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Out of the 3 major types of lists, which one is the best? I would say the kabal, because you are excellent at shooting and not terrible in CC. You also have the most AT capability. I would rank them 1) Kabal 2) Coven 3) Cult. What are yOur opinions dakka?

Depends; i usually swap between Wych and Kabal myself. A wych army with haywire grenades in raiders and with ravager support has plenty of anti tank for an average force. Whilst a kabal, really would need incubi/Archon retinue to be effective in CC, high initiative can only carry them so far. Also, if you mount a few wyche squads in venoms then you're pretty much covered for AI firepower. So personally I would say Wyches are the best since they usually come with vehicles that carry the AT guns anyway, or are escorted by ravagers; but are much better at CC. The Kabal dark lance is far too expensive IMO to equip and only str8 so its unlikely to achieve much even with the lance ability.

You only need a 4+ to pen with the lance ability, but yeah I understand. But Wyches are so atrocious out of combat that it really hurts them. And raiders are av 10, they aren't lasting very long.

Well, first off there is definitely more than just 3 types of army, you have Kabal, Coven, Cult, Hellion Gang, Webway portal, Venom Spam, Raider Spam. More can be made, but they are the mains. But there really isn't a single best as such, The best usually come from a combination, often with haemonculi as HQ Wyches as Combat troops, the odd 5 man warriors squad and trueblaster squads

Deraiderspam wrote:Well, first off there is definitely more than just 3 types of army, you have Kabal, Coven, Cult, Hellion Gang, Webway portal, Venom Spam, Raider Spam. More can be made, but they are the mains. But there really isn't a single best as such, The best usually come from a combination, often with haemonculi as HQ Wyches as Combat troops, the odd 5 man warriors squad and trueblaster squads

But
Kabal = Venom Spam
Cult = Raider Spam
Coven = Webway Portal
and Hellion gang although a true build different from the rest doesn't really have a place in competitive play

I think Kabal is top, the sheer number of dark light you can put out + sheer number of splinter cannon shots makes for a very strong army with few bad matchups.

If you could only get units from that theme then Kabal would definitely be at the top without the shadow of a doubt, buts its the support that they give helps push forward the other sections

Well obviously a combo will be best, but I'm saying if you HAD to pick one, which would be best

Kabal everytime

TheAngrySquig wrote:You only need a 4+ to pen with the lance ability, but yeah I understand. But Wyches are so atrocious out of combat that it really hurts them. And raiders are av 10, they aren't lasting very long.

True, but those same weaknesses apply to kabalites. 5+ armour and mounted in raiders. On foot, well, they'd be slaughtered either unit since you're only as tough as a guardsmen but cost a fair bit more. Deploying kabalites in cover has worked for me in the past, but for a theme I dont think static gunline and dark eldar go together

I don't know. I still only have a very small force, 2 squads of kabalites, 2 ravagers, and an Archon, so in all the games I've played I've basically been forced to play a static gunline. I generally lose one squad or most of one squad and a single ravager, but everything else remains and does fairly well for themselves

Dark Eldar are meant to be glass hammer and I agree that my mechanised army relies on dictating the terms of the battle to win. (By which I mean I always charge first and luck mean my loses to shooting aren't too drastic). In fact, I once did a gunline made out of raiders n ravagers n foot kablaites with disintegrator cannons and dark lances against a meq army. It worked .

I suppose that idea works best with kabalites supported by more mobile shooty units n counter attack CC units BUT wyches really need those raiders to get into CC and get their charging bonus.

BTW, two ravagers in a 500pt game? Really? 18 str5 ap2 shots. No wonder you don't have much trouble being charged!

They should really have let you squadren those monsters.

For looks- Coven I love my coven stuff.. Evil scientists all the way!

For effectiveness- Kabal, against most opponents.

I'm not so sure about squadroned Ravagers (as they'd all have to fire on the same target. DL ones would be a tad overkill on vehicles. but disintegrator squadrons would be awesome on MEQ

I would like to be able to squadron razorwings/voidravens though. They would make more sense as a squadron, to me.

Kabal and Haemy lists are tried and tested builds. But are "pure" Wych lists viable, ladies and gents?

I've yet to see one on the tabletop. Dunno, I may be interested in trying...

I've run them a few times, with Lilith and a succubus as HQ's.

They do better with haemy support, but they can work without.

It does depend on who you wind up against for viability though.

Against troops with no real armour save Wyches are pretty good. You will hit first, and with decent rolling take them off the board. The raiders will make nice holes in transports and tanks for you.

The moment you go against 4+ or better armour you struggle though, as most wyches don't have power weapons, and that means they'll get to hit you back when you're done. Even A 4+ Inv save only goes so far.

You're also very vulnerable when your paper airplane transport gets shot down, leaving you and your 6+ save high and dry, without haemys to give you FNP.

I've used it to great effect against orks, tau and eldar/other dark eldar.

Guard tend to not let your skimmers near enough, marines and CSM have that ugly 3+ or better save...

Can't speak for nids or necrons vs this build, as i've not tried it yet vs them.

Kabal, if that includes reavers.

i like the kabal shooty list myself... but i have alot of respect for the wych cult builds. those can be SCARY and still throw out a ton of AT. reavers still suck IMHO.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Dark Eldar are meant to be glass hammer and I agree that my mechanised army relies on dictating the terms of the battle to win. (By which I mean I always charge first and luck mean my loses to shooting aren't too drastic). In fact, I once did a gunline made out of raiders n ravagers n foot kablaites with disintegrator cannons and dark lances against a meq army. It worked .

I suppose that idea works best with kabalites supported by more mobile shooty units n counter attack CC units BUT wyches really need those raiders to get into CC and get their charging bonus.

BTW, two ravagers in a 500pt game? Really? 18 str5 ap2 shots. No wonder you don't have much trouble being charged!

They should really have let you squadren those monsters.

No it was a 3000 pts on each side game with 4 of my m8s and I brought 750 points

Thanks for the heads up, Ascalam. For some reason I already suspected they'd be strongest against, of all armies, slugga-choppa ork builds. Yep, I suffer the occasional squad of 9 from time to time.

So, it's probably the most fragile DE "theme" out there. Pity, as I love the idea of an army of psychotic drug addled she-gladiators. Still, I'm still tempted to borrow some wych squads from fellow DE players for a test run...

Don't get me wrong I love Wyches, but pure wych armies are even more fragile than most DE builds.

Wyches are brutal in CC agaisnt the right target, but they work SOOO much better with support from the Kabals and Covens.

Add a haemonculi to a wych squad (or add one to EACH wych squad as you can take 6...) and they become a whole lot more durable.

i would suggest a nice blend of all 3 themes works very well. kabal take the shooty role, backed up by the speed and hitting CC power of cult, and a few coven choices to buff and improve the rest.

the great thing about the book and its fluff is that all 3 "themes" can and do work really well as a single force, or with other factions and groups. its not like other dexes, where a theme or style really shines in particular.

Undoubtedly a mix is the best, but like I said, this is purely a which one is best contest

Reavers are technically Wyches, part of the Cults - champions of the arena.

Technically, Razorwings actually fall under the purview of the cults, while Venoms, Raiders and Ravagers are Kabalite machines.

From what I can tell (going purely by fluff affiliation) they're split thus:
Kabals: Vect, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus, Archon, The Court of the Archon, Kabalite Trueborn, Kabalite Warriors, Raider, Venom, Ravager.
Wych Cults: Lelith, Succubus, Hekatrix Bloodbrides, Wyches, Beastmasters, Reavers, Razorwing Jetfighter, Voidraven Bomber.
Haemonculi Covens: Urien, Haemonculi, Grotesques, Wracks, Talos Pain Engine, Cronos Parasite Engine.
No affiliation (effectively mercs): Drazhar, Kheradruakh, Baron Sathonyx, Incubi, Mandrakes, Hellions, Scourges.

Going by this, it means the Kabalites win hands down, due to having the venoms/raiders/ravagers.
I'd go with Covens being second, because while the cults have have the razorwings and reavers for speed, both are limited to footslogging, and the wyches are probably going to fall down to most shooting before they close range.

Ovion wrote:Reavers are technically Wyches, part of the Cults - champions of the arena.

Technically, Razorwings actually fall under the purview of the cults, while Venoms, Raiders and Ravagers are Kabalite machines.

From what I can tell (going purely by fluff affiliation) they're split thus:
Kabals: Vect, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus, Archon, The Court of the Archon, Kabalite Trueborn, Kabalite Warriors, Raider, Venom, Ravager.
Wych Cults: Lelith, Succubus, Hekatrix Bloodbrides, Wyches, Beastmasters, Reavers, Razorwing Jetfighter, Voidraven Bomber.
Haemonculi Covens: Urien, Haemonculi, Grotesques, Wracks, Talos Pain Engine, Cronos Parasite Engine.
No affiliation (effectively mercs): Drazhar, Kheradruakh, Baron Sathonyx, Incubi, Mandrakes, Hellions, Scourges.

Going by this, it means the Kabalites win hands down, due to having the venoms/raiders/ravagers.
I'd go with Covens being second, because while the cults have have the razorwings and reavers for speed, both are limited to footslogging, and the wyches are probably going to fall down to most shooting before they close range.

Pretty close, but Sliscus fits in with wyches as well as kabalites, and venoms are wych vehicles

My personal goal is to build an army around thirty Scourges. I don't care about cost-effectiveness or whether they'll win every game, I just want to put thirty Scourges on the table.

The models are jsut too awesome to leave on a shelf.

I have run 3 units of 10, as shoot and scooters.

Drop in, vape a tank, scootch of and find another one

I'm gonna go ahead and say do it, just for the shock value of your opponent