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I play a genestealer spam nid list, and play against my friends BA. In the last couple games my genestealers have shredded all his assault marines and other marines and if im lucky a dread. Thus he started calling genestealers overpowered as . I disagree with this, with only a 5+ save and T4 they are quite easy to kill. Also the lack of grenades and the inability to get them for them is a huge downfall. I keep telling him to use rhinos/ razorbacks but he doesnt wanna run a razor spam list (he wants fluffy BA with lots of assault marines) All I can come up with is genestealers are glass hammers. If they hit in close combat they normally shred what ever they hit, but if they get shot they die. Im also running trigons for heavy and tervagons as my HQ (I dont have a hive tyrant yet) So what im asking is are they overpowered or am I just running a cheesy list?

I think genestealers are one of those units that, if your opponent is unprepared or inexperienced against them, they're gonna find the stealers to be huge nuisance. That said, genestealers have some huge drawbacks, and are easily countered and dealt with in a balanced list. I don't think they are OP, but they are a decent challenge. I love me some Ymgarl stealers!!!

Plus, it's nice to see units that can shut down space marines with ease.

They're not overpowered, you're just using them right - and he's dealing with them in the wrong way.

Flamers kill Genestealers like nobody's business.

If he doesn't want to mech-up, then just keep on crushing him, dude.

Sounds like your blood angels player is the standard herp derp charge in kinda blood angels player. Maybe if he shot the genestealers....

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:They're not overpowered, you're just using them right - and he's dealing with them in the wrong way.

This. Let me guess, he hangs around the board edges a lot?

Iv seen space marines get flayed by genestealers in close combat and the same night a tau army obliterated the same army list of genestealers. I walked away to buy a drink and by the time I came back the whole field changed.
It's tactics. Running upto them for h2h can be like throwing yourself into a blender.
Your friend needs to adapt his army to the challenge yours presents not just insist on using the same old same old and expecting to win.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:They're not overpowered, you're just using them right - and he's dealing with them in the wrong way.

This. Let me guess, he hangs around the board edges a lot?

Yup Ive even gotten lucky enough to kill a blood talon dread with yarma stealers....he wasnt happy.

tell him to stay away from the board edges and bring a flamer -_-

theman99808 wrote:I play a genestealer spam nid list, and play against my friends BA. In the last couple games my genestealers have shredded all his assault marines and other marines and if im lucky a dread. Thus he started calling genestealers overpowered as . I disagree with this, with only a 5+ save and T4 they are quite easy to kill. Also the lack of grenades and the inability to get them for them is a huge downfall. I keep telling him to use rhinos/ razorbacks but he doesnt wanna run a razor spam list (he wants fluffy BA with lots of assault marines) All I can come up with is genestealers are glass hammers. If they hit in close combat they normally shred what ever they hit, but if they get shot they die. Im also running trigons for heavy and tervagons as my HQ (I dont have a hive tyrant yet) So what im asking is are they overpowered or am I just running a cheesy list?

typical blood angles player who thinks the answer to every question is assault. I had one who was telling me Incubi were overpowered because they could kill his assault marines...

Exergy wrote:

theman99808 wrote:I play a genestealer spam nid list, and play against my friends BA. In the last couple games my genestealers have shredded all his assault marines and other marines and if im lucky a dread. Thus he started calling genestealers overpowered as . I disagree with this, with only a 5+ save and T4 they are quite easy to kill. Also the lack of grenades and the inability to get them for them is a huge downfall. I keep telling him to use rhinos/ razorbacks but he doesnt wanna run a razor spam list (he wants fluffy BA with lots of assault marines) All I can come up with is genestealers are glass hammers. If they hit in close combat they normally shred what ever they hit, but if they get shot they die. Im also running trigons for heavy and tervagons as my HQ (I dont have a hive tyrant yet) So what im asking is are they overpowered or am I just running a cheesy list?

typical blood angles player who thinks the answer to every question is assault. I had one who was telling me Incubi were overpowered because they could kill his assault marines...

It would be like someone complaining that my Khorne Beserkers are overpowered because they can rip apart their standard SM in an assault.

A lot of Blood Angels players I've encountered have the same delusions of grandeur! They seem to think that BA are the final say in CC

Your friend is a whiner who forgets that Assault marines are not CC gods; they are tac marines with jetpacks. Charging genestealers gets you killed. Instead: One, you have guns, they do not. Shoot them and make them assault you. Two, while you're shooting them, hide in cover to negate their initiative (no frags for genestealers) and then cut them down easily.

With the jetpacks, shouldn't you be able to just bounce around the table avoiding them, while taking pot shots with pistols until their number are low enough to assault and win? Or if they turn around to eat something else, swoop in for the charge and hope they don't turn around?

Klogger wrote:With the jetpacks, shouldn't you be able to just bounce around the table avoiding them, while taking pot shots with pistols until their number are low enough to assault and win? Or if they turn around to eat something else, swoop in for the charge and hope they don't turn around?

Hell, you don't even have to do that. Ignore them with AM, and use TacMarines to shoot the nuts off them until they're low in number and easily killed.

Klogger wrote:With the jetpacks, shouldn't you be able to just bounce around the table avoiding them, while taking pot shots with pistols until their number are low enough to assault and win? Or if they turn around to eat something else, swoop in for the charge and hope they don't turn around?

If you're within range of shooting your pistols, you're within range of getting assaulted by them unfortunately.

However, if you focus fire on the front ranks of Genestealers as they approach, then the "wave" will have lost a lot of momentum before it reaches you, so to speak.

Honestly, I love games where it's CC horde vs static gunline. It just puts out that 40k aesthetic of, "OH GOD WE"RE FETHED BUT KEEP SHOOTING BOYS! FOR THE EMPRAH!!!" which always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

My brother plays the same kind of list - drop list based around assault Marines with Blood Talon dreadnoughts. However, the one thing my brother does really wrong is he doesn't give his sergeants power fists.

When he played my Tyranids, it was pretty funny watching himtry his usual tactics against the bugs. His units dropped in, and got hammered by Warp Blasts, Impaler Cannons and Deathspitters, then got assaulted rather than did the assaulting, and got torn apart. His sergeants and commander, with power weapons, futilely swung their swords at my monstrous creatures to no avail, and in the end, lost without killing a single Tyranid unit.

Assaulting an army better than you at assault is a bad idea.

Klogger wrote:With the jetpacks, shouldn't you be able to just bounce around the table avoiding them, while taking pot shots with pistols until their number are low enough to assault and win? Or if they turn around to eat something else, swoop in for the charge and hope they don't turn around?

This is the correct answer. Or make them come into terrain to engage you. They don't have grenades.

It's what they're more or less meant to kill. They cost a points premium and die like wusses to bolter fire. If he doesn't want to do "razorspam" (nobody will begrudge him for taking one with a flamer) but a Baal with a Flamestorm cannon will destroy them and can kite them beforehand.

This just shows that a good list in the hands of a bad player loses.

cvtuttle wrote:

Klogger wrote:With the jetpacks, shouldn't you be able to just bounce around the table avoiding them, while taking pot shots with pistols until their number are low enough to assault and win? Or if they turn around to eat something else, swoop in for the charge and hope they don't turn around?

This is the correct answer. Or make them come into terrain to engage you. They don't have grenades.

Actually no. At best, the Blood Angels will bounce around 12" and shoot. Genestealers can go upwards of 7-12" before assaulting if everything goes well.

I've always wondered how DoA lists dealt with units that were better at CC

Far Seer wrote:I've always wondered how DoA lists dealt with units that were better at CC

Usually by shooting them. Even Assault Squads carry guns for a reason.

Far Seer wrote:I've always wondered how DoA lists dealt with units that were better at CC

Usually you avoid those units. You try your best to not deal with them and if you have to deal with CC units you have your entire army focus fire on it and charge it as one big horde. GK's is also a problem for DoA or any Jump Pack list since 5 man squads all have Power Weapons. =(

He isn't playing his marines correctly, not saying that genestealers aren't a toughy either. Model cheapness is a factor as well I'm sure. You have to think to fight the bugs. Always a good challenge.

bmoleski wrote:A lot of Blood Angels players I've encountered have the same delusions of grandeur! They seem to think that BA are the final say in CC

Had a nice encounter with a guy like that. He charged one of my Crusader Squads with sixteen assault marines and a priest and then said he thought Templars were good in CC. Next turn I charged my furious charge LC Terminators into both his squads. Hilarity ensued.

First off, there's no problem with "cheese". Good is good, it's a game about winning.

Second, you're absolutely right about genestealers. They are one of the most offensively powerful units in the game, especially for the cost and in the troop slot. However, t4, 5+ save and lack of grenades is really a huge blow to them. Have your friend run some units of devastators or something that can throw down some templates. Hell, even Flamers+bolt pistols will bring them down.

The way im seeing it, im not running cheese and that I was right calling genestealers glass hammers. These are friendly games so neither of us are trying to run win at all costs lists.

If your friend thinks this kind of BA list is "fluffy", he obviously hasn't read James Swallow's novels

This is a classic case of a player coming up against his army's anathema and blaming game balance. His army has access to deep striking landraiders and flying librarian dreadnoughts...and he's calling GENESTEALERS OP!?