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Made in gb
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver






I have a feeling that shootas and big shootas might go to rapid fire, but we might get a rule that says we can shoot rapid fire weapons and advance.

It would kiiind of fix the issue that big shootas have without drastically changing the profile or making it a HB clone.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Hmm.. true im sad he didnt get a sweep ability. He cant fly or anything so hes easy to get bogged down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A guy of FB said this is a misprint from 2020. Cant confirm nor verify if its correct. The thing about Ghaz that is. Said it was confirmed on discord? that it is NOT ghaz new stats. Again, cant confirm myself.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/11 21:21:12


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





damn, that sucks. Rapidfire on shootas and shoota equivalents would fix so many issues we have with infantry shootin.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Doesnt mean it couldnt happen though. Rapid fire shootas would be great.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






It would make kustom shootas on meganobz legitimately useful versus the tax they feel like they are right now. It was also be interesting to see the knock on effects of things like Dakkajets, Scrapjets, hell even guys like Killa Kanz to some extent.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Oh so we're seeing some of the simplified sheets coming out now? Heck yeah. The ghaz one is interesting, curious to see what other sheets come out, the more bread and butter units rather than a single character.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Oh so we're seeing some of the simplified sheets coming out now? Heck yeah. The ghaz one is interesting, curious to see what other sheets come out, the more bread and butter units rather than a single character.


Yeah, the main ones I'm interesting in seeing are Warbikerz to see how they'll hold up against the more CC-oriented beast snaggas as well as Lootas/Burnas to see if they're usable in the new edition.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Grimskul wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Oh so we're seeing some of the simplified sheets coming out now? Heck yeah. The ghaz one is interesting, curious to see what other sheets come out, the more bread and butter units rather than a single character.


Yeah, the main ones I'm interesting in seeing are Warbikerz to see how they'll hold up against the more CC-oriented beast snaggas as well as Lootas/Burnas to see if they're usable in the new edition.


It's weird because if you described to someone a warbiker as a fast, reasonably tough unit that can spit out 6 str 5 shots a model they'd be somewhat interested right? But then you realize they're orks, only two rounds will hit and they'll have garbage AP. Dunno how GW could improve them at this point. But would adore it if bikers were made viable. No I totally don't have enough to field 3 full squads, what do you mean?
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Oh so we're seeing some of the simplified sheets coming out now? Heck yeah. The ghaz one is interesting, curious to see what other sheets come out, the more bread and butter units rather than a single character.


Yeah, the main ones I'm interesting in seeing are Warbikerz to see how they'll hold up against the more CC-oriented beast snaggas as well as Lootas/Burnas to see if they're usable in the new edition.


It's weird because if you described to someone a warbiker as a fast, reasonably tough unit that can spit out 6 str 5 shots a model they'd be somewhat interested right? But then you realize they're orks, only two rounds will hit and they'll have garbage AP. Dunno how GW could improve them at this point. But would adore it if bikers were made viable. No I totally don't have enough to field 3 full squads, what do you mean?


Yeah, I feel there's a hugely missed opportunity with warbikerz since they really should be the outriders of an Ork force, the vanguard that scouts ahead alongside deffkoptas. I think giving them more of a focus on their mobility and "hit-and-run" style tactics would be a better focus and allow them to not overlap with the beast snaggas implied focus in hunting big things in CC. Giving them either a 6" pregame scouting move and having rapid fire for their dakkaguns could make them have interesting burst ranged damage. Or even giving them something along the lines of being able to flee D6" after shooting overwatch (meaning it costs 1 CP to activate their ability) would give them an interesting dynamic of wanting to get up close to the enemy to make the most of the rapid fire dakkaguns but at the same time having a measure of an escape route from being charged.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Honestly i'm not sure if orks getting rapid fire weapons is a good thing. A chunk of ork mobility is the ability to advance and charge, and having the ability to fire guns on the move is pretty valuable. We currently don't have any rapid fire weapons to my knowledge and it suits our faction and it's playstyle. Hell the few heavy weapons we have restrict a few tactics. I would love for the naughts to have assault weapons on their main gun, so I could use a bikerboss to let them run and charge, possibly even getting off a first turn charge with the right upgrades. Certainly a turn 2 charge.

But on bikers, yeah they're a unit with a lot of design flexibility. Maybe give them buffs for charging something already in engagement range to represent outflanking. Or yeah, reactionary stuff, you charge them they can make a move or something. Though a pregame move would be largely redundant IMO. They're a unit that can be pretty much wherever they want with the right builds.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Honestly i'm not sure if orks getting rapid fire weapons is a good thing. A chunk of ork mobility is the ability to advance and charge, and having the ability to fire guns on the move is pretty valuable. We currently don't have any rapid fire weapons to my knowledge and it suits our faction and it's playstyle. Hell the few heavy weapons we have restrict a few tactics. I would love for the naughts to have assault weapons on their main gun, so I could use a bikerboss to let them run and charge, possibly even getting off a first turn charge with the right upgrades. Certainly a turn 2 charge.

But on bikers, yeah they're a unit with a lot of design flexibility. Maybe give them buffs for charging something already in engagement range to represent outflanking. Or yeah, reactionary stuff, you charge them they can make a move or something. Though a pregame move would be largely redundant IMO. They're a unit that can be pretty much wherever they want with the right builds.


True. Though I assume that if the rapid fire changes are real that DDD! would have something to do with Orks treating them as if they were assault weapons if they advanced, otherwise I agree that it would be a sidegrade at best given the limitations of rapid fire for Ork units and how we don't have an equivalent to bolter discipline/doctrines to utilize it fully.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




North Carolina

I would love warbikers to be good.

The big question for me is what will happen to our Klan rules. I doubt DS goes unnerfed, but all of the other Klanz are in desperate need of buffs.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





what i want for blood axes is them to remove the cover bonus thingy, and instead change it to a bonus for falling back out of melee. Oftentimes its more worth it just to stay and fight i feel.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Honestly DS are the only klan that feels up to the current level of faction bonuses. It's the others that feel weak sometimes laughably so compared to the competition. But that is my opinion mind you.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Honestly DS are the only klan that feels up to the current level of faction bonuses. It's the others that feel weak sometimes laughably so compared to the competition. But that is my opinion mind you.


Definitely. You can definitely tell how many subfaction traits have aged poorly when nowadays it's basically standard to have at least 2 trait abilities while we have poor guys like Snakebitez, Bad Moonz, Goffs and Freebootas who basically only have one.

I'm hoping that the recent DE codex is a sign that the approach to subkulturs is to allow you to exchange up to two unit's klan keywords to the subkultur of your choice without disrupting the detachment's benefits for klan traits, etc. and you can only do this once per detachment to demonstrate the underlying subkulturs beneath each klan. This way, them being tailored to specific units is no longer a detriment and doesn't require you to build an entire detachment around while also preventing you from spamming said buffed units without CP.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





It's possible that i'm in the minority here but freebootaz is the only other one that feels up to scratch. And indeed I sort of feel it's one of the better designed traits out there full stop. A flat, good buff that requires you to do something to activate it. Maybe it could be improved by allowing non-freeboota units to let you kick it off. So if some badmoons kill something the freebootaz will want to show off rather than just feeling impotent apparently. It would better vibe with their feeling of one-upman(ork)ship that they're meant to represent.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Grimskul wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Oh so we're seeing some of the simplified sheets coming out now? Heck yeah. The ghaz one is interesting, curious to see what other sheets come out, the more bread and butter units rather than a single character.


Yeah, the main ones I'm interesting in seeing are Warbikerz to see how they'll hold up against the more CC-oriented beast snaggas as well as Lootas/Burnas to see if they're usable in the new edition.


Agree, warbikers and burnas are the two units most dire need of statline/weapon profile updates, though I'm still hoping that exhaust cloud comes back as a bespoke rule.

That said, I'd also be fine with exhaust cloud working like smoke screen, being able to react with -1 to hit still beats not having it T1/having to pay it in advance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote:
It's weird because if you described to someone a warbiker as a fast, reasonably tough unit that can spit out 6 str 5 shots a model they'd be somewhat interested right? But then you realize they're orks, only two rounds will hit and they'll have garbage AP. Dunno how GW could improve them at this point. But would adore it if bikers were made viable. No I totally don't have enough to field 3 full squads, what do you mean?


Dakka guns to rapid fire, +1A, -1 AP on choppas and a point drop to 18-20 points per model. And it's not even completely unreasonable to expect that to happen, since all melee-focused armies have gotten army-wide +1A and everyone with an actual close combat weapon has gotten at least -1 AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote:
Honestly DS are the only klan that feels up to the current level of faction bonuses. It's the others that feel weak sometimes laughably so compared to the competition. But that is my opinion mind you.


No, you are right. IMO they should just lift all other clans to DS level, not nerf DS.

If they nerf anything, I think the obvious thing to remove is ObSec, as it doesn't really fit the "lukky blue gitz" theme unlike the other two. If anyone should have obSec MANz, it should be badmoons.
The most awesome solution, of course, would be giving each clan's signature units obSec - bikers for evil suns, lootas and burnas for DS, MANz for bad moon, warbosses and nobz for goff, flash gits for freebootas, kommandoz for bloodaxes and those new squig riders for snakebites.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 07:18:34


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut






The most awesome solution, of course, would be giving each clan's signature units obSec - bikers for evil suns, lootas and burnas for DS, MANz for bad moon, warbosses and nobz for goff, flash gits for freebootas, kommandoz for bloodaxes and those new squig riders for snakebites.


Don't forget stormboyz for blood axez
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yeah because 6++ and reroll a single hit/wound/damage roll die itself is not gamebreakingly powerful. Technically neither is the obsec, though that is significant and i'd expect that to be cut back if not removed as well.

The only reason everyone uses deathskullz so much is because the other kultures are so pathetic by comparison, not that deathskullz is that ridiculous. I hate it when army-wide rules flatout dont even affect half the army, and not only does deathskullz not have that problem but its got better versions of it.

I mean, its pretty sad when the math to favor Badmoonz needs mroe than 12 shots to outshine Deathskullz when its the only thing they got in the first place, while Deathskullz' works in melee and have other perks too.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

The most awesome solution, of course, would be giving each clan's signature units obSec - bikers for evil suns, lootas and burnas for DS, MANz for bad moon, warbosses and nobz for goff, flash gits for freebootas, kommandoz for bloodaxes and those new squig riders for snakebites.


Don't forget stormboyz for blood axez


what? Stormboys as far as im aware, are not inherently Blood axes, Kommandos are.

Doesnt sound very stealthy to have a rocket strapped on your back. If anything i recall Stormboys being used in decent numbers by Goffs but i could be wrong about that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/13 09:49:18


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Bloodaxes aren't famous for their stealth, but for imitating human tactics. There is a fluff blurb somewhere that bloodaxes have more stormboyz because of that, but I still don't feel like they are a signature unit for them. If they had a signature unit outside of kommandoz, it would be looted wagons.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Beardedragon wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

The most awesome solution, of course, would be giving each clan's signature units obSec - bikers for evil suns, lootas and burnas for DS, MANz for bad moon, warbosses and nobz for goff, flash gits for freebootas, kommandoz for bloodaxes and those new squig riders for snakebites.


Don't forget stormboyz for blood axez


what? Stormboys as far as im aware, are not inherently Blood axes, Kommandos are.

Doesnt sound very stealthy to have a rocket strapped on your back. If anything i recall Stormboys being used in decent numbers by Goffs but i could be wrong about that.


Old fluff, Blood Axes besides being sneaky are notable for having a more structured command style and troop discipline - relatively speaking. The old fluff for Stormboyz was that they were typically rebellious yoofs, who in their attempts to go against the grain of Ork Kultur performed military drills and lived organized lives much in the style of human soldiers, which made them a natural fit for the more orderly Blood Axes.

That Stormboy fluff is totally gone though.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Yeah, it's also worth noting that most of the time when storm boyz appear as part of a Waaagh! in a campaign or novel they aren't bloodaxes, but goff.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





it also has to be noted that the biggest mek in the tabletop is a goff. Goffs are just the ork ultramarines. With their followin orders and such tho, they're definitely blood axes. It would also help people shift away from thinking blood axes are sneaky, to blood axes follow orders.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Beardedragon wrote:what? Stormboys as far as im aware, are not inherently Blood axes, Kommandos are.

Doesnt sound very stealthy to have a rocket strapped on your back. If anything i recall Stormboys being used in decent numbers by Goffs but i could be wrong about that.


Stormboyz have also been Khorne. Stormboyz were not initially "fly" troops of any form. They liked marching.

Jidmah wrote:Bloodaxes aren't famous for their stealth, but for imitating human tactics. There is a fluff blurb somewhere that bloodaxes have more stormboyz because of that, but I still don't feel like they are a signature unit for them. If they had a signature unit outside of kommandoz, it would be looted wagons.


Well Snikrot is a Blood Axe. And at the end of 4rd ed, beginning of 4th ed Andy Chambers released a PDF online that if you made your army Blood Axe Kommandos were Troops. Looted Wagons in this PDF were Death Skull. "purchased" or,.. well however an Ork would procure a Guard vehicle would be Blood Axe.

Jidmah wrote:Yeah, it's also worth noting that most of the time when storm boyz appear as part of a Waaagh! in a campaign or novel they aren't bloodaxes, but goff.


They like shinning them boots to a shiny black.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





If ya gitz don't think stormboyz are blood axe, just look at their second ed models lol.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in se
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter





 Jidmah wrote:
Bloodaxes aren't famous for their stealth, but for imitating human tactics. There is a fluff blurb somewhere that bloodaxes have more stormboyz because of that, but I still don't feel like they are a signature unit for them. If they had a signature unit outside of kommandoz, it would be looted wagons.
They are famous for both, but imitating 'Oomans (and being untrustworthy) was the first thing. They even accepted looted teef from battlefields as payment for merc activities in the service of the Imperium and whatnot. The Storm Boy thing is even later fluff though.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
it also has to be noted that the biggest mek in the tabletop is a goff. Goffs are just the ork ultramarines. With their followin orders and such tho, they're definitely blood axes. It would also help people shift away from thinking blood axes are sneaky, to blood axes follow orders.


I'm not talking about models though, but for example about the storm boyz mobs that Thrakka employed during the War of Armageddon. Due to their speed he used them to great effect in all sorts of supply line disruptions and sudden attacks out of nowhere. Almost all of those mobs were goff (including the one led by Zagstrukk), though I remember there being bad moons stormboyz as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Scactha wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Bloodaxes aren't famous for their stealth, but for imitating human tactics. There is a fluff blurb somewhere that bloodaxes have more stormboyz because of that, but I still don't feel like they are a signature unit for them. If they had a signature unit outside of kommandoz, it would be looted wagons.
They are famous for both, but imitating 'Oomans (and being untrustworthy) was the first thing. They even accepted looted teef from battlefields as payment for merc activities in the service of the Imperium and whatnot. The Storm Boy thing is even later fluff though.


As far as I understood, the sneaky stealthy part of kommadoz is also imitating humans, which employ such tactics against orks quite a lot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 11:02:50


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Sheridan, WY

TBH i hope that thraka datasheet was not his new one. I feel like he needs more of a buff than that to make him relevant again.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

As far as reddit goes, it isnt his new datasheet. But an old one that was made before the newest release of Ghaz was.. well released. So it was a pre-idea of how he should look.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/15 20:47:50


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
 
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