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I've heard a lot about how the Chaos Marines have a bad codex. There has been even more grumbling about how many of the newer armies are way more powerful than some of their older competition. With that in mind.....I'm left wondering if the Chaos Codex is even a viable army to start anymore or if someone should just wait and see on the new codex that the rumor mill has slated for this year.

I'm not talking from experience but surely the other armies' codex can't be that much more powerful.
I started CSM about july last year because I liked the fluff and the look of the models and the variation of styles available.
If a new codex does come out for CSM it doesn't mean that the current one isn't allowed to be used but it means there will be some awesome models that become availabe.

Any army can lose depending on how its used so isn't it just a matter of using the units correctly and knowing how to pick targets etc rather than how powerful per point the units are??

Honestly if you're considering stating an army based on competitive nature, then id reconsider chaos. Pick an army that you'll enjoy playing for quite a while.

As to chaos viability... they arent gray knights, but they can win games.

I've been playing them off and on for about 6 years, and I've discovered that they're the only army worth my time.

They WERE very viable up until the recent FAQ, when GW decided to bring the nerfhammer down on a codex that only had a few really good options left. Now, we have 1 viable build (Lash+Plague Marines+Oblits) and that's it. Wait till we get a new codex. I wouldn't bother at the moment.

th3maninblak wrote:Now, we have 1 viable build (Lash+Plague Marines+Oblits) and that's it.

And even lash got a bit of a nerf, you now need to roll to hit with it. Though it's still viable, the best CSM have at the minute.

Cheap dreads, obliterators are still solid choices, demon princes with wings are cheap CC HQs, plague marines are tough as ever, Abbadon is a beast in higher point cost games, Khorne Berserkers are still great in assault, Defilers make for good artillery, despite being relatively easy to kill, and standard chaos marines are relatively cost effective if you don't go nuts with upgrades. That being said, it's going to be an uphill battle against the more popular netlists.

I don't see why 'how playable' an army is has anything to do with collecting it. If you like the army, pick it up. If you don't, don't! Worst comes to worse, you have a gigantic collection of models when the new codex comes out, and you don't have to rush out and buy a bunch of stuff at once.

I love my CSM, for all their faults. I play lists that I find fun, and I deal with it. I might be unusual, but I could care less about winning or losing, I just like to have fun with them. CSM have a lot of character, I think.

Chaos works. Well. Just not "new codex well"

Lords with demon weapons, dual DCCW dreads, obliterators, cult marines/CSM, all of these are excellent units. I recently played a tournament with such a list against all the new armies and one tau player, effectively giving up 2 points out of three games (with 3 points possible each) so they work. Was helpful my dreads didn't derp around that much.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I don't see why 'how playable' an army is has anything to do with collecting it. If you like the army, pick it up. If you don't, don't! Worst comes to worse, you have a gigantic collection of models when the new codex comes out, and you don't have to rush out and buy a bunch of stuff at once.

I love my CSM, for all their faults. I play lists that I find fun, and I deal with it. I might be unusual, but I could care less about winning or losing, I just like to have fun with them. CSM have a lot of character, I think.

I love Chaos, but this book is bland, boring and (now) underpowered. I wouldn't consider my self a power gamer with a WAAC attitude, but I am by nature a competitive person. I have fun with the game, and the hobby, but I'm having the most fun when I'm winning. That's gonna sound horrible to some, but it's the truth.

No matter how much I love the army, if I consistently get my ass handed to me while playing it, i'll move on.

If you don't mind fighting uphill battles and losing more often than not, then by all means, play chaos.

Firstly, chaos is plenty viable. Don't listen to whiners.

Secondly, chaos is slated for a new codex soon. If you want to play chaos, buy your models now before they get a price hike when the codex comes out.

Ailaros wrote:Firstly, chaos is plenty viable. Don't listen to whiners.

Secondly, chaos is slated for a new codex soon. If you want to play chaos, buy your models now before they get a price hike when the codex comes out.

Yeah, i find myself in rare agreement (with anybody, im naturally contrarian). The whiners are just unhappy they are being weened off of their gimmick crutches (lash and warptime) and finding that they don't know how to run anything other than those builds.

Chaos still has decent units. The basic marine is still a basic marine (though they don't have the ATSKNF, they can take icons). The havoc launchers are a way to make rhinos go farther than vanilla rhinos. The chosen have some great deployment and weapon options. The havocs have access to special AND heavy weapons (i wish my vanilla devs could take 4x melta or plasma).

Given the fact that chaos units in general are more powerful than loyalist marines, its quite possible to build a decent list that a good general can pilot to victory.

That being said, the chaos book has always been a poor book. Not just in comparison to the old book (which was really fluffy and powerful). Most of the flavor in the book had been stripped out, and most of the cool options were as well. The units all became rather vanilla and inflexible (which is against the fluff of chaos...) but each unit was plenty powerful in its own right (as opposed to synergy that BA FNP bubbles have, or eldar with farseer support). Its a bit more challenging to make an army work without natural synergy, but its quite possible with practice.

Be careful if they are getting a new book. Some of the chaos models are REALLY ugly and old... And are likely to get updated looks when a new book comes out. Sometimes its worth paying a premium to not have to deal with ugly metal models.

I play a super fluffy CSM army that uses 1 of each cult troop, some oblits, and in larger games a land raider and some termies, along with 2 princes, or a prince and a badass HQ. It's tough, but I manage to win often enough to keep it interesting. I'm sure with a WAAC list, chaos works just fine.

How competitive do we think this guy wants to be?

Is he asking "can I take this to a major tournament and win?"
is he asking "can I take this to my FLGS and the tournaments they hold there and have a shot at winning?"
is he asking "can I take this to my friends/FLGS and not lose all the time?"

I think he's asking about option's 2&3 here, not option 1. And as far as option 2&3 go, yeah I think CSM is a very viable army. For local tournaments/competitions you might need to streamline your army a bit, but CSM can still field fun solid armies that perform well. It's like an old Mercedes - You can tell its an old car, it's been around for awhile, a little bit of rust here and there under the hood, a bit of wear and tear on the parts. Still has loads of style and class, still nice to cruise around in, and soon will be taken to the repair shop and given a brand spanken new engine, so she can roar along like in her glory days

Yay. This argument again. Just wait till the new book.

It's not an argument yet.

Warptime and Lash were not crutches. That is, unless you consider living lightning, shield of sanguinus or null zone crutches. They were the best things in the codex.

Gents, I think I got what I needed from the conversation. As to what I was looking for.....
1. A solid performer for games at the local shop.
2. A solid performer for tournys at the local shop.

I unfortunately don't have the time to dedicate to trying to be competitive at a national event. I don't play often enough to make that fun. I would like to go one day, but for right now that just isn't in the cards.

I'm in a busy job and have a wife that enjoys my quiet hobby keeping me at home instead of out with my still single fraternity brothers. But she certainly doesn't understand it no matter how much she enjoys my being home. HAHAHA.