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Hi, guys. This is my first post on Dakka Dakka since I got back into 40k. I'm getting back up to par on 5th edition rules and play with a group of about six guys where, between us, we have every army in the game except Grey Knights (considering the multiple posts I've seen about how overpowered they are, this is probably a good thing). We are all still a little fuzzy with the rules.

One of the questions I had was regarding shooting at troops who have just disembarked from a wrecked transport. For example, a Zoanthrope pops a Trukk full of boys and due to ramshackle rules they emerge unharmed but right out in the middle of my opponents field of fire. Can he then direct shots against those troops during the same shooting phase? The way we've been playing it is that the act of disembarking from the vehicle occurs while all the other units are still firing -- meaning that they have not yet become a viable target. They would then be available as a target during the assault phase. Are we playing this right or can the opposing player pick the squad out as soon as they are on the board?

All shooting within a single squad is simultaneous - which means if you pop a truck with a missile launcher, you can't fire your bolters at the orks that piled out.

Another squad is, however, able to nominate those orks as a target since fire between squads is not simultaneous.

once they are out of the vehice, they are fair game for any unit to shoot up
(including the unit that blew up the vehicle; if it still has unfired weapons it may fire them, though it may only fire at the disembarked unit)

lukyboi wrote:once they are out of the vehice, they are fair game for any unit to shoot up
(including the unit that blew up the vehicle; if it still has unfired weapons, it may only fire at the disembarked unit though)

Your parenthetical statement is false. All shooting within a unit is simultaneous.

Other units can.

All of a unit's firing is simultaneous, but each unit fires sequentially.

editing to add:
Three within a second.

kirsanth too slow. . .

rigeld2 wrote:

lukyboi wrote:once they are out of the vehice, they are fair game for any unit to shoot up
(including the unit that blew up the vehicle; if it still has unfired weapons, it may only fire at the disembarked unit though)

Your parenthetical statement is false. All shooting within a unit is simultaneous.

sorry, i misread, they can assualt them but not shoot them

Also, regarding the assault, of all the units that shoot the Trukk (for example), only the unit that pops it can assault the Boyz inside. So for your example, if you have 2 units of zoanthropes (A and B) shoot the trukk, but B is the one to pop it, A would not be able to assault. Anyone who shot the boyz however, would still be able to assault them.

What if 2 different weapons were used like in a devastator squad. A lascannon pops the trukk, could a heavy bolter then fire on the boyz? What about blast template too? Say i pop the trukk with krak missiles, could I also fire frag missiles at the trukk and hope they scatter over the boyz?

rigeld2 wrote:All shooting within a single squad is simultaneous - which means if you pop a truck with a missile launcher, you can't fire your bolters at the orks that piled out.

Another squad is, however, able to nominate those orks as a target since fire between squads is not simultaneous.

Rig said it best.

Read P.67 for reference, under effects of damage results on passengers. Second Paragraph under 'Destroyed- Explodes'

shamroll wrote:What if 2 different weapons were used like in a devastator squad. A lascannon pops the trukk, could a heavy bolter then fire on the boyz?

That's already been answered in this thread. No. All shooting from the same unit is simultaneous.

shamroll wrote: What about blast template too? Say i pop the trukk with krak missiles, could I also fire frag missiles at the trukk and hope they scatter over the boyz?

I have no idea what you're asking. Are you asking if there are multiple missile launchers in the same devastator squad, if you can fire kraks first, and then frags for the boys that spilll out? No. All firing from the same unit is simultaneous.

DeathReaper wrote:Rig said it best.

I might sig that...

Happyjew wrote:Also, regarding the assault, of all the units that shoot the Trukk (for example), only the unit that pops it can assault the Boyz inside. So for your example, if you have 2 units of zoanthropes (A and B) shoot the trukk, but B is the one to pop it, A would not be able to assault.

Is this correct?? I guess I've never seen this particular circumstance in a game... but it is an interesting point.

Gitsplitta wrote:

Happyjew wrote:Also, regarding the assault, of all the units that shoot the Trukk (for example), only the unit that pops it can assault the Boyz inside. So for your example, if you have 2 units of zoanthropes (A and B) shoot the trukk, but B is the one to pop it, A would not be able to assault.

Is this correct?? I guess I've never seen this particular circumstance in a game... but it is an interesting point.

100% correct. I've missed out on assaults because the wrong unit popped the vehicle. (Tyranid Warriors stunned the crap out of a Rhino, but failed to kill it - instead of letting it run around wild I had to pop it with Hive Guard)

Learn somethin' new every day... thanks!

I kind've figured. Thanks for all the input, fella's! I'll be sure to let the rest of the boys know.

This is all I read:


Note: remember that all models in a single unit fire
simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport
with its lascannon and then mow down the occupants
with their bolters. However, if a transport is destroyed
(either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it
may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is
allowed to assault according to the assault rules.


It doesn't say anything about the shooting phase being or NOT being simutanous as well. I want to find something in the rulebook to help support this as me and some friends haven't been treating it this way.

Can you help support this, I'm all for it I just need proof other than the word of dakkadakka

Well the rules are a permissive ruleset, it has to say that the shooting phase is simultaneous for it to be simultaneous.

It does not say that the whole shooting phase is simultaneous so the whole shooting phase is not simultaneous.

Each model in a single unit fires simultaneously, but not the army as a whole.

This can be seen in practice when a transport is wrecked by one unit early on in the shooting phase, and a different unit can shoot the now disembarked passengers after that first unit is done firing at the transport..

Ah alright, I wanted a clear answer and this seems pretty solid. For awhile we have been treating it as the whole shooting phase is simutaenous...

So in this instance I could...

Blow up a rhino, Lash of submission the occupants, then fire on those occupants with anyone else who hasn't shot this turn?

As long as the lash isn't in the unit that blew up the Rhino.
And the lash unit has to fire while they're in cover.

Aye, the lash would be on a demon prince, the likes of which cannot join any unit. He would lash the guys in cover, pulling them out so i can shoot them without cover

Works just fine.

Chaos is like that...

The Masque is a fun one for that too, in the Daemons book. She can make several units do the out-of-safety twostep..

Sounds like a good strategy with the lash. I'm gonna have to keep my eyes peeled for such shenangins and practice ruining peoples day with a similar one.

So MC's or Walkers (Dreds) wouldnt be able to melta a rhino for example and then flame the contents?

DE Elder wrote:So MC's or Walkers (Dreds) wouldnt be able to melta a rhino for example and then flame the contents?

Correct. They could melta the Rhino and flame the Rhino (not the contents), and then assault the contents if they blow up the Rhino. But, they can't fire 1 gun, wait for it to resolve, and then fire another gun.

decoste007xt wrote: Ah alright, I wanted a clear answer and this seems pretty solid. For awhile we have been treating it as the whole shooting phase is simutaenous.

Read the step by step breakdown of the Shooting phase at the start of the shooting rules. The last step should make it clear that units shoot sequentially IIRC...

@ Ghaz

I just wanted some bullet proof information for the gaming group I play with. We had thought that all shooting was simultaneous, we misinterpreted that each SQUAD is simultaneous. It understand fully now, I just needed it to be concrete when I tell them because they might all agree.

For example we had a game where our Ork buddy had 4 Trukks, each trukk exploded, and each trukk was next to one another... combined with explosions and shooting all 4 Trukk boy squads were annihilated, and he's never forgotten the horror of that. Thats before we "Thought" shooting wasnt simultaneous so its never happened again.

Thanks all

Yes, I understand that.And again, the paragraph immediately after the step by step breakdown for the shooting phase is the proof that you're looking for that while a single units shooting is simultaneous different units shoot sequentially.

Happyjew wrote:Also, regarding the assault, of all the units that shoot the Trukk (for example), only the unit that pops it can assault the Boyz inside. So for your example, if you have 2 units of zoanthropes (A and B) shoot the trukk, but B is the one to pop it, A would not be able to assault. Anyone who shot the boyz however, would still be able to assault them.

true except units that did not shoot in the shooting phase can of course assault whoever they please, even units that disembarked from transports this turn.

rigeld2 wrote:

Gitsplitta wrote:

Happyjew wrote:Also, regarding the assault, of all the units that shoot the Trukk (for example), only the unit that pops it can assault the Boyz inside. So for your example, if you have 2 units of zoanthropes (A and B) shoot the trukk, but B is the one to pop it, A would not be able to assault.

Is this correct?? I guess I've never seen this particular circumstance in a game... but it is an interesting point.

100% correct. I've missed out on assaults because the wrong unit popped the vehicle. (Tyranid Warriors stunned the crap out of a Rhino, but failed to kill it - instead of letting it run around wild I had to pop it with Hive Guard)

Really? What page is this on? I could have sworn both would have been able to charge in.

Page 67, under effects of damage results on passengers, right after explodes, there is a note.