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2022/07/27 01:00:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskul wrote: Yeah, it's a shame it doesn't affect at least WALKERZ units too because Gork knows we need some love for the Dred Mob lists.
We just need a proper codex
I’d love to see a dread Waagh with a BigMek able to call it.
I still don’t know why we can’t have both a speedboss and warboss. How is this different then multiple doctrines or canticles or whatever. The limit is just dumb. Let me have a speedboss, warboss and mekboss.
Let me chose when to call each waaagh and only have 1 Waagh active at a time.
Let specialist mobs stack w kultur.. allow multiple units to become a specialist unit in the detachment but only 1 type of specialist mob per detachment.
Let a detachment have 1 free kustom job. And allow a Mek to let you choose a second free kustom job.
Orks would be much cooler with the ability to Customize units this way. Have characters become unit improving such as runtherders, meks, painboys, Waagh banner, nobs, spanners, etc..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/27 02:06:50
2022/07/27 09:37:27
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Orks are one of the few factions that dont lose rules with mixed clans between detachments so yes, Ghaz would have Goff rules and Freeboota detachment would have Freeboota rules.
It only breaks if you take non-exempted units in the Freeboota that arent Freeboota detachment specifically.
And of course that limits your relics/traits to Goff, and only Goff can equip them so nobody can use them except Ghaz himself (and Makari if you bring him, neither can use relics but do have traits). The non-clan specific stuff can still be used by the Freebootas though.
yea. well its sad to lose the infantry becomes obsec" stratagem from freebootas, but next to that its fine.
I just want to try out a normal speed mob list with vehicles, 30 grots and ghaz + a weirdboy for the option of going interrogate.
Im also toying a bit with the idea of 2x hunta rigs or kill rigs as distraction carnifexes next to my buggies and grot mega tanks
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/07/27 11:26:33
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
There really isn’t much of a reason to use huntarigs as they can’t adv and charge, have significantly worse damage potential and isn’t that much cheaper..
At best you want to avoid the extra character vp or don’t want to have a psyker in your list. But the increase capacity isn’t really useful either.
2022/07/27 11:30:03
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
A hunta rig also is the same price as a BW with fortress, which has better transport capacity and not locked into beastsnaggas.
Hunta rigs are just a solid 40 points above what they should cost.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/07/27 12:39:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: A hunta rig also is the same price as a BW with fortress, which has better transport capacity and not locked into beastsnaggas.
Hunta rigs are just a solid 40 points above what they should cost.
I’m still not sure what tut reasoning is for making it beastsnagga locked. It makes no sense.
To be fair ork keywords are a bit of a mess. Beastsnagga should have just been a keyword for buffs like the snakebite kultur.
2022/07/27 12:43:41
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: A hunta rig also is the same price as a BW with fortress, which has better transport capacity and not locked into beastsnaggas.
Hunta rigs are just a solid 40 points above what they should cost.
yea but i didnt want to have snagga boys inside the rigs in this case. Just purely as a distraction carnifex that deals good damage in melee.
And since im gonna call a waaagh (im assuming) by my turn 1 given that i have buggies and grot mega tanks, i didnt expect myself to be able to reach with an advance and charge anyway.
But i just kept the idea open for hunta rigs, i myself, is more inclined to use a kill rig too.
So something along the line of
Supreme detatchment with ghaz as goff
Outrider and potentially patrol with freebootas, 2 kill rigs to push enemies and draw fire, some grot mega tanks, buggies, wazboms, what ever combination of this that makes sense. and 30 grots, 10 to hold the backline, 20 to do good bits.
Maybe the idea of a kill rig distraction carnifex is silly when i put the points together, so i might remove it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/27 12:47:22
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/07/27 13:09:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yeah i initially thought the Hunta Rig was going to have different weapons, but its literally the same thing minus the Psyker part and what comes with that with a measily +5 transport capacity.
Thats nothing. I have no idea why it exists when its that drastically weaker for pennies less.
And its Beastsnagga locked because GW is stupid and thinks that will drive sales if they lock transports to certain units.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/07/27 13:34:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Giving the hunta an additional rule will go a long way. As happens with the Bonebreaker, which has the same equip options as the battlewagon but has an extra rule for it.
Also, increase cap to 20, to carry a full blob of snaggas would differenciate it.
It still bugs me the anomalous and forced racism between snaggas and the rest of the boys. Doc's rules are a fine example
2022/07/27 16:59:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote: Giving the hunta an additional rule will go a long way. As happens with the Bonebreaker, which has the same equip options as the battlewagon but has an extra rule for it.
Also, increase cap to 20, to carry a full blob of snaggas would differenciate it.
It still bugs me the anomalous and forced racism between snaggas and the rest of the boys. Doc's rules are a fine example
It's pretty much them copy-pasting the issues and divisions created between PRIMARIS and Firstborn marines when it comes to Primaris only tanks being able to carry Primaris while Land Raiders and Drop Pods can't carry Primaris. It's needless silo-ing of units because of GW's bizarre design philosophy of restricting subfactions to themselves.
2022/07/27 17:12:56
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Its a restriction that would make sense for starships, because the docking clamps werent compatible or something.
But for people literally standing on a platform holding onto a handle or sitting in a seat it makes 0 sense.
I actually wonder if Primaris marines would get an unusual boost in threat if they axed that restriction. I know for orks right now its extremely annoying because no shooty units allowed in the killrig.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/07/27 18:27:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I mean I kinda understood primarus because it felt like they wanted to discontinue first born marines and force people to buy new primarus stuff…
But they literally made a brand new ork boy box… I mean things like painboss only working on beastsnagga makes no sense ffs mad doc is a painboss!!, kill/huntarig being beastsnagga only transport when ork boys should be slightly smaller makes no sense. Just needless restrictions on the ork codex like the warboss/speedboss change. I actually hope for a 10th Ed soon so they can try to fix our codex which is one of the worst written books… so many mistakes…
2022/07/27 22:12:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I don't want to be a doomsayer, but what makes you think that the same four rules writers who have not cared about ork rules at all for the last ten years will suddenly sit down and passionately work on delivering the best they can?
At this point, I'm not sure I want a next codex at all.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/07/27 23:33:03
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I really don't think our codex is that bad. Couple of varied options (especially now that freebootas are back on the menu) that can be seen popping up on goonhammers weekly break down.
I think we're currently in a well balanced spot which is amazing considering how many moving parts there are in 9th edition.
Our secondaries are quality, our characters are good, the waagh/great waaagh is actually good now. The famine of CP these days plays well with us because we don't have many strats to use them on.
Art of war have just released a full Ork unit tier list which is a good watch. As with all advice take it with a pinch of salt but the analysis is pretty high quality as one would expect from the AoW team.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I get they made mistakes but none of them are game/army ruining.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/27 23:33:45
2022/07/27 23:34:23
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: I don't want to be a doomsayer, but what makes you think that the same four rules writers who have not cared about ork rules at all for the last ten years will suddenly sit down and passionately work on delivering the best they can?
At this point, I'm not sure I want a next codex at all.
It feels like they are starting to get better idea of what to do… 9th edition had a lot of changes in how it’s played to score more like the tournament scene and that changed the way the game played and what units were good.
I mean I don’t really like their constant 1 upmanship in rules writing. Armor save<AP, invul><ignore invuls, fnp><mortal wounds><mortal wound save, wound cap><ignore wound cap…. Etc etc
The way codex are designed it’s always the next codex that more powerful
Then last..
But I think they are getting better nephilim was a decent attempt to patch the mess… >
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote: I really don't think our codex is that bad. Couple of varied options (especially now that freebootas are back on the menu) that can be seen popping up on goonhammers weekly break down.
I think we're currently in a well balanced spot which is amazing considering how many moving parts there are in 9th edition.
Our secondaries are quality, our characters are good, the waagh/great waaagh is actually good now. The famine of CP these days plays well with us because we don't have many strats to use them on.
Art of war have just released a full Ork unit tier list which is a good watch. As with all advice take it with a pinch of salt but the analysis is pretty high quality as one would expect from the AoW team.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I get they made mistakes but none of them are game/army ruining.
Technically I agree ork datasheets as a whole aren’t bad..
Main ork codex issues:
Moral is huge problem and kills greentide
Strats are way overpriced and majority suck
unneeded restriction on options and units…(kustom jobs, specialist mobs, warboss/speedboss limit, buggy limit, beastsnagga nonsense, the entire Dakka profile is just unneeded should have just stayed assault, rokkits should have stayed assault, burnas kept thier melee profile) I still don’t know why they took slot of unit abilities and just made them overpriced Strats like breaking heads for 2cp!!!!
Fix those and most datasheets are fine
Walkers could also use an army wide buff so dreadmob is good again.. but walkers are mostly bad in all armies…still wouldn’t mind a dread Waagh ability on big meks or mekboss.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/27 23:44:26
2022/07/28 01:51:08
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: I really don't think our codex is that bad. Couple of varied options (especially now that freebootas are back on the menu) that can be seen popping up on goonhammers weekly break down.
I think we're currently in a well balanced spot which is amazing considering how many moving parts there are in 9th edition.
Our secondaries are quality, our characters are good, the waagh/great waaagh is actually good now. The famine of CP these days plays well with us because we don't have many strats to use them on.
Art of war have just released a full Ork unit tier list which is a good watch. As with all advice take it with a pinch of salt but the analysis is pretty high quality as one would expect from the AoW team.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I get they made mistakes but none of them are game/army ruining.
I also took a look on Art of War tier list.
At most was not surprised with best pick except Bigmek in mega armor.
To them big mek in mega armour is overpriced with KFF. But normal big mek with KFF is top tier.
I also finally might have a match soon, going to test out squig buggies and nob on smash squig. Bit surprised many people haven't tried out double nob on smash squig. It averages 5MW on charge and if you destroy unit there is a stratagem to charge again, you can, if you set it up, zip through the lines to the back with around 36inch threat range?! I think that is what they mention.
My game will be casual and mostly to teach a new bro. But i will still try and see how they work in like a 1000pts game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/28 02:08:14
2022/07/28 05:52:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
MADRID GT (60 players, 8 rounds) - Alberto Nicolas – Orks – 3rd Place
Blood Axe modification of Goff lists with Bestboss on Saur, deouble detach, double killrig, double trukk, double squighog and tons of small infantry. Interesting!
Very typical heavy goff list with ghazzy with double wazboom, triple squighog, deffdread and MANs and all other typical stuff.
Spoiler:
Note: Assuming this is over-points because it was in the window where Kustom Jobs didn’t have a cost listed. RIP to that.
++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Orks) [98 PL, 1CP, 1,789pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Clan Kultur: Goffs
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim
+ HQ +
Painboss [5 PL, -2CP, 80pts]: 2. Big Gob, Power Snappa, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz, Super Cybork Body
I also took a look on Art of War tier list.
At most was not surprised with best pick except Bigmek in mega armor.
To them big mek in mega armour is overpriced with KFF. But normal big mek with KFF is top tier.
The reasoning they gave is fine, though.
Basically you're paying 30 points for something you're already oversaturated on -- Klaws. The Big Mek kind of sucks in combat even with all the extra trimmings, and if you want to make it better you need to CP dump into it which isn't really the best place to put relics and WLTs.
85 points for the reactive 5++ KFF though is still worth considering, as after it pops off, it can camp your home objective. Just spend those 30 points on a separate mega nob or something instead, which is probably just better overall.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/28 15:45:51
2022/07/28 16:09:49
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Singleton Mosby wrote: What is the consensus on the Blood axes "benifts from light conver trait" when it comes to vehicles. Do they benefit or not?
Are you you talking about their klan trait of being outside of 18" of enemy shooting considered being in light cover? Because yes? There's no keyword or unit type distinction when it comes to this.
2022/07/28 16:41:41
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Singleton Mosby wrote: What is the consensus on the Blood axes "benifts from light conver trait" when it comes to vehicles. Do they benefit or not?
Are you you talking about their klan trait of being outside of 18" of enemy shooting considered being in light cover? Because yes? There's no keyword or unit type distinction when it comes to this.
Yes, that's what I meant. A mate said vehicles don't benefit, but I can't find why they shouldn't.
Singleton Mosby wrote: What is the consensus on the Blood axes "benifts from light conver trait" when it comes to vehicles. Do they benefit or not?
Are you you talking about their klan trait of being outside of 18" of enemy shooting considered being in light cover? Because yes? There's no keyword or unit type distinction when it comes to this.
Yes, that's what I meant. A mate said vehicles don't benefit, but I can't find why they shouldn't.
Your mate is talking out his backside, it hasn't ever been that way for Orks, the only time there was a distinction between traits for vehicles and non-vehicles was the old chapter tactics rules for marines for their first release back in 8th ed and I believe for CSM as well. I guess IG do too to some extent, but it's basically a 8th ed holdover that never applied to Orks.
2022/07/28 16:51:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Even in oldschool 40k, Vehicles have never been explicitly denied cover.
Theyve been denied being granted cover from certain sources such as area terrain, but never "If its cover, thats a no"
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/07/28 20:53:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: MADRID GT (60 players, 8 rounds) - Alberto Nicolas – Orks – 3rd Place
Blood Axe modification of Goff lists with Bestboss on Saur, deouble detach, double killrig, double trukk, double squighog and tons of small infantry. Interesting!
Yes, that's what I meant. A mate said vehicles don't benefit, but I can't find why they shouldn't.
Ah , your mate is confusing with the Terrain features (which can't provide light cover to vehicle). But there is no rule that says vehicles can't get light cover from other means.
Just look at the specialist mob Flyboyz: this specialism wouldn't make sense if vehicle can't benefit cover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/29 05:22:05
2022/07/29 09:12:54
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yes, that's what I meant. A mate said vehicles don't benefit, but I can't find why they shouldn't.
Ah , your mate is confusing with the Terrain features (which can't provide light cover to vehicle). But there is no rule that says vehicles can't get light cover from other means.
Just look at the specialist mob Flyboyz: this specialism wouldn't make sense if vehicle can't benefit cover.
Providing ork rules as a measure of something making sense or not ain't the most convincing move ever. Considering stuff like trukkboyz that couldn't have used trukks till the recent errata.
2022/07/31 04:39:21
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
The kans we're pretty nice to march up the center with ghaz and try and proc +1 with their rl. Probably would drop makari next time since he can only fnp ghaz and then maybe another kan so I can take a bm kff or sag.
Also it might be because I play against mostly imperium but I have been fairly underwhelmed by the squig buggies in comparison to the scrapjets and dragstas. Poking out of los with the heavy squig launcher is nice but it never really amounts to anything meaningful and then bringing it up close it's decent but I feel like I'd rather just have a full squad of deffkoptas at that point.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2022/07/31 06:46:45
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
The kans we're pretty nice to march up the center with ghaz and try and proc +1 with their rl. Probably would drop makari next time since he can only fnp ghaz and then maybe another kan so I can take a bm kff or sag.
Also it might be because I play against mostly imperium but I have been fairly underwhelmed by the squig buggies in comparison to the scrapjets and dragstas. Poking out of los with the heavy squig launcher is nice but it never really amounts to anything meaningful and then bringing it up close it's decent but I feel like I'd rather just have a full squad of deffkoptas at that point.
Was ghaz worth it for freebootas? If I get it right, you loose the ability to take clan relics. Also, he only buffs goffs.
Were kanz any good in your list? Were 15 pt rokkits worth it? I've never had success with kan rokkits. They're slow and got to advance to reach combat t2. Also, 50pt is a bit too much for what you get out of them. Regular 35 pt bigahootas or 40pt skorchas were feeling better in my games. Also, I try not to get more than 3 cause of morale issues. You can't break heads and 2pts to save a kan is stiff.
Squigbuggies have always been disappointing in my games. Even at their prime. What about dragstas? In my experience, scrap jets are just the best overall. Best shooting, best mellee, 9 wounds. Well worth 100 pts.
How were the 2 blastajets doing? I'm about to buy 2 from a tourney player who stopped running orks after the nerfs (basically, a month after release) and switched to necrons. I'm running goffs, tho. So, not sure jets are worth it for how much they cost. But maybe next edition... Might run a bomber tho!
2022/07/31 17:51:24
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Was ghaz worth it for freebootas? If I get it right, you loose the ability to take clan relics. Also, he only buffs goffs.
ghaz was worth it for the 5++ and attack/strength buff on all the vehicles I'd say. At first I was gonna take a deffkilla but then I'd feel obligated to take a kff big mek I feel like, so at that point I figured I met as well spend an extra 90pts for a much better beat stick and the attack/strength buff from waaagh. I'll probably experiment next time with a non ghaz version though and see how it compares.
Were kanz any good in your list? Were 15 pt rokkits worth it? I've never had success with kan rokkits. They're slow and got to advance to reach combat t2. Also, 50pt is a bit too much for what you get out of them. Regular 35 pt bigahootas or 40pt skorchas were feeling better in my games. Also, I try not to get more than 3 cause of morale issues. You can't break heads and 2pts to save a kan is stiff.
It was hard to tell from this match since my mate was playing aggressively and they only got one turn of shooting before being tied up in cc the rest of the game. They did manage to pluck the last couple of wounds off a storm raven in turn 1 so not completely useless. More than likely skorchas would be a better investment I'd think. Overall though I was happy with them and was able to fend off a strike squad and champion that had multicharged them.
Squigbuggies have always been disappointing in my games. Even at their prime. What about dragstas? In my experience, scrap jets are just the best overall. Best shooting, best mellee, 9 wounds. Well worth 100 pts.
ya I think I'm gonna pass on the squigbuggies next time around. Dragstas are fantastic imo. 85pts and can get a 2+ bs shock rifle, 14" move, could possibly redeploy if your opponent leaves their backfield open, and decent in cc.
How were the 2 blastajets doing? I'm about to buy 2 from a tourney player who stopped running orks after the nerfs (basically, a month after release) and switched to necrons. I'm running goffs, tho. So, not sure jets are worth it for how much they cost. But maybe next edition... Might run a bomber tho!
Wazboms have pretty much always put out the most damage in all the games I've run with them. I've ran one in a goff pressure list too, also against grey knights, and it basically one shot a dk turn 1. ymmv on that one since it's gonna be getting most, if not all, your opponents AT if there's no other decent targets in your army. Burna bombers I think would be a great choice for goffs though, especially against those players that castle 4-5 units behind one ruin
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
9500p fullpaint orks ready to krump!
