Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so... stupid question.

Do you get an invulnerable save from the C'Tan's Gaze of Death ability?

Invuln, yes, certainly. Cover is a much better question


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At first glance, it would appear that you would get cover saves if in area terrain and possibly other ways. I think it hinges on whether or not you believe these "hits" are CC hits. They are during the assault phase, but they do not count towards the number of woulds for assault resolution.

foolishmortal wrote:Invuln, yes, certainly. Cover is a much better question

No, I do not believe you get cover saves.

Gaze of Death happens "after all other blows in the C'tan Shards Combat..."

And "...models do not get cover saves against any wounds suffered in close combat..."

Edit: for clarity.

As above. It indicates it is some form of close combat attack.

Invul for sure, cover absolutely not. You don't get cover vs a power fist

The attack doesn't say it ignores invun, so you get invun.

I'm not saying they do get cover, I'm saying I'm undecided. The fact that the hits don't count towards combat resolution and hit friend and foe alike are enough to make me think about it for a minute

I would suggest that it would be similar to a vehicle exploding - thus cover may actually be confered.

The only other model i can think of that has a similar affect is Yriel with his one per game blast but that specifically has an AP and thus follows the shooting rules...

It's a special ability used in close combat, not a shooting attack; You can't take cover saves from cleansing flame.

What's that eldar IC's once-per-game, large-blast-marker in CC ability called? does it use similar language and is there a ruling on it?

Comparing cleansing flame to gaze of death is not accurate.

Cleansing flame is done before blows are struck, it hits every model automatically and the FAQ specifies that Wyches can dodge it - thus making it a CC attack

Gaze of flame does not count for combat res and as such I would not count them as CC attacks

Except it is described as a combat attack - "after all other blows in the C'tan Shards Combat..."

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except it is described as a combat attack - "after all other blows in the C'tan Shards Combat..."

yes, all other blows in the C'tan shard's combat. After the blows at Init 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 in the combat involving the C'tan shard. This gives the timing of the special ability. Inferring that this describes Gaze of Death as Close Combat attack is not without assumptions.

So after OTHER blows you perform THIS "blow"

Again, I'm not saying that they get cover saves. I'm saying it's an unusual ability with some odd properties that should not be dismissed out of hand.

edit: the odd properties
1) It happens after all other blows in a combat, presumably even after blows like power fists.
2) It uses the large blast marker rather than WS vs WS to determine hits.
3) It hits friend and foe alike (just not itself)
4) It does not count towards wounds for combat resolution



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A CCB's sweep attacks are not considered CC attacks even through they benefit from strength bonuses and special abilities of the embarked character's close combat weapon.

...because they are a) not performed while in combat and b) are never called anything LIKE a close combat attack

This is called out as being a "blow", and states that the other attacks are also "blows"