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I got mashed to a fungal pulp when throwing my Orks against a Grey Knights army. Have also had the same problem with Tyranids.
These armies can deep strike the whole army which is a problem when you have rampaging orks who just want to get into the fightin'
Anyone got tactical options which might help me survive a little longer.
Thankfully we were playing an objective game and just managed to scrape a draw by hiding some units in buildings around the objectives (not at all Orky!!) and having one Ork Nob sitting on an objective who just refused to die.
That was thanks to some unbelievable dice rolls for saves and the fact that the game ended at turn 5.
So, any ideas anyone??

Yeah. Don't fight GK. We mash you.


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play mech orks?

Don't spread out.

Wow, you've gotten really weak/non advice here. Sorry about that.

I'm having trouble understanding why deepstriking is a problem for an ork foot army (based on your description it sounds like you're playing foot orks).

Deepstrike is usually used to get close to the enemy--but that's what you want. If he deepstrikes close enough to shoot, then he gets his one volley (and you have your KFF and are spread out enough to minimize flamer damage) then you mob him and kill him. Why is this a problem?

If your playing foot works just make it hard on him to find a good landing spot. Dt and mishaps help in this. I would spread them out so he couldn't get to many with templets or multiassaults.

Wait, he's deepstriking AS a grey knights player?

The problem with going in reserve at the beginning is that you're wasting roughly a third of your killing power by spending that much time off the board doing nothing. Meanwhile, you're a horde, which means if you spread way out, the amount of points per square foot is going to be VERY thin. You can see how this would make it so that your opponent has neither the time, nor the force concentration (on both sides) for him to be able to do very much damage before the game ends.

If you take first turn, you've got two whole turns of movement to absolutely dominate the field. You will have your units more or less where you want them, in a position that will help fend off deepstrikers, in the right terrain, etc. Once you've done this, your opponent is going to be reacting to you, which means what initiative he was hoping to gain through reserves and deepstriking will be thinned.

Once he lands, you'll be in your strong position and can handle him accordingly, based on where he's weakest. With proper movement, there shouldn't be all that many places particularly strong for him to attack from.

Plus, if you have 120 ork models on the board, that's 600 square inches of board where your opponent will mishap. Give that a 6" buffer (so as to keep scatter mishaps down), and you're talking about 1344 square inches where your opponent can't deepstrike. A 4x6 foot board has only 3456 square inches, and much of that is in dead space in the corners and the like.

Played properly, your opponent will have nowhere to deepstrike to, and those places he has will be crammed into corners, or out in the open, or in any number of opportune places for you to handle him on your turn.

EDITED FOR CORRECTNESS

I have turned to mounting my Boyz for mobility, hitting GKs where they are weaker and avoiding the big mash up with Paladins. I also stopped bringing Nobz to tournaments because of Gray Knights Force Weapons as well. Better to spend those points on Boyz in Battlewagons than 60+ point models that can be IK by 20 point Marines.

As for Tyranids, you have to either assault them first to take advantage of your Furious Charge and to take away theirs, or allow them to assault you in cover so that they are Initiative 1. Once again, hard to do for foot-slogging Orks.

As for being Orky, yes, you are the brutal Fists of Gork, smashing the enemy to pieces, but you are also the kunnin' Teef o' Mork, striking where the enemy is weakest and winning as much by slaughtering the enemy as denying him victory. There is no shame in outsmarting an opponent.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:That is up to 12 GK Terminators and 3 Techmarines that WILL NOT mishap in your lines on Turn 1.

Nor will they arrive anywhere near anything useful. They may not mishap, but they still can't deepstrike right on top of ork models. If you have a 24" buffer around every objective, that means that said deathstar unit has no choice but to show up far away from anything useful.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Or Purifiers. Nothing an Ork foot-horde can deal with. Sorry.

Once again, it's a matter of time. If those purifiers don't show up until turn 3, and don't get into close combat until turn 4, they may kill a lot of models, but as a horde commander, you know that your opponent racking up a high body count, even over just a couple of turns, isn't really important.

Ailaros wrote:Nor will they arrive anywhere near anything useful. They may not mishap, but they still can't deepstrike right on top of ork models. If you have a 24" buffer around every objective, that means that said deathstar unit has no choice but to show up far away from anything useful.

24" to move with 6" movement, 6" charge, and D6" consolidation turns 3, 4, and 5. And what is the rest of you army doing to his?

EDITED FOR CORRECTNESS

Let him land one unit of purifiers right next to you. With only one target I'm sure the 90+ boys would really enjoy something to shoot at. Being on foot they are hopefully shoota boys, and on average from that many orks there would be 10 dead MEQ's.

If anything survives the shooting (this is assuming you don't have things like lootaz) then charge it with something that has an armor save to reduce casualties from the purifying flame, or toss a squad of kans at it.

Okay, this is quickly devolving into how orks should stop purifiers, not how orks should stop deepstrikers.

Stopping deepstrikers has tried and true castle tactics. Stopping purifiers is a different issue. The fact that they can deepstrike doesn't make this a deepstrike issue in itself.

Is Mordrak an independent character? Don't have codex handy, but I don't remember him being so... If not he can't join those purifiers or paladins and bring them in first turn...

Swamping GK in wounds always works no matter what... Lots of boys and get the charge.

I should probably point out that like Crowe, Mordrak is not an IC. He can't join Purifiers or indeed anything other than the optional Ghost Knight unit he can buy. The scariest you can make his unit is Mordrak, Draigo, 3 Techmarines and 5 Terminators, which is stupidly expensive. Fortunately you can almost completely ignore them since it only has Storm Bolters and isn't fast enough to catch you (feed it a Mob to slow it down if you have to).

@rpricew. Unfortunately you can't just swamp GK's with Boyz if you are facing Purifiers, you lose nearly half a Mob per turn to Cleansing Flame. Against a MSU type build (i.e the most common) you can charge, lose half the Mob before you strike (to Cleansing Flame + Halberds), probably don't wipe the unit therefore lose and take Fearless saves and then get countercharged by another unit of 5 Purifiers which double up on Cleansing Flame and wipe your Mob pretty easily.

Um, Mordrak can't accompany a unit of purifiers because he's not an independent character. Nor terminators either.

He can only accompany a unit of Ghost Knights, with a max unit size of 5, not including any who get spawned by M's wounds.

Who doesn't know anything about the codex?

WaaghAI - I think ultimately the best place to *start* here is to tell us what you're running and what you have available

But in the end, the easiest way to deal with a GK army is simply sheer weight of fire / attacks - which shouldn't be an issue for Orks.

To deal with Deep Striking armies that start off the field, it's simply a matter of using the free unoposed time in positioning your units where ever the hell you want, take objectives to hold, slip units into cover and ideal firing locations, move vehicles that can fast enough to gain the cover save into premium firing arcs and deny what decent drop points they have.

Force them to drop at edges and/or in or near terrain and generally do your best to control the table top.

ThatEdGuy wrote:Let him land one unit of purifiers right next to you. With only one target I'm sure the 90+ boys would really enjoy something to shoot at. Being on foot they are hopefully shoota boys, and on average from that many orks there would be 10 dead MEQ's.

If anything survives the shooting (this is assuming you don't have things like lootaz) then charge it with something that has an armor save to reduce casualties from the purifying flame, or toss a squad of kans at it.

Yes, they would shoot them to pieces if you dedicated 875 points to guarding one objective (~750 in Boyz, ~125 in Kanz), and the GK player was foolish enough to Deep Strike within 24" of every Boy (6" move, 18" Shoota), which, because of unit dispersion, would have to be in the middle of the 3 Mobz, and within 12" of the Killa Kanz, who would have to be in the middle of the Boyz to get to you. No, if you leave half of your army sitting on one Objective, then you will have problems other than Deep Striking Purifiers.


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Flavius Infernus wrote:Who doesn't know anything about the codex?

Apparently me. I aplogize for being incorrect and snide. I have had several GK players whom I highly respect for their integrity and knowledge of the game Deep Strike large squads of Paladins on me without scattering. Who or what makes that possible for the GKs? Maybe it wasn't Mordrak. I am reluctant to say these gentlemen are wrong.

the biggest thing with deepstrike armies is that they come on piecemail and are thus weaker. they also arrive somewhat randomly, wich you may be able to take advantage of.

my adivse for orks is to get as much fast moving and ranged attacks as possible. so shoota boys in trukks, lootas in battlewagons and maybe some basic bikes for additonal rapid response... then castle up in a corner.

- this prevents the deepstrikers surrounding you, wich is good.
- it forces the deepstriker to either A: risk getting close and facing your entire army head on, or go further back and thus limit its effectivness, since *most* deepstrikers like to work up close and personal. (inside 24")
- once he arrives your speed and range can close the gap and eliminate each threat as it arrives.

i would not rely on forcing mishaps to win. spreading out is exactly what a deepstriking force wants you to do, as once they can arrive then can nuetrelize frations of your army while minimizing losses. it also allows them to establish a firebase, doing the above to you instead. plus, alot of deepstrike lists dont care about mishaps anyway. (drop pods, tyrgons, DoA, monoliths, etc)

the biggest advantage orcs have in any game is the numbers, and speed. sure 12 orcs on 10 marines sucks....but 40 orcs on the same marines is a diffrent game. to max out on this, trukks, BW, and bikes so you can move quick, and keep your army together. a spread out orc army is a dead one....or at the best a wet noodle slapping a semi truck.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Who doesn't know anything about the codex?

Apparently me. I aplogize for being incorrect and snide. I have had several GK players whom I highly respect for their integrity and knowledge of the game Deep Strike large squads of Paladins on me without scattering. Who or what makes that possible for the GKs? Maybe it wasn't Mordrak. I am reluctant to say these gentlemen are wrong.

a game of war and you are relying on the integrity of the opponent
Jokes asides- always read your opponents codex. the human race are notorious cheaters. And quite frankly people simply up from time to time. They get their wires crossed, mistake one statline for another, misinterpret rules. I'll put my hand up and say one time I was a little inebriated (little=a ing lot!) and wrote a 2k army list that came out at 2345 points. How do you do that ! 345 extra points??? A friend of mine had a crack at playing IG. He normally plays SM. He thought Chimeras had side armor 12. Because rhino's have the same front and side, right? He was just in SM mode. And had had a few beers All I'm saying is always read the rulebook and the codex if you're not 100% (and I mean 100%) sure- its not rude or disrespectful, and it only helps you remember the rules better and play better (and quicker too I might add). I'd say anyone questioning why I want to see their codex in a game is rude/disrespectful.

DreadlordME! wrote:Yeah. Don't fight GK. We mash you.


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Yeah That's contributing to the discussion. Totally. Nice +1 post you tool.