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I have not played many large games and the other day playing I heard a dispute over forge world models if they were legal in standard games and I left right in the middle of it and I am a bit curious.

Usually, yes; it'll say in it's entry.

Iranna.

It depends on the model.

A Baneblade as a IG tank, no.

A lucius pattern drop pod as a normal drop pod, yes.

You need your opponent's permission to use anything in a game. Many people will let you use FW models, some will let you use their rules (often a good plan to let them read them and talk through with them before the game).

Some tournaments will have ruled to allow or not allow all or some FW units/rules.

Officially, usually yes.

As a stand in, yes.

In tournaments, generally no, but look at the rules.

But by custom if you are going to use non-codex rules it is polite to let your opponent know and ask their permission. There are still a large amount of players who don't like playing against forgeworld units, and it is better to find out at the beginning of the game than on turn 3.

As SilverMK2 noted, you technically need your opponents permission to play ANYTHING in a casual game. If they don't want to play your grey knights they don't have too.

Rumours suggest this will finally be settled by 6th Edition with an official statement that FW rules are GW rules, basically meaning Imperial Armour rules will get the official seal.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that the FW rules go through the design studio and are put to exactly the same tests, etc. FW is small and doesn't have the in-house staff to write this stuff.

That sure will be nice huh,

The new IA with wolves just got released, hopefully it'll be official so I have an excuse to buy it.

Honestly, asking on the internet isn't going to get you the answer you want, because the internet isn't who you are playing against.

If you're looking to use Forgeworld stuff at a tournament, check the tournament rules to see if you can. If you want to use Forgeworld stuff against your friends or regulars at your FLGS, ask them.

All you'll get off the internet is the usual stuff. 'All Forgeworld stuff or borken!' 'All Forgewolrd stuff is legal!' 'NOU!' 'NOU!!!1'.

It all depends on your opponent or the tournament you want to play at, so those are the only people whose answer you should get. However, don't let possible refusals stop you buying something from Forgeworld - they're great modeling projects. Buy them with the intention of having fun putting them together, and think of people letting you play them as icing on the cake.

So long as the forgeworld model you are using is about the same size and the same base size as the model you are looking to represent, everything should be fine.

Beyond that, you need permission.

Legal in standard games are units of the Codex. Forge World models usually are not included. If you use units not included in the Codex, you should ask your opponent, if he is fine with them. Because of respect for your opponent and because many Forge World units are less balanced than legal Codex units. Certainly for super-heavies, flyers or Titans, but can also be the case for a Land Raider variant. Of course in privat, friendly games, you can agree on playing anything, if both of you are fine with it.

I have an ig list that everything is deathkorps of krieg but everything is wysiwyg. I've not had a problem at tournaments.

juraigamer wrote:So long as the forgeworld model you are using is about the same size and the same base size as the model you are looking to represent, everything should be fine.

Beyond that, you need permission.

But no more permission than you require to play with a regular model or codex.

You might run into someone who simply refuses to play against Eldar. Which makes just as much sense as someone refusing to play FW units.

It depends on the model and how it would fit into the codex. For example I own two forgeworld grey knight dreadnoughts, and I use them as dreadnoughts in my grey knight army.

They are the same size and follow the WYSIWYG rules and also adhere to the codex rules.

On the otherhand, trying to play with a model that is not designed for regular 40k games would probably not be allowed; a lot of the heavy Imperial armour tanks fall under that category. Anything with structure points will be prohibited.

CountDeath wrote:On the otherhand, trying to play with a model that is not designed for regular 40k games would probably not be allowed; a lot of the heavy Imperial armour tanks fall under that category. Anything with structure points will be prohibited.

Units not designed for 'standard' games of 40k have a series of roadblocks built into the rules to stop you using them anyway. Those 'heavy tanks' are super heavy vehicles, which require the game to either be an Apocalypse game or be over 2500 points and have multiple detachments allowed. They take an entire force organisation chart themselves. This allows the opponent to take another entire force organisation chart worth of troops to combat the super heavy vehicle on top of their regular FoC. There's no actual way to just 'slip' a super heavy into a game without adhering to those limitations. Doing otherwise is cheating. The only exception is scenarios specifcally including them.

Kaldor wrote:

juraigamer wrote:So long as the forgeworld model you are using is about the same size and the same base size as the model you are looking to represent, everything should be fine.

Beyond that, you need permission.

But no more permission than you require to play with a regular model or codex.

You might run into someone who simply refuses to play against Eldar. Which makes just as much sense as someone refusing to play FW units.

That's soooo not true.

I'd rather not play against FW units. Normal codexes I've at least perused, know sort of how the army works, know basically what to expect. If there's a rules question, the codex is right there on the shelf 99% of the time.

With FW units (yes, I'm going to exaggerate here) you could tell me that Wolf McWolferson can shoot JotWW from his eyes (so 2 of em) and lightning bolts from his arse and I'd have no idea if you were blowing smoke or not.

If you have the book and don't mind postponing until I've thoroughly read the rules that pertain to that unit, I might play. If you don't have the book, or don't want to let me read your copy at the gaming table, then no - you can find another game.

If someone comes in and wants to play a normal Eldar force but doesn't have their book (left it at home and they live an hour away, for example) I'll still play them - because it's easy to look up rules questions.

Yes.

They don't HAVE to say yes, and you should inform him before playing, but only a HUGE HUGE HUGE dick would ever say no.

im2randomghgh wrote:Yes.

They don't HAVE to say yes, and you should inform him before playing, but only a HUGE HUGE HUGE dick would ever say no.

Exactly. Most people should be chill about it and anyone who isn't is probably just afraid to fight something theyve never seen

TheAngrySquig wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Yes.

They don't HAVE to say yes, and you should inform him before playing, but only a HUGE HUGE HUGE dick would ever say no.

Exactly. Most people should be chill about it and anyone who isn't is probably just afraid to fight something theyve never seen

Correct.

Also, most people don't seem to realize that a lot of forgeworld stuff is actually BETTER BALANCED than most codices...they see a big strong unit and forget that it costs 2x an equivalent unit from the codex.

THANK YOU IM2RANDOM, SOMEONE ELSE SEES IT! I've seen too many people bang their heads against the wall over a FW unit, then pointed out that it was an extra 100 points then it c:sm equivilant

TheAngrySquig wrote:THANK YOU IM2RANDOM, SOMEONE ELSE SEES IT! I've seen too many people bang their heads against the wall over a FW unit, then pointed out that it was an extra 100 points then it c:sm equivilant

Right there.

Also, whenever I break out the XV9s, people bitch about them, and then they realize my 9 suits costs more than a thousand points.

rigeld2 wrote:I'd rather not play against FW units. Normal codexes I've at least perused, know sort of how the army works, know basically what to expect. If there's a rules question, the codex is right there on the shelf 99% of the time.

With FW units (yes, I'm going to exaggerate here) you could tell me that Wolf McWolferson can shoot JotWW from his eyes (so 2 of em) and lightning bolts from his arse and I'd have no idea if you were blowing smoke or not.

If you have the book and don't mind postponing until I've thoroughly read the rules that pertain to that unit, I might play. If you don't have the book, or don't want to let me read your copy at the gaming table, then no - you can find another game.

If someone comes in and wants to play a normal Eldar force but doesn't have their book (left it at home and they live an hour away, for example) I'll still play them - because it's easy to look up rules questions.

People using anything ever should have their book on them whether you're playing in a GW store, in an independant LGS, on a picnic blanket on the beach, whever you're playing. Not having the books with your units rules in it should never happen. So refusing to play someone because they don't have their book to show you the rules is absolutely fine. If they have the book and let you read it, I can't see where any more objections should come from, since this is what you do when someone brings a normal codex army you've neveer played against.

-Loki- wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:I'd rather not play against FW units. Normal codexes I've at least perused, know sort of how the army works, know basically what to expect. If there's a rules question, the codex is right there on the shelf 99% of the time.

With FW units (yes, I'm going to exaggerate here) you could tell me that Wolf McWolferson can shoot JotWW from his eyes (so 2 of em) and lightning bolts from his arse and I'd have no idea if you were blowing smoke or not.

If you have the book and don't mind postponing until I've thoroughly read the rules that pertain to that unit, I might play. If you don't have the book, or don't want to let me read your copy at the gaming table, then no - you can find another game.

If someone comes in and wants to play a normal Eldar force but doesn't have their book (left it at home and they live an hour away, for example) I'll still play them - because it's easy to look up rules questions.

People using anything ever should have their book on them whether you're playing in a GW store, in an independant LGS, on a picnic blanket on the beach, whever you're playing. Not having the books with your units rules in it should never happen. So refusing to play someone because they don't have their book to show you the rules is absolutely fine. If they have the book and let you read it, I can't see where any more objections should come from, since this is what you do when someone brings a normal codex army you've neveer played against.

Meh.

-Loki- wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:I'd rather not play against FW units. Normal codexes I've at least perused, know sort of how the army works, know basically what to expect. If there's a rules question, the codex is right there on the shelf 99% of the time.

With FW units (yes, I'm going to exaggerate here) you could tell me that Wolf McWolferson can shoot JotWW from his eyes (so 2 of em) and lightning bolts from his arse and I'd have no idea if you were blowing smoke or not.

If you have the book and don't mind postponing until I've thoroughly read the rules that pertain to that unit, I might play. If you don't have the book, or don't want to let me read your copy at the gaming table, then no - you can find another game.

If someone comes in and wants to play a normal Eldar force but doesn't have their book (left it at home and they live an hour away, for example) I'll still play them - because it's easy to look up rules questions.

People using anything ever should have their book on them whether you're playing in a GW store, in an independant LGS, on a picnic blanket on the beach, whever you're playing. Not having the books with your units rules in it should never happen. So refusing to play someone because they don't have their book to show you the rules is absolutely fine. If they have the book and let you read it, I can't see where any more objections should come from, since this is what you do when someone brings a normal codex army you've neveer played against.

See im convinced you work for GW, this is exactly what they say at my store xD

LunaHound wrote:See im convinced you work for GW, this is exactly what they say at my store xD

I don't even like going to my local GW. One good staff to talk to isn't enough. Though he is pretty cool. I wish he quit and went to work at my local independant store.

-Loki- wrote:

LunaHound wrote:See im convinced you work for GW, this is exactly what they say at my store xD

I don't even like going to my local GW. One good staff to talk to isn't enough. Though he is pretty cool. I wish he quit and went to work at my local independant store.

I like GW locations better TBH.

im2randomghgh wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

LunaHound wrote:See im convinced you work for GW, this is exactly what they say at my store xD

I don't even like going to my local GW. One good staff to talk to isn't enough. Though he is pretty cool. I wish he quit and went to work at my local independant store.

I like GW locations better TBH.

My local GW is a closet run by 3 staff (yeah, 3 staff for a closet) with one gaming table and a single good staff out of those 3. It follows the internet standard of having a clientele of 12-15 year olds on average.

My FLGS has a gaming hall 4 times the size of the GW withabout 20 fully sculpted tables and boxes and boxes of terrain, a store area bigger than the GW carrying GW, Mantic, Corvus Belli, PP FoW and lots of historical ranges, as well as armorcast, maxmini, iron halo and other small resin makers ranges, and various companies who make different terrain sets. They carry GW, P3, Vallejo and Galeforce9 hobby stuff and paints. They have a full kitchen that serves hot food as well as real coffee. They have great staff, consistently give me discounts for being a regular, and organise leagues and tournaments for all of the major systems. The majority of the people (well, the non-MTG players) are all older people who are, in general, good to talk to.

I'd rather not go to GW.

im2randomghgh wrote:They don't HAVE to say yes, and you should inform him before playing, but only a HUGE HUGE HUGE dick would ever say no.

Why stop at insulting your opponent? Force him with a gun to play against your Forge World models! After all, the game is for YOU to have fun, not for your opponent! Serves him well to be slowly crushed by your Baneblade without being able to do anything but watching!

im2randomghgh wrote:Yes.

They don't HAVE to say yes, and you should inform him before playing, but only a HUGE HUGE HUGE dick would ever say no.

Exactly, this.

DeathReaper wrote:
A Baneblade as a IG tank, no.

It's funny why people always come up with the baneblade as the choice of no-no from FW even though they don't sell them anymore.

As a rule of thumb, FW = OK in normal games UNLESS it's a superheavy or flying unit (both usually imbalance the game to a degree that it's no longer fun).

Also, for FW in tournaments it's ALWAYS up to the Tournament Organizer. Usually, FW units are forbidden due to rule disputes and the limited amount of time allocated to each game, additional unfamiliar rules to most of the tournament crowd will just make things less smooth so most tournaments don't allow the units. The FW models themselves are perfectly acceptable as stand ins for codex units. Some tournaments will allow them, others will forbid them in the end there is no regulating body that says FW units are illegal or fan-made. Don't let anybody else convince you otherwise since FW is a subsidiary of GW, meaning that you can use IA units in a normal game IF you and your opponent want to.

There's no point in playing a game that both you and your opponent won't enjoy, so make sure everybody is happy with whatever you are using (be it IA or codex) before you begin playing!

Isengard wrote:Rumours suggest this will finally be settled by 6th Edition with an official statement that FW rules are GW rules, basically meaning Imperial Armour rules will get the official seal.

Yes, if you have a hard time separating rumours from wishlisting...then I guess you could say that.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that the FW rules go through the design studio and are put to exactly the same tests, etc. FW is small and doesn't have the in-house staff to write this stuff.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that you are wrong.