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Just wondering, a friend of mine said that they were because the blood ravens chapter was essentially created from the games

AFAIK the Blood Ravens didn't exist until the Dawn of War games. Also, canon in this context is spelled with only one N.

According to THQ, no.

I don't think so...I highly doubt 1 space marine could take down an ork Kruiser...

The Blood Ravens, so far as I know, existed before the Dawn of War games. However like many Astartes Chapters there was little to nothing about them & their backstory - this gave THQ MASSIVE amounts of room to manouver the Chapter in the direction they wanted to tell the story they wanted - it'd be a lot harder with a properly established Chapter such as Ultramarines or Imperial Fists.

Then they just grew from there.

As for THQ games being canon? They specifically said that Space Marine was not canon. After all that would mean Captain Titus would have had to replace Captain Sicarius & I don't think GW would allow such a prominant figure in Ultramarines lore to be given the boot for an unknown. Once again it gave them room to manouver with the storyline & game.

LazzurusMan wrote:I don't think so...I highly doubt 1 space marine could take down an ork Kruiser...

As apposed to a single Grey Knight eating the heart of a deamon? Or whatever he-who-must-not-be-named did in the fluff. The fluff has never been "grounded".

Sparks_Havelock wrote:The Blood Ravens, so far as I know, existed before the Dawn of War games. However like many Astartes Chapters there was little to nothing about them & their backstory - this gave THQ MASSIVE amounts of room to manouver the Chapter in the direction they wanted to tell the story they wanted.

This, the chapter existed as a colour scheme in Codex:SM and maybe mentioned once or twice but that's about it. Their fluff, such as it is, was made up by THQ for the DOW games (haven't played Space Marine).

I think they set it up to avoid the question. THQ/Relic have said that the Blood Ravens are more or less a their chapter. This is to avoid as was stated earlier problems with other chapters background stories. Thats why the Blood Ravens do not have a primarch (or as in the games they do not know who it is).

As for Space Marine I'm not sure. I think what happened was is was going to be the Blood Ravens starring but GW wanted to use their "flagship" chapter since it would bring in a new auidence.

Doh ho ho ho! sorcerer of khorne as lord of a space marine chapter, that's what we get if we accept THQ games as canon.

The space marine game is damn close to canon, everything else... is highly questionable. I'd send in the inquisition first.

LazzurusMan wrote:I don't think so...I highly doubt 1 space marine could take down an ork Kruiser...

First it's an ORK cruiser not so hard to bring a big pieces of junk down and second it's a captain who brought it down not a regular SM

I heard they were canon, not sure though
I don't see why they shouldn't be, (except SM) What could've happened in the game that could hurt fluff more than Mr. Ward?

No really, THQ have stated that the game takes place in a parallel universe. It's not canonical.

Time for the usual blog quote I keep handy for threads like these ...

Gav Thorpe wrote:Often folks ask if Black Library books are ‘canon’. With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong.

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/

So in short, there is no such thing as a "canon" in 40k, just as there is no such thing as a "non-canon". Everyone is quite simply free to make up what they want, including or excluding parts from other sources as they see fit. This includes THQ. They would not even be forced to pull that funny "parallel universe" crap excuse, but I imagine it's easier to sell to the fans than a straight "no, we're not canon". It's the same kind of weaseling-out you often see from Black Library novel authors when they're asked this sort of stuff. Nobody wants to admit that the writing in his product is basically licensed fan-fiction, as if they fear it would go down in value if they'd do so. That being said, and considering how solidly ingrained the notion of some "canon" is within the fandom (often leading to nerdrage on various community platforms), it might actually be true.

Lynata wrote:Time for the usual blog quote I keep handy for threads like these ...

Gav Thorpe wrote:Often folks ask if Black Library books are ‘canon’. With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong.

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/

So in short, there is no such thing as a "canon" in 40k, just as there is no such thing as a "non-canon". Everyone is quite simply free to make up what they want, including or excluding parts from other sources as they see fit. This includes THQ. They would not even be forced to pull that funny "parallel universe" crap excuse, but I imagine it's easier to sell to the fans than a straight "no, we're not canon". It's the same kind of weaseling-out you often see from Black Library novel authors when they're asked this sort of stuff. Nobody wants to admit that the writing in his product is basically licensed fan-fiction, as if they fear it would go down in value if they'd do so. That being said, and considering how solidly ingrained the notion of some "canon" is within the fandom (often leading to nerdrage on various community platforms), it might actually be true.

Twenty points for this man!

For my part, I don't have a problem with anything THQ have done really, and am quite happy for the DoW series to be taking place out there in the universe. It's just another side-story.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/387647.page

Conclusion: everything is cannon except C.S.Goto.
And of course what player want's to believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

English Assassin wrote:No really, THQ have stated that the game takes place in a parallel universe. It's not canonical.

That is because they lack imagination and couldn't put Titus in charge of another company of Ultramarines and because they can't say that Cato Sicarius take a free weekend and was replaced by Titus for that weekend.
There are also more cannon rapes:
-Graia was nomed by Tyranids before Battle for Macragge.
-Invicuts was destroyed in 13'th Black Crusade.

That would be all fine if Angelos Blood Ravens from the ending of DoW II: Retribution ( the Space Marine one ) didn't appear. And we know that Aurelian Crusade was in 999.M41.
They were REALLY original in that game

Lynata wrote:Time for the usual blog quote I keep handy for threads like these ...

Gav Thorpe wrote:Often folks ask if Black Library books are ‘canon’. With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong.

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/

So in short, there is no such thing as a "canon" in 40k, just as there is no such thing as a "non-canon". Everyone is quite simply free to make up what they want, including or excluding parts from other sources as they see fit. This includes THQ. They would not even be forced to pull that funny "parallel universe" crap excuse, but I imagine it's easier to sell to the fans than a straight "no, we're not canon". It's the same kind of weaseling-out you often see from Black Library novel authors when they're asked this sort of stuff. Nobody wants to admit that the writing in his product is basically licensed fan-fiction, as if they fear it would go down in value if they'd do so. That being said, and considering how solidly ingrained the notion of some "canon" is within the fandom (often leading to nerdrage on various community platforms), it might actually be true.

You post that quote alot. However, i do like, its all canon, and none of its canon.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:You post that quote alot.

Why yes, people still believe in 40k actually having a canon a lot.

I did, too, until reading comments such as the one I quoted. Expectations (from how other franchises handle their IP) and community hearsay (beliefs being advertised as facts) are to blame.

Being a fluff nut, I would wish for more consistency as well, but I came to see it's much too late for that. There is way too much conflicting information by now, so GW would have to do a tabula rasa before being able to tackle this. And they don't even seem to perceive this as a problem but rather as a feature, at least if Andy's comment is to be taken as exemplary for the studio (even though he no longer works for it anymore, he used to do so for many years):

Andy Hoare wrote:It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth.

I understand that Tolkien took decades developing his setting before publishing the stories set within it, and still made mistooks. 40k is an ever-evolving setting designed first and foremost to house a really cool game, and as such things don’t always mesh or translate, or they (actually very occasionally) get changed outright. I know which I’d rather be reading and writing

http://www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/

What's wrong with GS Goto?
Who the hell IS GS Goto?

CS Multilaser Goto used to be a BL author who had quite a different view on the 40k background to what was generally accepted. He also invented the Land Razor and backflipping Terminators.

They are not cannons, they're games.

Duh.

Oh, you meant canon. In that case sure, they're as canon as any BL book.

C. S. Goto.

Multi lasers everywhere. Backflipping termanators. Its horrible. So horrible i have his book sealed in a box, sealed inside another box, inside yet another sealed box, put in a hole, filled with concreat and marked as a hazmat zone.

Don't forget Land Raiders turning into Razorbacks and back
And Terminator Sergent forgetting that he have brought Cyclone Missle Launcher with him...

He also made it canon for an Eldar Falcon to be defeated by a child with a stick.

Melissia wrote:They are not cannons, they're games.

Duh.

Oh, you meant canon. In that case sure, they're as canon as any BL book.

The Canon Cannon exists though and for good reason.

Brother Coa wrote:Don't forget Land Raiders turning into Razorbacks and back

I'm trying to get the term Land Razor to stick for that.

For what it's worth, Goto is by far not the only author with a "different" interpretation - I guess people merely give him more attention because he was writing weird stuff about Marines. Few people complain about Rob Sanders' Genestealers, or Sandy Mitchell's Commissars and Sororitas, or Dan Abnett's Servitor-Navigators (or how his Marines get bigger and bigger in size, which in the end only panders to the fanbase).

I'm always so happy when people bring in that quote about canon.

As for the 'takes place in a parallel universe' bit, from what I have read that was something thrown out by an ad exec talking independently, not understanding 40k 'canon' policy, and trying to cover himself. But since then his statements have been taken as...canon. The THQ games are as canon, and not canon, as everything else, as has been mentioned.

Lynata wrote:Sandy Mitchell's Commissars and Sororitas

I certainly don't hesitate to point out that Mitchel couldn't write a likable religious character to save his life.

Brother Coa wrote:Don't forget Land Raiders turning into Razorbacks and back
And Terminator Sergent forgetting that he have brought Cyclone Missle Launcher with him...

So is it like this?



Would make an awesome ability for Space Marines to turn into an actual Rhino or Razorback to transport his buddies.

Alexzandvar wrote:Would make an awesome ability for Space Marines to turn into an actual Rhino or Razorback to transport his buddies.

Open up, Brother Ianus, your Sergeant wishes to enter you!

LazzurusMan wrote:I don't think so...I highly doubt 1 space marine could take down an ork Kruiser...

You shoulda brought more skinny boyz if you wanted to bring down me Krooser

The DoW games each have a canon ending to them, usualy discovered when THQ releases the next installment of the game.
The Blood Ravens are a canon chapter as is the canonical arc of their saga through the games in question.
As has been discussed over and over and over and for good measure over again.

There really is a pretty official baseline canon, like a spinal cord of the universe. Its expansive, there are alot of agendas and many things can happen in such a grimdark (lol) setting.I can't see how hard it would be to stick to it, although BL seems to deviate pretty easily, somehow...