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I am testing Grey Knights so I can have a bit of a heads up when I play Metallicarule this Friday. I don't want to go in totally blind and I can adjust my tactics a bit. It will be a interesting game, G.K vs Eldar. Though this game I tried Grey Knights against Dark Eldar.

Grey Knights "Purifier Order" - 2,000 points

HQ

Castellan Crowe

Elite

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons & psybolt ammo
Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons & psybolt ammo


Troops

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons & 3 x nemesis daemon hammers


Heavy Support

Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons & psybolt ammo
Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons & psybolt ammo

Total: 1,980

Dark Eldar "Kabal of a Thousand Cuts" - 2,000 points


HQ

Baron Sathonyx

Elite

4 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 4 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
4 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 4 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
3 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 3 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Troops

5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Fast Attack

Beastmasters - 3 x beastmasters, 5 x khymerae & 4 x razorwing flocks
Beastmasters - 3 x beastmasters, 5 x khymerae & 4 x razorwing flocks

Heavy Support

Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield

Game: Annihilation + Pitched Battle

Deployment

Dark Eldar win the roll off and go first. All skimmers deploy more or less in the centre with the Ravagers at the front to give cover. On the left flank deploy both Beastmaster squads using ruins on the board to give cover, Baron deploys with the Beastmasters on the far left.

Grey Knights deploy with the Rhinos on the left flank in two rows of three. Crowe deploys in a ruin out of LOS by himself in the centre while the Dreadnoughts have a mother's meetings on the right opposite the skimmer fleet.

Turn 1

Grey Knights attempt to seize the initiative, they fail.

D.E move all Venoms flat out, though just over 12" so they are not so close to psycannons and can use the centre ruin for some cover. Ravagers pivot and move slightly ready to blast the Dreadnoughts. Beastmasters without Baron move and run and end up in the centre tower ruin while Baron's Beastmasters move down the left flank using a ruin for cover.

Shooting; Ravagers blast the Venerable Dreadnoughts and score weapon destroyed and stunned on one and score weapon destroyed and immobilised on another. That's it!

Grey Knights first turn; Venerable Dreadnought does psychic test for fortitude and it's fine. The front Rhinos move 6" over towards the Venom fleet while the other three gamble that the Beastmasters will be bogged down in terrain and maybe out of assault range.

Shooting; one Purifier unit out of the static Rhinos fires at the Beastmasters in the centre, though it out of range, the other two Purifiers from the static Rhinos open up with psycannons and two Beastmasters and a Khymerae are dead - Beastmasters pass morale test. More psycannons blast out and two Trueborn Venoms blow up - both squads pass pinning and one has to take morale, though it's fine. Storm bolters from the Rhinos attempt to finish off the last Trueborn, but fail. Autocannons from the Dreadnoughts blast the Ravagers, one Ravager gets cover thanks to a large shrine ruin and passes all cover saves while the shots which do get through on the other Ravagers are saved by flickerfields.

Kill points - Grey Knights: 2 Dark Eldar: 0

Turn 2

Baron splits from the Beastmasters and flies over the ruin to assault, though rolls a 1 to assault. The Beastmaster unit Baron was with moves and runs 6 down towards the Grey Knights tank line while the other Beastmasters move out through terrain ready to assault. Venoms move down ready to torrent the closest Rhino and Dreadnoughts with blasters.

Shooting; Trueborn torrent the closest Rhino and score weapon destroyed and stunned. Ravagers and blasters fire at the Dreadnoughts, one Dreadnought explodes while one Venerable is shaken and the other is stunned.

Assault; the Beastmasters in the centre multi assault the three Rhinos which moved, the Rhino which has already taken damage is immobilised while the other two get away scott free. The other Beastmaster unit is just in range of one Rhino which hasn't moved and it is wrecked - Purifiers pass pinning test. Baron is about 2" from assault

Grey Knights second turn; both Venerables and the stunned Rhino pass fortitude tests. Purifiers from the wrecked Rhino and one of the unmoved Rhinos move to assault the closest Beastmasters while another unit of Purifiers bails out their Rhino and goes towards Baron. One more unit of Purifiers bail out of their Rhino to assault the other Beastmasters, Crowe comes out the ruin to support them.

Shooting; psycannons rip into Baron and he fails his shadowfield and is instagib. Both Beastmasters get shot up but psycannons and storm bolters. Psycannons blast into the last operational Trueborn Venom and it explodes, the surviving Trueborn gets blown away by storm bolters from Rhinos - squad fails morale and falls back, the single Trueborn from the previous turn is shredded by psycannons after surviving plenty of storm bolter shots. Psycannons open fire and manage to explode one of the Ravagers while the others survive the gun fire.

Assault; two Purifier units charge the Beastmasters on the left flank, both cast cleansing flame and after only four Razorwing Flocks remain and a single Khymerae - one Grey Knight falls, though 18 nemesis daemon hammer attacks see that the Beastmasters are wiped out. Crowe and Purifiers charge the other Beastmaster units, both cast cleansing flame and only four Razorwing Flocks remain - Flocks score no wounds and Crowe adapts the shield blade stance just in case, the hammer attacks smash them to pieces.

Kill points - Grey Knights: 8 Dark Eldar: 2

Turn 3

Dark Eldar swing their Venoms across the flank to get the splinter cannons into range. Trueborn continue to fall back as they are under half strength.

Shooting; the surviving Trueborn unit blast Crowe (who failed to consolidate from LOS) and he is instagibbed. Blasters fire at a Venerable Dreadnought, a few damage results are re-rolled which turn into shaken/stunned but ultimately it is wrecked. Splinter cannons open fire on the Purifier unit which assisted Crowe in combat and wipe them out, another unit gets blasted by splinter cannons and only a single Grey Knight is left - the survivor passes morale. Another squad gets blasted as the single survivor is out of LOS, two die from this unit and they too pass morale.

Grey Knights third turn; all Purifiers get back into their tanks so they don't get poisoned to death. A Dreadnoughts casts fortitude power and it is no longer stunned.

Shooting; psycannons fire and wreck a Warrior Venom and explode another - both squads pass pinning, though one Trueborn from the remaining squad dies to shrapnel - survivor passes morale. Storm bolters fire into the surviving Trueborn, though passes all cover saves. Dreadnoughts fire and take out another Ravager and rip off a lance from the other.

Kill points - Grey Knights: 12 Dark Eldar: 5

Turn 4

Dark Eldar remain in position using their down skimmers as cover, no point moving them up so they don't get cover saves or could get assaulted.

Shooting; blasters fire and take out the Rhino which is immobilised and weapon destroyed, Purifiers pass pinning though are then gunned down with combo of splinter cannons, rifles and blaster. Blasters fire into the Dreadnoughts and shake/stun the two remaining Dreadnoughts.

Grey Knights turn; both Dreadnoughts pass fortitude tests, the operational Dreadnought moves out so it can assault a unit. Remaining Rhinos hold position.

Shooting; Dreadnought fires into a Warrior unit and kills four - survivor pass morale though Dreadnought will be out of assault range. Psycannons fire and knock out two Venoms while Rhino storm bolters finally finish off the single Trueborn.

Kill points - Grey Knights: 15 Dark Eldar: 7

Turn 5

Remaining Warriors hold position again so use the wrecked Venoms and craters for cover.

Shooting; both remaining Dreadnoughts are taken out by blasters, that's it for D.E.

Grey Knights go balls to the wall this turn, the unit of three Purifiers bail out and move towards the closest Warriors ready to smack them with some hammers, another Rhino attempts to move through terrain, though it's immobilised. Another Rhino tries the same trick, it moves 12" through terrain and over the Rhino wreck and the Purifiers bail out ready to issue some good hearted justice.

Shooting; Purifiers which just bailed out their moved Rhino fire into a Warrior squad with psycannons and storm bolters and wipe them all out. I think that's about it.

Assault; Purifiers charge and cast cleansing flame, though it does zero wounds this turn, Dark Eldar kill the psycannon Grey Knight but the hammers smash them in return, squad fails morale and falls back with the G.K in hot pursuit.

Kill points - Grey Knights: 17 Dark Eldar 9

Summary

As to be expected, Grey Knights are Dark Eldar's rock to scissors, just like Guard are. At first I thought it was going well as the Ravagers passed quite a few flickerfield saves, but alas it was not to be. What D.E use to get the win is surpressed tanks and it is very hard to surpress G.K vehicles, damn fortitude. Ultimately it went the way I thought it would and that was a loss for Dark Eldar. Some things could have gone better for them like Baron getting into assault, blasters causing better damage than shaken/stunned and splinter cannons actually hit something, several times they missed 7 shots!

G.K played as well as I remember them last year. I still think the Purifier build it pretty awesome. When I tried this list last time I used Interceptors and halberds, I cannot say I missed that unit or wargear. I also did some maths and the hammers end up killing round about the same in combat, benefit for hammers is against walkers.

The point however was to see if G.K was over powered. I am sticking to my guns and saying no. They are a pretty cheesy army (too good) and have some things a little too sweet which get a few raised eyebrows. They can be dealt with though, you just need the right tools for the job and some good dice rolls

3x hammer? Really? Isn't that over kill? Also your missing out on the I6.

MC hammer is probably all you need.

Nice report as always.

GK are really NOT over powered because I had a proxy game, purifers vs SOB, both using the typical tournament lists.

SOB lost because GK had 1 SOB objective and sisters contested theirs.

The game ended turn 5 and there was 1 psydread and 2 squad of 3 purifers and 1 5x BSS and an immolator with no gun left.

It was brutal.

Yes, really. Overkill, G.K don't know the word of it . FYI I did a quick math-hammer of unit of 5 Purifiers with the setup I am using and with two halberds and a single hammer against 30 Orks, the outcome was always the same, Purifiers lost. I did the same test with Genestealers and in both situations the Genestealers lost. I did the same with Tactical Marines and in both situations the Tacticals lost. The only downside is striking last, but I can deal damage to tanks easier etc.

And I agree, G.K aren't O.P. There was a massive kick off on my blog about it, which I said they wasn't O.P. Take a look: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2012/02/discussion-grey-knights-are-most-over.html

Nice report. I've always wanted to play against a DE venom-spam army such as yours. Too bad no one here plays such a build. But it's good to get data on a venom-spam army against a GK army that's similar to mine.

I don't recommend running 3 hammers in a MSU unit. You're at a disadvantage against regular MEQ's, especially the more assaulty ones such as SW and BA.

BTW, Purifiers are fearless.

Marthike wrote:MC Hammer is probably all you need.

QFT. You need extra halberds so the enemy can't touch this. Otherwise you're striking last and you'll have to pray that you're too legit to quit.

One thing won this game for the GKs....Fortitude and thats it. My DE can beat longfang/laserback spam wolves and mechdar, but throw 4 or more pysfilemen dreads out there and I am toast unless the skys part and the luck of the gods falls upon my dice.....Just 2 damn psychic powers shut down two of my favorite armies, fortitude for my DE, and warp quake for my now shelved demons...

sorry didnt mean to rant, but damn I hate psyflemen dreads.....

DE's defense against GK is Night Shields...it sounds stupid, but try it..it works. It cuts the firepower of GK down significantly, unless they are willing to advance on you. While it won't always stop the Rifleman's, it definitely limits the Psycannons. In a way, it almost forces the GKs to advance to get more shots in...but plays into the DE players hands as it makes getting his assault units into combat quicker. I think with Nightshields added to at least your venoms, I think perhaps your army would fair better vs. GK. Give it a try.

I run nightshields on every vehicle, makes games against GK lists without psy-dreads an almost insta-win

Night shields are only good vs GK, and maybe necrons, other than that, its worthless.

Marthike wrote:Night shields are only good vs GK, and maybe necrons, other than that, its worthless.

I call shenanigans on that, they rock vs melta and make deployment even more important. I can't tell you how many times I have been able to deploy outside of 42" of longfangs or the like. And lets not forget bolters, plasma, and other 24" weapons that are capable of destroying our AV 10 paper airplanes. Also does things like force vehicles to move before firing their no 30" guns, putting them in blaster range next turn and limiting them to firing 1 weapon (sorry chimera multilaser OR heavybolter not both).

Nightshields are invaluable for battlefield control and at limiting exposure.

Night shields are good, but I think you have to look at the overall list design. Obviously, mercer is going for a pure MSU build. Such lists tend to forego any upgrades in order to fit more units in. Trying to add 12 night shields means something's got to give....either a beast unit or perhaps a troop unit or maybe some trueborns even. It really depends on what style the owner wants to play.

Great batrep featuring two top lists. I do think nightshields would have helped the dark eldar immensely. Note I don't think Purifiers have to take any pinning tests. Like I said great batrep. Psyflemen are the bane of dark eldar for sure.

Marthike wrote:Night shields are only good vs GK, and maybe necrons, other than that, its worthless.

So the two newest and most prevalent armies......

Seriously? No one liked my MC Hammer joke?

I think it's already been done to death. I pray we don't go through that again, lest I turn this mutha out.

Dang it, am I the only Dark Eldar player that can beat Grey Knights! Wyches beat any type of power armour to death.

warp quake has changed some of my daemon builds and the focus now is alot more faster units. Slow guys that can't fleet, beast/calvary their way to the enemy just aren't as scary anymore :/

mercer wrote:The point however was to see if G.K was over powered. I am sticking to my guns and saying no. They are a pretty cheesy army (too good)

jy2 wrote:Nice report. I've always wanted to play against a DE venom-spam army such as yours. Too bad no one here plays such a build. But it's good to get data on a venom-spam army against a GK army that's similar to mine.

I don't recommend running 3 hammers in a MSU unit. You're at a disadvantage against regular MEQ's, especially the more assaulty ones such as SW and BA.

BTW, Purifiers are fearless.

Thanks about the report, bud. If you can, ask someone to proxy. D.E Venom-spam is fun to play against and with, I think.

Hammers, well I worked out that against a Tactical Squad Purifiers would win regardless of hammers of halberds. Against Genesteales Purifiers would regardless and against 30 Ork Boyz the Purifiers lost regardless. In all situations cleansing flame was cast. I do however think perhaps a single halberd, for those monstrous creatures or something. I am not sure. The theory shows it doesn't make much difference and plus I like smashing stuff

Thanks about Purifiers been fearless

Amerikon wrote:

Marthike wrote:MC Hammer is probably all you need.

QFT. You need extra halberds so the enemy can't touch this. Otherwise you're striking last and you'll have to pray that you're too legit to quit.

good one.

As I said to Jy2, I ran theory against Tactical Squad, Genestealers and large Ork Boyz mob and in all situations the outcome was always the same regardless of hammers or halberds. I am still up in the air about this one. A halberd could be handy.

gardeth wrote:One thing won this game for the GKs....Fortitude and thats it. My DE can beat longfang/laserback spam wolves and mechdar, but throw 4 or more pysfilemen dreads out there and I am toast unless the skys part and the luck of the gods falls upon my dice.....Just 2 damn psychic powers shut down two of my favorite armies, fortitude for my DE, and warp quake for my now shelved demons...

sorry didnt mean to rant, but damn I hate psyflemen dreads.....

Dude, I had fortitude too. I can totally appreciate where you're coming from.

CaptKaruthors wrote:DE's defense against GK is Night Shields...it sounds stupid, but try it..it works. It cuts the firepower of GK down significantly, unless they are willing to advance on you. While it won't always stop the Rifleman's, it definitely limits the Psycannons. In a way, it almost forces the GKs to advance to get more shots in...but plays into the DE players hands as it makes getting his assault units into combat quicker. I think with Nightshields added to at least your venoms, I think perhaps your army would fair better vs. GK. Give it a try.

Night shields, never seen a use for them. See blasters are 18" range, G.K stuff is 24" so night shields will reduce them to 18" also. So, if D.E are in range then so are G.K. I don't think night shields are work it, especially for a single army.

gardeth wrote:I run nightshields on every vehicle, makes games against GK lists without psy-dreads an almost insta-win

See above

-666- wrote:Great batrep featuring two top lists. I do think nightshields would have helped the dark eldar immensely. Note I don't think Purifiers have to take any pinning tests. Like I said great batrep. Psyflemen are the bane of dark eldar for sure.

Thanks about the report . You're right about Purifiers, they are fearless. And I think it's psycannons against D.E, so many shots. The Dreadnoughts were cool but they wasn't exactly blowing stuff up left, right and centre.

Grimnarsmate wrote:Dang it, am I the only Dark Eldar player that can beat Grey Knights! Wyches beat any type of power armour to death.

Hmmm, Wyches. Tried them a few times and wasn't that impressed. S3 doesn't really beat things to death and a power weapon which only wounds on a 4+ doesn't exactly cut things up quickly. I think mass shooting or Beastmasters are the quickest way to cut through power armour units, of course if they don't have cleansing flame

N.I.B. wrote:

mercer wrote:The point however was to see if G.K was over powered. I am sticking to my guns and saying no. They are a pretty cheesy army (too good)

If you're going to quote someone, then I suggest you quote exactly what they say and not twist their words for you're amusment.

After Purifiers won turn 2 assault, they were left out in the open. Why didnt the venoms fire on them.

Your 9 venoms were practically doing nothing the whole day except being targets to be shot at.

Marthike wrote:Night shields are only good vs GK, and maybe necrons, other than that, its worthless.

They are worth it against GK, Necrons, Orks, Tyranids (ok no help needed) and certain niche armies(Deathwing, DoA, Blah blah)

They are not terribly useful against missile launchers, autocannons, or las cannons that every IG/Space Marine has but they are still useful.

Isseyfaran wrote:After Purifiers won turn 2 assault, they were left out in the open. Why didnt the venoms fire on them.

Your 9 venoms were practically doing nothing the whole day except being targets to be shot at.

They did. Didn't you read what happened on turn 3

mercer wrote:[

CaptKaruthors wrote:DE's defense against GK is Night Shields...it sounds stupid, but try it..it works. It cuts the firepower of GK down significantly, unless they are willing to advance on you. While it won't always stop the Rifleman's, it definitely limits the Psycannons. In a way, it almost forces the GKs to advance to get more shots in...but plays into the DE players hands as it makes getting his assault units into combat quicker. I think with Nightshields added to at least your venoms, I think perhaps your army would fair better vs. GK. Give it a try.

Night shields, never seen a use for them. See blasters are 18" range, G.K stuff is 24" so night shields will reduce them to 18" also. So, if D.E are in range then so are G.K. I don't think night shields are work it, especially for a single army.

gardeth wrote:I run nightshields on every vehicle, makes games against GK lists without psy-dreads an almost insta-win

See above

Your blaster/psycannon math is correct, but ONLY for the target of the blasters and the psycannons immediately around it. Nightshields help stop you from taking shots from psycannons 25-30" away or heavy bolters on the other side of the line. They allow you to pick one end of the enemy force, bring all your firepower to bear on it thus eliminating (hopefully) most of the shooting from that part of the field and the then the nightshields severly cut down on the return fire from elsewhere in your opponents line. Its all about battelfield control.

You do make a good point, though a heavy bolter for example should reach pretty mcuh anywhere on the table if positioned right. I don't really think nightshields are worth it that much, especially against things which are more likely to be firing at Venoms i.e missile launchers, lascannons, autocannons etc.

How about this, heres what confinced me to take nightshields back in the previous codex. Just take note in your future games of how many times your vehicles are getting hit when they wouldn't have been with nightshields. IE: missiles 43" away, meltas at 8", or bolters at 22". Sure lascannons and the like suck, but if I can negate the other incidental threats with nightshields I can now focus fire on the 36"+ threats almost exclusively and if I can shut them down, the game is mine.

Well something like a missile is probably always going to be in range because on your own guns range is shorter.

mercer wrote:Well something like a missile is probably always going to be in range because on your own guns range is shorter.

Not if that missile is on the other side of the field because I deployed 2nd in a refused flank. And when I do come into range its after moving 12 and then firing all the weapons I want to into that target hopefully destroying it before it ever gets to fire. You would be suprised how often people deploy heavy weapons troops on their each flank when they are deploying first. At that point nightshields makes it possible to be out of range of one full flanks worth of weapons.

Well, dude, if a squad with a missile launcher is on the other side of the field and you do refused flank (nice deployment btw) then that missile will be out of range anyway as it's a 72" table. The squad will have to relocate losing two turns of shooting at least. Once you're in range though, you just hope you can destroy the target . I wouldn't say night shields are having any affect here, because you've smartly deployed and keeping out of range of your opponent's guns. Night shields don't even come into this situation.

I see that we can continue to go round and round on this, I think we will have just to agree to disagree. But since this is the interwebs I am compelled to call you something deragotry (how about whoremonger) and comment on your obvious mental deficiencies for not agreeing with me.

yeah, agree to disagree, that's cool with me. I respect that some things may work for others when they don't for me. Getting into name calling etc because someone doesn't agree with you is just acting in a slowed manner.