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Here is a list I've been thinking over for standard Space marines. I've not had the chance to test it in battle yet, but I'm open to all comments or criticism (specifically about how this list would fare against common Blood Angels or Eldar lists).

HQ

Epistolary w/ plasma pistol (powers to be decided before deployment): 165 points

Troops

2x 10 Tactical squad, flamer, Missile launcher, pwr fist w/ Rhino: 195 points each (+70 for the Rhinos)

Heavy Support

2x Predator w/ autocannon, lascannon sponsons: 120 points each

Whirlwind: 85 points

Fast Attack

Land Speeder w/ heavy flamer: 50 points

If I've done the math correctly this list is 1K points on the dot. My biggest questions on the list are only having two scoring units if i keep the squads whole, or having four scoring units that are only 5 men in size. I'm also not sure if I should leave the Whirlwind and Land Speeder, or take them off and change the points for something else.

I don't really understand the purpose behind the autocannon/lascannon predators. If you really like them, or feel they fill a need in your army, go ahead and keep them, but I would strongly encourage using autocannon/heavy bolter/storm bolter predators. They lend some definite anti-infantry/light armor punch for a cheap price. Plus, I think predators are too flimsy to spend more than 100 pts on.

I rarely see anyone take a whirlwind, but if you like them, go ahead.. They're cheap and if you're expecting hordes or IG hiding in cover, they work great for the point costs.

At 1000 pts, loads of scoring units aren't necessary, but having a third Tactical Squad would help ensure victory of objective based games. I don't know where you'd dig the points out though.

You could strip down your HQ choice(keeping them cheap is key to low pt games) for the points. Just using a normal Librarian would save you 65 pts. That plus the point savings from using AC/HB/SB predators instead would give you 115 pts. Dropping the Whirlwind would give you 200 pts, enough for a full squad plus an upgrade or two, but no ride.. Just a thought. Or you could keep the Whirlwind and use the 115 pts for a CC Scout Squad with Combi-Melta, Meltabomb and Powerfist, which you could use to outflank and destroy enemy tanks in your opponents back field.. Just a thought

Personally, I'd put some effort into finding 10pts for a multi-melta for your landspeeder. Otherwise, it's not going to make much of an impact.

A thunderfire cannon might be a better investment than the whirlwind, only because the tech marine can bolster ruins and repair those predators if he needs to. I also agree with losing the epistolary for a normal librarian, as you're lacking Cc ability you'll want to invest more in shooting and might Be better off changing those rhinos to razorbacks and combat squadding those tacs.

Okay chief, I haven't played SM much since the Rogue Trader days, but I play against them often, and I've started looking into them because: A) I'm getting a little worn with orks and choppy. B) A buddy of mine doesn't feel that they're that competitive and that other Codices are much better.

On a slightly related tangent, lets look at that:

Dark Angels.....meh.....so you've got Deathwing and Razorwing. Good for themes and fun....particularly with terminators.

Black Templars: Nice little deathstars, but need some touching up.

This leaves: Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

Blood Angels: All those fast vehicles at a higher cost, and really fun nasty deathstar choppy assault units. Very effective, particularly with all the fast razorbacks that they can field with even fewer points by sacrificing assault squad jump packs.

Space Wolves: Extremely shooty, slightly overpowered, with great counterstrike capability, not to mention the fact that most are standardly equipped with bolters, bolt pistols, AND CCW's, much like Chaos Space Marines.

So, what advantages do vanilla marines have(and let me say it irks me that BA pay less for devastator weapons)?

I think the biggest one is the one you're missing. The ability to field vindicators for 115 points!

I also feel that you're losing a bit by not fielding razorbacks.

The landspeeder functions better with a MM than a HF alone. A fast anti-infantry(and heavy flamers are so-so against MEQ)isn't as desirable as a fast anti-vehicular.

At 1k points, I'd drop the epistolary and probably the plasma pistol as well.

I'm not that fond of whirlwinds either. Thunderfire cannons indeed seem to do better.

If you switch the 2 preds for vindicators, you've got the 10 points for the MM on the land speeder. Let's face it, S10 AP2 is AV and AI, period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe something like:

100 Librarian

245 10 x Tactical Squad, melta, Plasma cannon, power fist, combi-melta. DT: Rhino

175 5 x Tactical Squad, combi-melta. DT: Las/Plas Razorback

175 5 x Tactical Squad, combi-melta. DT: Las/Plas Razorback

115 Vindicator
115 Vindicator

70 Landspeeder w/MM,HF

That's 1k

Combat squad the tactical if you'd like, to fire with the plasma cannon, or remove it(maybe take a ML) and throw melta bombs on a sgt for a plasmaback team, whatever you like. This gives you some more options and a lot more firepower, IMO.

Thanks for the response from everyone.

Taurinus: Is there a heavy weapon on the squad that is split between the two Razorbacks, or are you using the points for the combi-meltas since they likely wouldn't have much use for heavy weapons?

To get the extra Razorback, he had to use two 5 man squads, not one 10 man squad that's combat squaded. Unfortunately, for vanilla marines you can't take a special or heavy weapon without taking a full 10 man squad. Hence, the combi-melta. Does that clear things up?

Yes, it does. Thanks.

Here's the list I run for 1000pts:

HQ:

Librarian – Force Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Power Armour - 100pts

Troops:

Scouts - 9x Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher - 150pts

Tactical 1 - 250pts

Combat Squad 1: 3x Bolter, 1x Melta Gun, Sergeant (BP/CCW), Razorback with TL Lascannon
Combat Squad 2: 4x Bolter, 1x Missile Launcher

Tactical 2 - 250pts

Combat Squad 3: 3x Bolter, 1x Melta Gun, Sergeant (BP/CCW), Razorback with TL Ass. Cannon
Combat Squad 4: 4x Bolter, 1x Missile Launcher

Heavy:

Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts

Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts

Total: 1000pts


Vindicators (especially in pairs) are really, really scary at low point levels. They can demolish an Ork Horde, and, if you play them right, can last a long time into a game. Not to mention, any enemy armour will also have to worry about the Combat Squads mounted in the Razorbacks, as they'll be barreling up with their melta guns.

I also love scouts, if you can't tell, as Scouts Snipers can slow things down to get pulverised even more with the vindicators.

I just wish I could find 50pts to stuff Telion in, because it'd be delicious to see him ruin some PK Nobs or Special/Heavy Weapon troopers.

Themandudeperson got it about the weapons.

Crazyterran has a good list there. It's a matter of taste, both are fairly similar, but with distinct points and tactical differences.

The only problem I find with going with combi weapons, is, that since they are one shot only, they always miss.

Always.

The more crucial the moment of using the combi weapon, the greater the chance it won't do squat all, i've found.

It's funny, that's exactly how the rolls for my nob PK's seem to be more recently! Oh, 4 attacks, I got this in the bag......1 hit.....1 for wounding.....bah.

Crazyterran wrote:The only problem I find with going with combi weapons, is, that since they are one shot only, they always miss.

Always.

The more crucial the moment of using the combi weapon, the greater the chance it won't do squat all, i've found.

That is why you get as many combi-weapons in a squad as possible for best results.

I got to use a 2,000 point list based on the advice in this thread against a BA player. I'll link to the battle report when it's up, but it worked pretty well. It seemed that it has good flexibility, but last night got nerfed by going second in a dawn of war deployment (as well as my own rookie mistake in my first battle). Thanks for all of the input.

It's rough going against BA with the Vanilla Codex, IMO. BA's offer vastly superior mechanized options. Between Razorback units starting cheaper, and almost everything being fast, they've got a severe advantage.

I agree. However, considering how close it ended up being between my inexperience and a deployment that rid me of every single advantage I had in the fight, I'd be willing to run that list again against BA with only a few tweaks. Ironclad Dreadnoughts are invaluable against BA (and would definitely be put into the 1K lists above), it took my opponent forever to take one of them down, and he never touched the other one (though he did manage to tar pit it for much of the battle in melee).