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Hi all,
very nervously taking the first steps back into painting after a very long break...Dakka has been a wealth of wonderful resources to help up my game, OSL, wet-blends all that good stuff...I was quite skilled as a boy (nowhere near golden demon standards but did have a couple of models on display in my FLGS)

I was never a huge fan of washes ...often found them clumsy...I used to undercoat black (always), then paint a dark rich base colour, leave that in the shadowed areas (bits/gaps where a wash would normally settle) and then apply layers of increasingly lighter shades on the rised areas till I reached the look/colour I was after and then finally apply a sharp highlight to that...

It worked well back in the day but I would like to have better results now so my question to all the really skilled painters on here is would this method still be viable or will I hit a wall if I don't use washes?

Cheers for reading and apologies if this is an obvious question...as stated haven't paint in a decade!

R

The washes are the equivalent to watering down the old inks. They're probably not mandatory, but certainly help if you use them the right way which depends on what you're trying to do at the time with them.

The style I'll be aiming for (if there even is such a thing) is that crisp clean look with hints of battle damage and wear but not too ott...great flesh tones are a must...there will be minimal fancy free-hand stuff, with dark or bold colours not that muted pallet look I often see in the gallery...this pic has the 'look' I'd like to aim for (not saying I'll get it though Haha the artist is very skilled but its good to aim high)

I'd say it's not mandatory, It's your painting style I suppose. I use washes myself as building up the layers of blending would take too long for 100+ guardsman. So that's your apinting style, I'd stick with it.

I think washes arent something you need to use, but alot of people probably use them because it saves alot of time when you have quite a few models to paint.

Otherwise building up highlights is also a good technique, just a bit more time consuming and will give you a different result to wahsing.

I generally use washes and then go and highlight, makes a smother transition between shades.

Thanks Not U, Ninja & Xeriapt, no its not en-mass maybe 20/30 models at most but want everyone to be "army hero" standard quality, if it takes two months then so be it...so one would use subtle washes to slowly build up blended shadowy areas rather then paint them in first and then blend up the lighter areas from them?

I find that washes are great for highly detailed things like faces (heads in general really), pelts, capes etc. Really anything that doesnt have a smooth surface. It just helps to show off small details and give it a little bit of an texture feel to the models. I only use it in small quantities however.

I usually add a layer of whatever wash im using before I highlight then a second lighter one after the highlights. Some parts may need a little extra work to make the highlighting really shine but I find that it works quite well.

A good example of how I use washes to blend in highlights would be this:



If you click the image and zoom in, look at the dress, you should be able to see different layers of highlights on the pink areas, after each highlight I used a wash of purple, helped to blend it in better and smooth it out.

Xeriapt wrote:I generally use washes and then go and highlight, makes a smother transition between shades.

Xeriapt your DE force are very nice, I would also be very happy to achieve these kind of results. Did you use washes on their faces and their hair? And would they be colours you mixed up yourself?

Yeah the hair was enchanted blue with asurmen blue wash then an iceblue highlight folowed by a white highlight.

I did do a wash for the face but I mostly painted over it so you cant really tell, it was sort of a practice for doing a DE skin tone lol.

Pretty much all the colours I use are just the standard ones in GW pots unless I want better detail, then I'll mix colours in between for smother transitions between shades, eg painting enchanted blue, then mixing enchated and ice, then using ice, then white.

Just depends on the detail level, the thing with mixing your own shades is unless you do a batch and put it in a container it can be hard to maintain consistency over several models.

Xeriapt wrote:Just depends on the detail level, the thing with mixing your own shades is unless you do a batch and put it in a container it can be hard to maintain consistency over several models.

Yeah i've had this before, the pain of having to colour match to a dried stain on an old plate...i've heard others mention a 'wet pallet' set up to prolong the life of mixed colours, will investigate...thank you to everyone for your input...I guess its all really just trail and error kinda stuff...I'll be sure to practice on some grunts first...

If anyone would like to see the results, they'll be posted in my WIP blog (link in my sig. at the bottom) in the coming months.

Cheers for reading and the comments!

R

Wet pallet isn't a way to prolong the life of a mixed colour though.

Oh really Not U? I must have misunderstood...what the wet paper towel in a bowl with a grease-proof paper top dealio?

I used A LOT of washes on these two, but I'm quite happy with how they turned out!:



edit
ok mate, have had a look at your fantastic conversions, I really like them!

But i think you should use washes, your models are the kind that look yery good with washes, being dirty (i guess) and well textured.

Merlin thanks, great Orks...you used alot on those? Would that be all over? Or just for the loin-cloths/clothing areas?

R

Ghostflame wrote:Oh really Not U? I must have misunderstood...what the wet paper towel in a bowl with a grease-proof paper top dealio?

I don't use them, just that it would only be temporary combine to mass mixing colours to be used and storing them in empty pots for use later. They do prolong the paint's life on the palette though.

Ghostflame wrote:Merlin thanks, great Orks...you used alot on those? Would that be all over? Or just for the loin-cloths/clothing areas?

R

tankbusta: well, the rusty gun is a layer of boltgun metal with a badab black wash, blood red/ bestial brwon wash, devlan mud wash....

the gold got devlan mud

the skin got washed and layerd

the clothes are brown with dark brown washes

normal nob:
al clothes and armor devlyn mud

weapon got badab black and sepia

skin got devlan mud and thrakka green (and layering)

yeah, i wash everything, and i add more depth by layering....

edit

oh, and have a look at my blog, there's more. (also washed, most of it)

Ghostflame wrote:Oh really Not U? I must have misunderstood...what the wet paper towel in a bowl with a grease-proof paper top dealio?

A wet pallet keeps paint from drying as quickly on the Pallet. I suspose you could use it to maintain a color for a day, some people have reported longer, but it's mainly to prevent loss of paint over a session of painting, not over a total job run. If you're coming back after dinner, a wet pallet would keep the paint fresher, if you're coming back next weekend you'll want a mixed pot.

My buddy had an awesome tip: get one of those cheep Paint by number books with the little plastic snap cups, clean it out, and use it. You get 4-10 pots all linked together, so you can put your mixes in use order, and they snap closed to keep it fresh.

If you're feeling flush I've also seen these for sale at the local Hobby Lobby.

Bounty wrote: A wet pallet keeps paint from drying as quickly on the Pallet.

Yeah this is the use I ment, maybe wasn't clear earlier...The kiddies paint book pots are a great idea Bounty...I think my lil boy will be getting a new paint by numbers book tomorrow...only to have it mysteriously disappear a few days later Mwahahahaha (Evil Daddy!)

Ghostflame wrote:

Bounty wrote: A wet pallet keeps paint from drying as quickly on the Pallet.

Yeah this is the use I ment, maybe wasn't clear earlier...The kiddies paint book pots are a great idea Bounty...I think my lil boy will be getting a new paint by numbers book tomorrow...only to have it mysteriously disappear a few days later Mwahahahaha (Evil Daddy!)

Once he's painted it, it's only responsible (and wise) to take the paints away. Otherwise you may come home from work to find he's 'helped' with your new Hammerhead Tank...

Exactly haha

I happen to swear by extreme highlights and washes though I still have a long ways to go before I am up to par with some on this forum

Not really needed, but it's a good way to cover recessed areas that you want to have more shadow (or you accidentally painted with a bright color).It's also a good way of toning down a color (say, you want a more muted red: wash it with devlan mud or gryphonne sepia). Also note that using washes doesn't mean you'll save time automatically--I use washes but still spend an hour painting faces.

For example:


That took me 1.5 hours to paint the face. Around 2 three hours on the cloak. Thing is, after I washed it I would re-highlight stuff and wet blend stuff and... well you get the idea.

heartserenade wrote:Not really needed, but it's a good way to cover recessed areas that you want to have more shadow (or you accidentally painted with a bright color).It's also a good way of toning down a color (say, you want a more muted red: wash it with devlan mud or gryphonne sepia). Also note that using washes doesn't mean you'll save time automatically--I use washes but still spend an hour painting faces.

For example:

Spoiler:

That took me 1.5 hours to paint the face. Around 2 three hours on the cloak. Thing is, after I washed it I would re-highlight stuff and wet blend stuff and... well you get the idea.

second everything he said

IMO washes are needed to fill in the small spaces the primer or undercoat did not hit. The added shading effect is a bonus. BUT do not depend on the washes to give you the effect you look for as after using the wash, you will still have to go back to the brush to touch up the highlights and make them "pop". I've done a few models and stopped after using the wash and they came out to be dull and flat. The highlighs and extreme highlights bring the model back to life.

Yeah quite a mix of opinion here which is interesting...I was kinda expecting everyone to say "Use washes you idiot!" and that be the end of that...I had always assumed they were either a way for a less skilled painter to bring out the details of a model or for the IG or Tyranid player who just didn't have the time to make everyone in his army a masterpiece...

Now I see its uses can be as varied as a painter wants.

Ghostflame wrote:Yeah quite a mix of opinion here which is interesting...I was kinda expecting everyone to say "Use washes you idiot!" and that be the end of that...I had always assumed they were either a way for a less skilled painter to bring out the details of a model or for the IG or Tyranid player who just didn't have the time to make everyone in his army a masterpiece...

Now I see its uses can be as varied as a painter wants.

well. it really depends on the model imho; orks and the like should be washed neraly copletely (at least i do), but its very unfutting on space marines and eldar.

I'm trying to get away from washes mainly to increase my paitning skill, but I consider them a valid option ... especially when you may care less about the painting aspect in general.

EDIT: No offense intended

Talarn Blackshard wrote:I'm trying to get away from washes mainly to increase my paitning skill, but I consider them a valid option ... especially when you may care less about the painting aspect in general.

i care alot and still use them..... a lot......

My pet hate...(and not to offend anyone here, theres nothing actually wrong with this if it works for you, just my honest opinion that it slightly bothers me)...is that: base coat, dark wash, dry brush a highlight or two, done look...it makes me sad