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So basically what the title says; does anyone believe in Aliens and if so why? (and keep it serious I want this to be a topical debate)

Yes. The Universe is bloody massive.

Not convinced on the 'currently visit earth' aliens though,

Im not sure, mainly because Ive personally never seen anything that just made me think "Ok, no clue WTF that is" Ive seen one thing once, that was huge way off in the distance when I was about 16 or 17 while driving. Problem was it was during the Buick Open, and they usually fly a big ol blimp during it. Ive seen blimps though, and I lost track of it while driving, so that one, not sure.

But uh like your avatar, I partly do want it all to be real.


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Medium of Death wrote:Yes. The Universe is bloody massive.

Not convinced on the 'currently visit earth' aliens though,

Well in that regard, yae I definitely believe there is other intelligent life out there, like you said the Universe is just to fething big to not have anything else. Life literally just seems to happen regardless of environment. I was commenting on the Earth visitors

The universe is too large to exclude the possibility, but I'm not going to run around spouting "there are aliens out there" unless we actually find something.

Some interesting answers guys, I believe that there is alien life, but I am open, yet sceptical that they have visited earth. Although the TV programmes like UFO hunters are still an interesting watch.

If ancient aliens didn't exist, how did they build all of that stuff?

I believe that there is intelegent life out there.

I do not believe they have visited Earth.

Mathematically, even if we assume that life of any kind has something like 1:1,000,000,000 chance of appearing on a planet, then even so there would be many billions of planets with some form of life on them
The universe is just too big for there not to be.

Statistically there should be somthing else out there. As to whether or not they've been visiting us, well, I'm sceptical. Its a possibility, but other life is probably really far away or no more developed than we are. It can't be ruled out that they are capable of getting here, but if they can why has there been no attempts at contact?

No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

I'm on the wait and see fence, but the likelihood is there.

The universe is so large that the probability of intelligent life existing approaches 1 and the probability of it existing within traveling distance of us approaches 0

Depends on the question. Are we talking "Are their aliens period?" Well yeah, in a universe where there are billions of galaxies each with billions of stars, that we know of so far, the idea that we're the sole intelligent life in the cosmos is laughable.

If we're talking, "Are little gray men anally violating rednecks and sheep in Arkansas?" Well, no. That's alcohol and inbreeding.

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.

The universe is large enough that "pretty unlikely" still constitutes near certainty. You have to basically hit "impossible" before you can say that and since it already happened once, "impossible" is off the table.

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

A finite place so utterly huge that the unlikeliness is offset by it's size.
Hell, the universe is so large that it's actually incomprehensible to us just how big it is.
Now, if that had been an answer to "Is there other sentient life out there?" then my answer might have been slightly different, but not by much. After all, sentient life takes multiple forms right here on Earth.

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

Exactly which maths state that the area set in the universe is finite? Also which maths state that it's pretty unlikely? Most proofs for this kind of thing tend to state that there is almost certainty in the existence of extraterrestrial lifeforms.

When you said maths, did you mean "my head"?


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

A finite place so utterly huge that the unlikeliness is offset by it's size.
Hell, the universe is so large that it's actually incomprehensible to us just how big it is.
Now, if that had been an answer to "Is there other sentient life out there?" then my answer might have been slightly different, but not by much. After all, sentient life takes multiple forms right here on Earth.

Where are you guys getting this "finite" business from?

ShumaGorath wrote:

I'm on the wait and see fence, but the likelihood is there.

Whilst I'm sure we all chuckle at this, can we please make this the last appearence of this particular meme in this thread, thanks in advance.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Mathematically, even if we assume that life of any kind has something like 1:1,000,000,000 chance of appearing on a planet, then even so there would be many billions of planets with some form of life on them
The universe is just too big for there not to be.

1 in a billion is likely too small.

The usefulness of the Drake Equation is that it gives an idea of the appropriate variables. In order to have life on a planet you have to have a habitable planet. In order to have a habitable planet you have to have the right mix of chemicals. In order to have life on that planet you have to have some other chemical mix.

The uselessness of the Drake Equation is that it's essentially a SWAG. And therefore doesn't actually give any useful information, except for the user's bias.

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter whether there's life out there or not, it will never have an impact on our planet.

reds8n wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

I'm on the wait and see fence, but the likelihood is there.

Whilst I'm sure we all chuckle at this, can we please make this the last appearence of this particular meme in this thread, thanks in advance.

Hey! I had a sentence attached to it!

Well, it comes down to the Fermi Paradox, which boiled down comes to this:

The number of planets is so large that life should be common, and if it is common then we should have proof of its existence. Since we have no proof of existence, life in the universe is so incredibly rare or short lived that we (humans) will never meet it.

Shrike325 wrote:Well, it comes down to the Fermi Paradox, which boiled down comes to this:

The number of planets is so large that life should be common, and if it is common then we should have proof of its existence. Since we have no proof of existence, life in the universe is so incredibly rare or short lived that we (humans) will never meet it.

There are so many logical holes in the fermi paradox that it belongs in a comic book text bubble at this point.

biccat wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Mathematically, even if we assume that life of any kind has something like 1:1,000,000,000 chance of appearing on a planet, then even so there would be many billions of planets with some form of life on them
The universe is just too big for there not to be.

1 in a billion is likely too small.

The usefulness of the Drake Equation is that it gives an idea of the appropriate variables. In order to have life on a planet you have to have a habitable planet. In order to have a habitable planet you have to have the right mix of chemicals. In order to have life on that planet you have to have some other chemical mix.

The uselessness of the Drake Equation is that it's essentially a SWAG. And therefore doesn't actually give any useful information, except for the user's bias.

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter whether there's life out there or not, it will never have an impact on our planet.

Oh, it probably is too small, hence the assumption.
Still, as to the last part of your response, yeah, I doubt we'll live long enough as a species to ever prove it.

I'd like to imagine that there's at least one intelligent alien race somewhere in the universe...

I'd also like to imagine that we could beat the gak out of them in an epic space war

ShumaGorath wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

Exactly which maths state that the area set in the universe is finite? Also which maths state that it's pretty unlikely? Most proofs for this kind of thing tend to state that there is almost certainty in the existence of extraterrestrial lifeforms.

When you said maths, did you mean "my head"?


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.
You may as well say "well there's all these grains of sand, one of them must be a completely accurate map of Chipping Norton".

A finite place so utterly huge that the unlikeliness is offset by it's size.
Hell, the universe is so large that it's actually incomprehensible to us just how big it is.
Now, if that had been an answer to "Is there other sentient life out there?" then my answer might have been slightly different, but not by much. After all, sentient life takes multiple forms right here on Earth.

Where are you guys getting this "finite" business from?

Hm, actually looking it up, there seems to be no actual indicative size for the universe; indeed, it might actually be infinite.
If so, I think my mind just blew up, because that would be amazing.

I'd like to imagine that there's at least one intelligent alien race somewhere in the universe...

I'd also like to imagine that we could beat the gak out of them in an epic space war

Vs thread incoming.....

I'd lash Mulders I want to believe poster in here but I've used it a few times already.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.

The universe is large enough that "pretty unlikely" still constitutes near certainty. You have to basically hit "impossible" before you can say that and since it already happened once, "impossible" is off the table.

No...there is an actual number of planets in the universe.
If there is life in the universe then it would have to be related to us, the chance of complicated biological information evolving twice, independently, is negligible.


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Hm, actually looking it up, there seems to be no actual indicative size for the universe; indeed, it might actually be infinite.
If so, I think my mind just blew up, because that would be amazing.

The universe can't be infinite or it would cause an infinite gravitational pull on everything else and nothing would exist.

Joey wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.

The universe is large enough that "pretty unlikely" still constitutes near certainty. You have to basically hit "impossible" before you can say that and since it already happened once, "impossible" is off the table.

No...there is an actual number of planets in the universe.
If there is life in the universe then it would have to be related to us, the chance of complicated biological information evolving twice, independently, is negligible.


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Hm, actually looking it up, there seems to be no actual indicative size for the universe; indeed, it might actually be infinite.
If so, I think my mind just blew up, because that would be amazing.

The universe can't be infinite or it would cause an infinite gravitational pull on everything else and nothing would exist.

Playing devil's advocate here:
Lets say that the chance of life occurring in the universe is 1 / (3.5 x 10^22) per star. One, 35 sextillionth. 0.00000000000000000000000028%. Current estimates are that there are 70 sextillion observable stars, and so with the earlier assumption, there should be at least 2 groups of life out there, statistically.

The simple fact is we have not been looking for long enough. SETI has been looking at single stars one at a time for forty years. That's not really a long time. Its like dropping a needle out a plane in the hope it lands on a piece of thread you set up 30,000 feet below.

The only proof against there being any intelligent life out there is in my opinion not fermi paradox but something way nerdier and way more specific.

'Von Neumodian Probes' or as Iain M Banks called them 'Hegemonising Swarms'. Essentially a self replicating machine that moves (the speed is largely irrelevant could be walking pace for all it matters) from resource to resource making copies of itself. IIRC one would have stripped the galaxy bare in about 100,000 years.

Of course you could argue that carbon based life is one such 'hegemonising swarm' that landed on earth. As some of the more hare brained explanations of life say it stowed away on an asteroid.

Shrike325 wrote:

Joey wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
The universe is a finite place and the maths says it's pretty unlikely.

The universe is large enough that "pretty unlikely" still constitutes near certainty. You have to basically hit "impossible" before you can say that and since it already happened once, "impossible" is off the table.

No...there is an actual number of planets in the universe.
If there is life in the universe then it would have to be related to us, the chance of complicated biological information evolving twice, independently, is negligible.


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Hm, actually looking it up, there seems to be no actual indicative size for the universe; indeed, it might actually be infinite.
If so, I think my mind just blew up, because that would be amazing.

The universe can't be infinite or it would cause an infinite gravitational pull on everything else and nothing would exist.

Playing devil's advocate here:
Lets say that the chance of life occurring in the universe is 1 / (3.5 x 10^22) per star. One, 35 sextillionth. 0.00000000000000000000000028%. Current estimates are that there are 70 sextillion observable stars, and so with the earlier assumption, there should be at least 2 groups of life out there, statistically.

Except neither you nor anyone actually has a clue how life itself came to being. Atm all we can do is stick an electric current through amino acids and note that nothing whatsoever happens.
In leui of any other evidence we must accept the simplest assertion, that life/DNA occurred entirely at random. And if you accept that, the chances of it happening again are TINY.
Also note aliens!=aliens. It's possible life on earth came from space, or we inadvertently colonised another bit of rock. But that would just be a few bacteria.

I'm not sure that is what the current idea is, Joey, but given that we lack experimental proof about much to do with the scale of the universe, I think that you could do with toning down the certainty there a little.

Given that we can observe an estimated (one estimate I saw, anyway) 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars (that's seventy sextillion), the chances of life (just life- chemical formations which pass information on and can evolve) existing I think is pretty damn high. The chances of intelligent life is a lot lower, but I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that it might exist. It is not as close to a certainty as the presence of some simple replicating DNA/other replicating chemical loops, or say, alien bacteria. Aliens visiting Earth I think is really unlikely, especially in the "sneaking around and anal probing people" kind of way. It's just too far, too much expenditure of energy and effort, to come all that way and not do anything big and worthwhile.

No...there is an actual number of planets in the universe.
If there is life in the universe then it would have to be related to us, the chance of complicated biological information evolving twice, independently, is negligible.

Where are you getting this gak? Do you have any sort of formal astrophysics education?

The chances of intelligent life is a lot lower, but I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that it might exist.

Given that it exists in the only observed location of biological life it doesn't seem incredibly unreasonable. The time scales throw it off a lot though.