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And so it begins

What tank has a coaxial lascannon?

 Niiai wrote:

 Zuri Prime wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Tank commanders can not command characters. Tank commanders are characters. I don't know where it sais that. I hope that helps, although somebody can chime in with the quote.

I stil wanne know how to make cheap heavy weapon teams.

The codex says the TC can command a friendly <regiment> Leman Russ within 6" to give it an order, there is nothing preventing the TC from ordering itself.

is there not a non character clause erataed on?

That was index. They removed that restriction in the codex.

 Niiai wrote:

 Zuri Prime wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Tank commanders can not command characters. Tank commanders are characters. I don't know where it sais that. I hope that helps, although somebody can chime in with the quote.

I stil wanne know how to make cheap heavy weapon teams.

The codex says the TC can command a friendly <regiment> Leman Russ within 6" to give it an order, there is nothing preventing the TC from ordering itself.

is there not a non character clause erataed on?

What Argonak said. Your TC can now command themselves to get their points worth.

Cool! Whar russes are worth using? Personally I like the big cannon as well as the gatteling one.

 daedalus wrote:
What tank has a coaxial lascannon?

i just use that as a fuss with hull lascannon and battle cannon.

Also opponent conceded by turn 2. His army was two sorcers a land raider a bunch of cultists and 5 terminators. He swears this was a 1500 army not sure he mixed it up with his 1000

Also 15 noise marines that infiltrated with the alpha legion trait

So I have a rules question-
I use Tallarn Ambush and also have two Artemia Hellhounds that I am considering using to outflank as a Unit. I don’t want them within 6” of each other at the end of movement because they have the potential of causing d6 mortal wounds to units within 6” of them if they explode.
The way I read the Ambush rule, at the end of the movement phase the unit is “set up” within 7” of the table edge and thus there is no “movement” per se (and thus no chance for them to move away from each other).
Is this the proper interpretation?

 Niiai wrote:
Cool! Whar russes are worth using? Personally I like the big cannon as well as the gatteling one.

Really, most of them are worth your time depending on if you like their fluff or looks, or if you want to reap maximum value out of your selection. For example, a Cadian Pask Punisher is one of the best ways to use a LR due to its orders and bonuses. Personally, I'd recommend the Battle Tank, Executioner, Punisher and Demolisher. If you want to use Forgeworld, the Conqueror is scary in close quarters with its coaxial stormbolter's ability. The ones that are more fluffy are the Eradicator, Exterminator and the Vanquisher.

 Niiai wrote:
Cool! Whar russes are worth using? Personally I like the big cannon as well as the gatteling one.

Personally I swear by the Leman Russ Conqueror with Catachan regiment tactics. It is 100% self sufficient, pretty cheap and has a very versatile weapon load out by default.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Cool! Whar russes are worth using? Personally I like the big cannon as well as the gatteling one.

Personally I swear by the Leman Russ Conqueror with Catachan regiment tactics. It is 100% self sufficient, pretty cheap and has a very versatile weapon load out by default.

The issue with us is that we both play GSC and use AM as an "add on" so we get to use the Broodbrothers Regiment which means we can't take specific <Regiment> buffs. But, then again, GSC get to use both AM and Nids so it is an okay trade off.

Cheers for confirming my issue lads

I plan on running 2 Tank Commanders w/ Battle Cannons and Lascannons with 6 Tyranid Biovores and using Tyranids/GSC as my CC threats as well.

I'll post my list if any of ye are interested

The good old leman Russ battlecannon paired with a lascannon has served me well. It's cheap, hits like a truck, and is pretty purpose built to support infantry. Then I take between 4-6 more of them and call it a day. I run a stupid amount of infantry so things like heavy bolters and sponsons are pointless for me. I keep it purpose built and send them in pairs or 3's after things I don't like.

Close second is the executioner. It goes in the exact opposite direction. You want it to be a commander, order itself to reroll ones, and give it a lascannon and plasma sponsons. Hideously expensive for a Russ as it tips the scale at well over 200pts, but it's damage output can be even more hideous. It's a bit of a gamblers weapon, but if you have a trait to offset the gets hot rolls, its worth it. It should be held back to counter a breakthrough or until you know you can get off a volley before being shot back. I've found it's my best option if I'm only going to have 1-2 tanks. It's going to get focused even if you have 5 so it's not able to survive by Target saturation like a normal company of LRBT's can. But boy howdy I've only ever needed one turn to get it's points back. It's main weakness is honestly range, that 36" range on the plasma hurts more than you think it would. I've found worrying about mortal wounds, even if you moved and have no native rerolls, rarely matters. It will take at worst maybe 4 wounds in a particularly unlucky volley, and is unlikely to fire a second as few players will allow it to live that long. Normally all you need to say is "it's Russ with plasma for every weapon" and people will fire everything they have into it 2d6 +2d3 overcharged plasma and a lascannon is no joke.

The other variants are a bit too specialized for how I play. Eradicators would have a point but plasma fills the role. Exterminators are a waste of a hull since I can get autocannons on tauroxes and get a great transport to boot. Vanquishers don't really serve a purpose that isn't filled by the normal Russ. Punishers are unnecessary for an infantry heavy player like myself and really lack range, they can work for tank companies or mech but not infantry. Going to FW, conquerors are good but need to be in 24" of the target to get it's bonuses, and having 24" less range on the cannon hurts. Annihilators look really great, I've just never tried one, but 5 lascannon shots a turn, 4 with no penalty on the move looks good on paper. If there are other variants I'm unaware of them.

I really need to try a conqueror sometime, but I feel that it's knife fighting tendencies would not mesh well with my playstyle. Personal experience has taught me that a leman Russ within 24" has 1 to 2 turns at most of life expectancy, so while that conqueror will probably get off one hell of an opening shot, I don't see them living as long. Meanehile a typical battletank with proper infantry screens can engage at pretty much full firepower at ranges up to 72", only thing stopping it is line of sight. The range on the battlecannon has come up far more than I thought it would and let's the tanks engage almost any other threat in the game bar ludicrously more specialized weapons with 0 threat of return fire. On top of that, for games on "hamburger" or "grilled sheese" deployment, fights past 48" are a very real thing and that 72" let's you hug the table edge and still engage the other side of the board. This is important as many of the favored long range AT weapons are either lascannons and missile launchers (48" range) or plasma/ melta (ideally 6-12" range) By playing keep away, you give the tank more turns to do damage, so while it's not as initially powerful as say a conqueror turn 1, it's more likely to survive to the end of the game and deal more damage in the long run.

But that's just my experience. I'd imagine tank players are being more aggressive with their tanks and the conqueror better fits into their lists.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
\

I really need to try a conqueror sometime, but I feel that it's knife fighting tendencies would not mesh well with my playstyle. Personal experience has taught me that a leman Russ within 24" has 1 to 2 turns at most of life expectancy, so while that conqueror will probably get off one hell of an opening shot, I don't see them living as long. Meanehile a typical battletank with proper infantry screens can engage at pretty much full firepower at ranges up to 72", only thing stopping it is line of sight. The range on the battlecannon has come up far more than I thought it would and let's the tanks engage almost any other threat in the game bar ludicrously more specialized weapons with 0 threat of return fire. On top of that, for games on "hamburger" or "grilled sheese" deployment, fights past 48" are a very real thing and that 72" let's you hug the table edge and still engage the other side of the board. This is important as many of the favored long range AT weapons are either lascannons and missile launchers (48" range) or plasma/ melta (ideally 6-12" range) By playing keep away, you give the tank more turns to do damage, so while it's not as initially powerful as say a conqueror turn 1, it's more likely to survive to the end of the game and deal more damage in the long run.

But that's just my experience. I'd imagine tank players are being more aggressive with their tanks and the conqueror better fits into their lists.

That was actually my first concern when I started using the conqueror. I was thinking that the superior range and not needing to be close would be really nice, but as I played it I found I was usually in 24 inches anyways to get the re-rolls and when it was not I found I NEVER needed more than the 48" range it has. Now I usually run with 70 guardsmen bodies who make an alright wall of bodies to tie up assault armies long enough and shooty armies will be in range of the tank anyways (Most of the time). When you go Catachan (or cadian with tank commander orders) the tank just becomes a super reliable and dependable unit that can handle just about any threat. 2d6 re-rolling both d6s, then hitting on 4s re-rolling is going to do like 6 damage on average to a t7 3+ model I think while still being good at taking at chaff and elite untis due to its rate of fire. My favorite thing though is the fact that you can buy another storm bolter so you get two little storm bolters just plinking at something haha. The only real trouble I have with it is deciding if I want to take sponsons and hunter killers. Usually I don't just because I find I am moving the tank fairly often, but hey its a cool option.

TLDR: Yeah dude totally try out the conqueror! It is awesome! <3

konst80hummel wrote:
On a slightly different tone... How are you people coping with the new Death Guard? Their Disgustingly Resilient ability on everything makes it very hard to kill things. And their tank is noticeably killy. I go out of my way to win by objectives (as in seriously undermining my position for the next turn). I mainly use a Brigade with 60 guardsmen with basilisks, a Manticore, Executioner and a Punisher.
In short the more I play games of 8th the more i think Guard is very powerful against marines and Eldar but we have a problem with high resilience armies.

If they're not taking 8 to 12 plaguebursts, you should just be able to shoot them down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
The good old leman Russ battlecannon paired with a lascannon has served me well. It's cheap, hits like a truck, and is pretty purpose built to support infantry. Then I take between 4-6 more of them and call it a day. I run a stupid amount of infantry so things like heavy bolters and sponsons are pointless for me. I keep it purpose built and send them in pairs or 3's after things I don't like.

Close second is the executioner. It goes in the exact opposite direction. You want it to be a commander, order itself to reroll ones, and give it a lascannon and plasma sponsons. Hideously expensive for a Russ as it tips the scale at well over 200pts, but it's damage output can be even more hideous. It's a bit of a gamblers weapon, but if you have a trait to offset the gets hot rolls, its worth it. It should be held back to counter a breakthrough or until you know you can get off a volley before being shot back. I've found it's my best option if I'm only going to have 1-2 tanks. It's going to get focused even if you have 5 so it's not able to survive by Target saturation like a normal company of LRBT's can. But boy howdy I've only ever needed one turn to get it's points back. It's main weakness is honestly range, that 36" range on the plasma hurts more than you think it would. I've found worrying about mortal wounds, even if you moved and have no native rerolls, rarely matters. It will take at worst maybe 4 wounds in a particularly unlucky volley, and is unlikely to fire a second as few players will allow it to live that long. Normally all you need to say is "it's Russ with plasma for every weapon" and people will fire everything they have into it 2d6 +2d3 overcharged plasma and a lascannon is no joke.

The other variants are a bit too specialized for how I play. Eradicators would have a point but plasma fills the role. Exterminators are a waste of a hull since I can get autocannons on tauroxes and get a great transport to boot. Vanquishers don't really serve a purpose that isn't filled by the normal Russ. Punishers are unnecessary for an infantry heavy player like myself and really lack range, they can work for tank companies or mech but not infantry. Going to FW, conquerors are good but need to be in 24" of the target to get it's bonuses, and having 24" less range on the cannon hurts. Annihilators look really great, I've just never tried one, but 5 lascannon shots a turn, 4 with no penalty on the move looks good on paper. If there are other variants I'm unaware of them.

I really need to try a conqueror sometime, but I feel that it's knife fighting tendencies would not mesh well with my playstyle. Personal experience has taught me that a leman Russ within 24" has 1 to 2 turns at most of life expectancy, so while that conqueror will probably get off one hell of an opening shot, I don't see them living as long. Meanehile a typical battletank with proper infantry screens can engage at pretty much full firepower at ranges up to 72", only thing stopping it is line of sight. The range on the battlecannon has come up far more than I thought it would and let's the tanks engage almost any other threat in the game bar ludicrously more specialized weapons with 0 threat of return fire. On top of that, for games on "hamburger" or "grilled sheese" deployment, fights past 48" are a very real thing and that 72" let's you hug the table edge and still engage the other side of the board. This is important as many of the favored long range AT weapons are either lascannons and missile launchers (48" range) or plasma/ melta (ideally 6-12" range) By playing keep away, you give the tank more turns to do damage, so while it's not as initially powerful as say a conqueror turn 1, it's more likely to survive to the end of the game and deal more damage in the long run.

But that's just my experience. I'd imagine tank players are being more aggressive with their tanks and the conqueror better fits into their lists.

play with enough tanks, and you can use tanks to block LoS for your tanks

 davidgr33n wrote:
So I have a rules question-
I use Tallarn Ambush and also have two Artemia Hellhounds that I am considering using to outflank as a Unit. I don’t want them within 6” of each other at the end of movement because they have the potential of causing d6 mortal wounds to units within 6” of them if they explode.
The way I read the Ambush rule, at the end of the movement phase the unit is “set up” within 7” of the table edge and thus there is no “movement” per se (and thus no chance for them to move away from each other).
Is this the proper interpretation?

I'm afraid you're right, according to the erratta then count as moving their full distance so unless you successfully make a charge with one of them (not a great idea) they'll finish your turn within 6" of each other. The hellhound actually explodes on a 4+ rather than the Devil dog or Bane Wolf which only explode on a 6+ . I've tried ambushing two hellhounds and one Devil Dog putting the Devil Dog in the middle. It means that if one of the hellhounds explodes it only takes mortal wounds off one of the other vehicles. I keep a CP re-roll aside for this specifically for the d6 number of wounds.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best...

Actually, the Codex Hellhounds all explode on a 6+, but I haven’t seen any erratas for it.
The FW Artemia pattern Hellhound explodes on a 4+ and causes D6 mortal wounds rather than the D3 mortal wounds of the Codex versions. It’s the main reason I use them, they go into the middle of my opponents lines flaming everything up and daring them to charge into it.

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

konst80hummel wrote:
On a slightly different tone... How are you people coping with the new Death Guard? Their Disgustingly Resilient ability on everything makes it very hard to kill things. And their tank is noticeably killy. I go out of my way to win by objectives (as in seriously undermining my position for the next turn). I mainly use a Brigade with 60 guardsmen with basilisks, a Manticore, Executioner and a Punisher.
In short the more I play games of 8th the more i think Guard is very powerful against marines and Eldar but we have a problem with high resilience armies.

Multi damage really ruins plague marines day. A manticore still wounds them on a 2+ and does d3 damage meaning they are only really slightly more survivable to it then a regular marine. The things that are VERY annoying are the vehicles. High toughness a demon save and a DR save makes them a real PITA to remove sometimes. That said, you deal with them like you deal with most things, more gun.

Agreed. I take Artemia Hellhounds in my lists specifically for multi-wound models. Also, Rough Riders with their D3 wounds on the charge could do a little damage, though I wouldn’t count on too much... I’ve charged Terminators with 5 RRs and taken out 2 several times, not a bad return on investment, though they usually get wiped out afterwards.

I have my brother, a friend of mine, and 3 other dg payers in my area so I play DG a LOT, haven't lost a game yet with my guard(my list is good but not hyper tuned) v any of them yet. And I can say the best weapons against them are high AP guns, no joke mvp almost every game are my two tempestus Command squads with hot shot volley guns. Turning the marines 3+ into a 5+ is huge, even with Dr they drop like flies (hehe)

so one thing i'm learning with my guard, and maybe someone else can tell me if they feel the same, is that infantry squads should be run buck naked and ran mobile. I really feel from my last game i should have kept my heavy weapons into one team and ran up the infantry. Munching on a guard squad should feel like eating a potato chip... tasty but unsatisfying, hollow without a sense of accomplishment. leaving you to want more.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Actually, the Codex Hellhounds all explode on a 6+, but I haven’t seen any erratas for it.
The FW Artemia pattern Hellhound explodes on a 4+ and causes D6 mortal wounds rather than the D3 mortal wounds of the Codex versions. It’s the main reason I use them, they go into the middle of my opponents lines flaming everything up and daring them to charge into it.

Codex Hellhounds explode on 4+. "Add two to any results in the case of the Hellhound". Ergo Explodes on a 4+. Devil Dog and Bane Wolf still only explode on a 6+. Thats why I put the Devil Dog in the middle.

CaptainO wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Actually, the Codex Hellhounds all explode on a 6+, but I haven’t seen any erratas for it.
The FW Artemia pattern Hellhound explodes on a 4+ and causes D6 mortal wounds rather than the D3 mortal wounds of the Codex versions. It’s the main reason I use them, they go into the middle of my opponents lines flaming everything up and daring them to charge into it.

Codex Hellhounds explode on 4+. "Add two to any results in the case of the Hellhound". Ergo Explodes on a 4+. Devil Dog and Bane Wolf still only explode on a 6+. Thats why I put the Devil Dog in the middle.

The problem is that the Index Hellhound rules are superseded by the Codex Hellhound rules, which does not include that verbiage. They all explode on a 6 now.
(I have the digital “Enhanced Version” of the Codex, which hasn’t always been correct, so if my digital copy is wrong I’d be happy to know).

Codex hellhounds add +2 to the explosion results in the codex. It is in parenthesis so you may miss it if you don't continue reading.

Played my first game with guard in 8th yesterday. I took two large sqauds of Rough riders (one with flamers, one with melta's). Mainly because i just like lots of horses on the table. Normally I would use DKOK Death Riders but I gave the Rough riders a shot this time. Sadly I was quite disapointed: only one attack with the lance is not something to write home about.

Please advice on prefered tactics for my favorite models when using them as codex Rough riders?

commented to reply to an old question, asked on the previous page

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Played my first game with guard in 8th yesterday. I took two large sqauds of Rough riders (one with flamers, one with melta's). Mainly because i just like lots of horses on the table. Normally I would use DKOK Death Riders but I gave the Rough riders a shot this time. Sadly I was quite disapointed: only one attack with the lance is not something to write home about.

Please advice on prefered tactics for my favorite models when using them as codex Rough riders?

Rough Riders are very good at reaching far off OBJs and being a nuisance. They are not a very effective combat unit. Don't expect them to kill much. I tie up vehicles, charge from out of LoS, etc. Be sneaky with them because they will die easily.

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Played my first game with guard in 8th yesterday. I took two large sqauds of Rough riders (one with flamers, one with melta's). Mainly because i just like lots of horses on the table. Normally I would use DKOK Death Riders but I gave the Rough riders a shot this time. Sadly I was quite disapointed: only one attack with the lance is not something to write home about.

Please advice on prefered tactics for my favorite models when using them as codex Rough riders?

Rough Riders are very good at reaching far off OBJs and being a nuisance. They are not a very effective combat unit. Don't expect them to kill much. I tie up vehicles, charge from out of LoS, etc. Be sneaky with them because they will die easily.

Too bad. That's not the roles I anticipated for them. A well, moar tanks it is then.

Is the chimera worth running? I'm considering getting the AM battleforce to supplement the SC box I already have and I'd rather not get a useless vehicle on top of two useless commisars.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Played my first game with guard in 8th yesterday. I took two large sqauds of Rough riders (one with flamers, one with melta's). Mainly because i just like lots of horses on the table. Normally I would use DKOK Death Riders but I gave the Rough riders a shot this time. Sadly I was quite disapointed: only one attack with the lance is not something to write home about.

Please advice on prefered tactics for my favorite models when using them as codex Rough riders?

I use 3×5 with 2 plasma guns per squad to fill out a Cadian brigade.

I either aim them at backfield dakka units or get them within 12" of my planned target for overlapping fields of fire. The +1 to hit makes over charging safe.

They are a useful suicide squad IMO. I'm pretty good at finding a place my opponent doesn't want them to be and they often focus too much firepower into the rough riders.

Hi Guys, im planning on running a small 400-500pt aux detachment to my primaris force and would like to run pretty much all infantry- im thinking around 4x 10 infantry with a plasma in each, 2x 3 heavy weapon squads (all AC or mix of AC and Las) and then 3x company commander so that nobody goes without orders. this comes in at around 400pts.

My question is; whilst im more than happy for the primaris to claim the glory, is there any way of inserting some fast hard hitting infantry in with melta/plasma to really disrupt and damage the enemy in their own end? such as veterans/tempestus/special weapons teams?

Yup, outflanking Tallarn squads and Scions of all kinds are mostly what you're looking for. Or deep striking Elysian Drop Troop if you fancy some forgeworld in your collection.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Played my first game with guard in 8th yesterday. I took two large sqauds of Rough riders (one with flamers, one with melta's). Mainly because i just like lots of horses on the table. Normally I would use DKOK Death Riders but I gave the Rough riders a shot this time. Sadly I was quite disapointed: only one attack with the lance is not something to write home about.

Please advice on prefered tactics for my favorite models when using them as codex Rough riders?

I use 3×5 with 2 plasma guns per squad to fill out a Cadian brigade.

I either aim them at backfield dakka units or get them within 12" of my planned target for overlapping fields of fire. The +1 to hit makes over charging safe.

They are a useful suicide squad IMO. I'm pretty good at finding a place my opponent doesn't want them to be and they often focus too much firepower into the rough riders.

Yes the Rough Riders 1A coupled with WS4 means they’ll be taking very few models out max per charge.
I run mine with 5 Riders, 2 with meltaguns. I will bring them on close to Multiwound models: the meltas don’t overheat and so are safer to fire with more potential damage, and the Sgt has two attacks, so if I can get the charge off I’ll still have 4 lance attacks and the horses attacks as well. Since they do D3 damage I always try to pounce on multiwound models, that way if they connect they are putting out damage. This fast moving cheap unit becomes a distraction carnifex for your opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Process wrote:
Hi Guys, im planning on running a small 400-500pt aux detachment to my primaris force and would like to run pretty much all infantry- im thinking around 4x 10 infantry with a plasma in each, 2x 3 heavy weapon squads (all AC or mix of AC and Las) and then 3x company commander so that nobody goes without orders. this comes in at around 400pts.

My question is; whilst im more than happy for the primaris to claim the glory, is there any way of inserting some fast hard hitting infantry in with melta/plasma to really disrupt and damage the enemy in their own end? such as veterans/tempestus/special weapons teams?

My suggestion would be take a Tallarn detachment and take the Ambush stratagem, which allows you to outflank 3 units. Take a commander for Orders, a command squad and SWS squad full of your preferred weapons. If you’re willing to invest a little more, take the Dagger of Tusakh to take two more units outflanking.

10 Rough Riders have the following attacks on the charge:

11x WS4+ Str5 AP-2 D3 each wound
10x WS4+ Str3 chainsword
10x WS4+ Str3 Trampling Hooves

Can easily take out chaff units.