBT's. You've got a decent mix of S9 and S7 ranged, with 2 S8 BC's and plenty of troops. Do you have a bassy? That would be more AT, anti-meq, and anti-horde. Or a third tank? Or a even a hellhound, as honestly you're looking pretty solid for anti-tank and anti-meq. Those are the thing's I'd be looking at. Might as well drop the vox's, or at least move one into the lascannon platoon.

i could proxy a basilisk if I wanted to, but open topped 12/10/10 won't survive against opponent's seemingly endless twin-linked lascannons.
Could squeeze a third LRBT in. Or make one a Demolisher to give me a hand against Sanguinary Guard/Terminators.

Drop the flamers, drop the meltaguns, drop the power weapons. If they get that close you're dead anyway, kill them before they get anywhere near you. Take as many heavy weapons and artillery vehicles as you can possibly manage, hide away in a corner of the battlefield, and blast the everloving gak out of the Blood Angels if they dare poke their shiny red helmets out into the light of day.

Seriously. ONE turn of shooting and then everything I have is charged by CC specialists. There's really naff all you can do.

Give them a squad to hit before they hit your blob/line.
When they kill it, they'll be in the open, ready to be mass fired to death.
If they're getting that close that quick, try a bane wolf.

Blood Angels can go wherever they like. Anything that's not completely bubble wrapped can be charged, and bubble wrapping leaves troops liable to being multi-charged (if you charge one unit but have a single model engage another unit, they can wipe out a unit but stay in combat with the other unit, meaning you can't shoot them.
Bane Wolf won't do much against a unit with 18" range other than give them something to melta bomb.

Joey wrote:Blood Angels can go wherever they like. Anything that's not completely bubble wrapped can be charged, and bubble wrapping leaves troops liable to being multi-charged (if you charge one unit but have a single model engage another unit, they can wipe out a unit but stay in combat with the other unit, meaning you can't shoot them.
Bane Wolf won't do much against a unit with 18" range other than give them something to melta bomb.

You're right, screw it. Let's quit. First rounds on you though.....

I wish i had solid answer that won't screw up your gunline theme.
But one of the best way to deal with mobility is, well, mobility. Have you tried
reserving. nevermind, you'll lose your lascannon shots when they arrive.

My friend runs his chimera vets with 3 PG per squad, and runs 2 of those and 2 CCs with 4 PG each.
Ive seen angles deep strike his his line and just evaporate.
Those 4 tanks pump out 28 STR 7 AP2 shots per turn. Its not a good day to be a BA jump infantry.

The rest of his army are vendettas with melta vets, a few russ' and manticores. Its a very hard nut to crack.

labmouse42 wrote:My friend runs his chimera vets with 3 PG per squad, and runs 2 of those and 2 CCs with 4 PG each.
Ive seen angles deep strike his his line and just evaporate.
Those 4 tanks pump out 28 STR 7 AP2 shots per turn. Its not a good day to be a BA jump infantry.

The rest of his army are vendettas with melta vets, a few russ' and manticores. Its a very hard nut to crack.

You missed the gunline part....

alarmingrick wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:My friend runs his chimera vets with 3 PG per squad, and runs 2 of those and 2 CCs with 4 PG each.
Ive seen angles deep strike his his line and just evaporate.
Those 4 tanks pump out 28 STR 7 AP2 shots per turn. Its not a good day to be a BA jump infantry.

The rest of his army are vendettas with melta vets, a few russ' and manticores. Its a very hard nut to crack.

You missed the gunline part....

Yeah. It'd be awesome if I had the money to have as many chimeras as I need but, alas...

BA are fast, sometimes even heroic intervention fast, so don't look too much to long-range guns to save you. They can help (especially against razorspam), but they can't carry you here. BA also have access to a lot of FNP. Death company are basically just as difficult to kill as plague marines, but much, much killier.

As such, you're best off with weapons that ignore FNP (and armor while you're at it), and are shorter range or are close combat. Stock up on lots of plasma and power weapons. Rough riders also wouldn't hurt, if you can find any way to field them.

Assuming that what constitutes most of your gunline firepower is plasma guns with some lascannons in there to handle the heavy transports they have, you should be fine.

Equip your guard platoons with lots of plasma weapons. They may blow up sometimes but any shot helps. Get lots of plasma weaponry. It would beat them up pretty bad. Then have heavy weapon squads of lascannons to get rid of the land raiders.
Then get a baneblade and laugh at his patheticness as you roll over his forces.

If I wanted special weapons wouldn't I be best off with as many veteran squads as possible?

Joey wrote:i could proxy a basilisk if I wanted to, but open topped 12/10/10 won't survive against opponent's seemingly endless twin-linked lascannons.
Could squeeze a third LRBT in. Or make one a Demolisher to give me a hand against Sanguinary Guard/Terminators.

Nine basalisks in reserve.

Roll on firing...

Joey wrote:If I wanted special weapons wouldn't I be best off with as many veteran squads as possible?

Yes, but you'll also need Chimera or Valkyrie/Vendettas for them to be at their best. Well, Imho.

CCS
4x Plasma
MotF
Chimera

CCS
4x Plasma
Chimera

PCS
4x Melta
Chimera

30 man Infantry Blob
3x Lascannon
Commissar

PCS
4x Melta
Chimera

30 man Infantry Blob
3x Lascannon
Commissar

This comes to 1100pts so you have spare points. You get bubblewrapping units which also put out a healthy amount of firepower. Also very resilient in cc and shooting due to numbers. The MotF helps screw with reserve rolls if you are worried about DS, and the amount of plasma, heavy flamer and melta will discourage anyone getting real close. Chimeras can be used as sacrificial tools to manipulate where your opponent moves, as firebases (for the most part this is where they shine) or alternatively to tank shock if you want to line people up for some heavy flamer love.

I did mention foot guard. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to really field chimeras, much as I'd love to.
Actually I suppose if I wasn't using any actual tanks I could proxy chimeras as long as there weren't TOO many.
I never thought it was possible for guard to win without plentiful AV14.

AV 12 spam is a well known phenomenon. We used to have a Guard player over here in Shanghai who ran (and won for the most part) a real steamroller of a list. Then the local meta changed and IG has fallen out of favour in the competitive setting. But don't be fooled. IG are a top tier army in every sense.

I think proxying 4 Chimeras to see if the list works wouldn't be unreasonable at all.

Ive played against DoA a few times. I run 2 30 man power blobs with acs. And then 4 msu squads for screening and scoring. I deploy to were if he wants to ds next to me, his squads face my entire army. Turn 1 I use bring it down to take out or delay as many razorbacks as i can. Usually 2. Then shoot my acs at a few more. so turn 1 i can shut down or destroy 4-8 razorbacks or storm ravens. The when he ds turn 2 his units are bunched up. Perfect for pie plates. Then its a bunch of las to take out some guys.

My list

CCS
Lascannon
Vox
Regimental Standard
OotF

Platoon x 2
Pcs
Lascanon
Vox
Plasmagun

Infantry squad x 3
Power weapon
Autocanon
Plasmagun

Commissar with power weapon in one squad.

Infantry Squad x 2
Meltagun

Vendetta
Vendetta

Manticore
Manticore
Leman Russ Demolisher

Comes out to around 1845. Usually play at 1850.

He didn't DOA me. Only the sanguinery guard deep striked.
Okay next time I will try a couple of power blobs with chimeras and loaded out command teams.
Though I can't see what will stop those chimeras from just being blown up and the expensive weapon teams inside getting S4 hits...

As has been said, roadblock units are a great investment. 80 points for 20 conscripts provide a useful screen, but usually you can just un-blob one platoon for layered roadblocking.

Also, a unit with some CC counterpunch is great. I like Straken, he gives nearby units like a powerblob more punch and is no pushover himself. Ogryn can also work.

Finally, the ability to threaten the backfield can be huge, as it makes your agressive opponent need to hold something back instead of just zerging you. Al-raheem is the usuall choice, but other options include sentinels, penal legion, or Creed giving a platoon some outflank.