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Dragon Age 2 is generally recognized as being mediocre at best and being inferior even to the contrived and poorly written Dragon Age, which while a decent game, was not nearly on par with their earlier work.

Mass Effect 3's ending has caused one of the biggest backlashes against a developer of the past 10 years. It's up there with the recent failures of Square Enix concerning their linear game play and absolute and utter failure of an MMO. FFXIV had by far the worst launch of any MMORPG by a major developer.

Star Wars The Old Republic is renowned for having solid voice acting and for most classes excellent storylines. However, PvP is horribly imbalanced (it makes so called faction imblances in WoW laughable), endgame is nonexistent, and for every excellent zone (for example Imperial Balmorra) there is an eye gouging one (Taris).

Their last hands down great game was Mass Effect 2 and they were once frequently cited as being as a premier RPG developer. Personally, I think their reputation is slowly being proven to be undeserved (as is true for many game developers).

I personally dislike Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2. I don't care for the party system, I don't find the stories or characters particularly interesting, and I loathe the graphics. I found Arcanum much more enjoyable to play than my attempts to play through BG/BG2. That said, I can understand why people enjoy those games and how they paved the way for better RPGs.

Neverwinter Nights is widely overrated. Aside from character creation, it is bad and I can't not understand how I managed to tolerate as long as I did. I will give it this much, the combat was tolerable and the character creation was excellent. Sadly, mods for the game were frequently more inspired and interesting than the MQ, which is really quite sad.

The worst part of the game were the graphics, which were a massive step backward from Baldur's Gate 2. It was fairly obvious that staying with 2D would have been wiser for the game. For comparison, Morrowind, released only a month later, had vastly superior graphics and (along with Daggerfall), the best MQ out of any of the Elder Scrolls games. Both of those games also managed to avoid stereotypical fantasy storytelling that many games fall trap to (Dragon's Age, NWN MQ).

KotOR was simply genius. They outdid Lucas at his own game and it was the first excellent Star Wars story of any kind since the Thrawn Trilogy in my opinion. Despite that many people, myself included, consider the sequel by Obsidian Entertainment to be better than the original. That is not to say the majority do, but their is a significant minority that feel that way.

Jade Empire was good, not great and certainly good enough for me to be interested in a sequel if one was released.

Mass Effect had serious gameplay and graphics issues (for some reason ME2 runs better than the original for me /shrug), but was still a solid scifi rpg.

And I've already discussed their three latest releases.



It just seems to me that the general quality of their games has been decreasing. The only game they've released since KotOR that I would consider on par with it would be Mass Effect 2. Deekin (despite NWN being meh) is superior to any character from Dragon Age. Since 2005 they've released one great game (ME2), three decent games, one game slammed for its poor writing, another slammed for being crap, and an MMO that has already lost half of its initial subscribers (just way until the next quarterly report comes out).



It's really saddening in a way, but not that big of a deal. A year ago the future of RPGs looked great. Now DA2, ME3, and Skyrim are out and their predecessors are still considered better.

Well at least Skyrim is better than Oblivion. Daggerfall and Morrowind still reign supreme.

If I had to guess.....


I think they are trying too hard to make their games Action Oriented to appease today's customers, who don't really want anything BUT action oriented. But I don't honestly think it's just Bioware.

I mean, look at Splinter Cell multiplayer, the old ones were patient "Merc against Spies", where as the new one is all that Mark and Execute bullgak.

Electronic Arts bought the universally-loved Maxis and proceeded to drive their beloved The Sims and classic Sim City into oblivion. They're currently working on a day-1 DLC-laden $60 iteration of Sim City.

Electronic Arts bought the universally-loved (even if you were a Starcraft fan) Westwood and proceeded to drive their awesome Command & Conquer franchise into oblivion. EA's C&CGenerals was a Starcraft wannabe, C&C:RA3 was just stupid camp, and C&C4 was universally panned by everyone. Bioware is currently working on C&C:Generals2, likely to be a Starcraft 2 wannabe.

Electronic Arts bought the cream-of-the-crop Bioware with the classic Baldur's Gate and the awesome Neverwinter Nights. They proceeded to take the spiritual successor to BG and NWN into action game genericness after they lost the D&D license. They proceeded to take the Star Wars franchise into a dull MMO and an okay Mass Effect game after they also lost the D&D license (KOTOR was based on Wizards's Star Wars d20).

Essentially, EA ruins everything it touches.

As an aside, if you want storyline in a Bioware game, go to Planescape Torment and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer.

Nope, Bethesda is doing it as well and everyone knows D3 is going to suck.

Planescape Torment is an Interplay game and Mask of the Betrayer is from Obsidian...

Is EA behind the X-Com remake?

And I wouldn't say Dead Space is ruined.

I meant Diablo 3 is going to be gak.

Oh, sorry, that post was directed at Abs.

Absolutionis wrote:Electronic Arts bought the universally-loved Maxis and proceeded to drive their beloved The Sims and classic Sim City into oblivion. They're currently working on a day-1 DLC-laden $60 iteration of Sim City.

Electronic Arts bought the universally-loved (even if you were a Starcraft fan) Westwood and proceeded to drive their awesome Command & Conquer franchise into oblivion. EA's C&CGenerals was a Starcraft wannabe, C&C:RA3 was just stupid camp, and C&C4 was universally panned by everyone. Bioware is currently working on C&C:Generals2, likely to be a Starcraft 2 wannabe.

Electronic Arts bought the cream-of-the-crop Bioware with the classic Baldur's Gate and the awesome Neverwinter Nights. They proceeded to take the spiritual successor to BG and NWN into action game genericness after they lost the D&D license. They proceeded to take the Star Wars franchise into a dull MMO and an okay Mass Effect game after they also lost the D&D license (KOTOR was based on Wizards's Star Wars d20).

Essentially, EA ruins everything it touches.

As an aside, if you want storyline in a Bioware game, go to Planescape Torment and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer.

This. Althought I'll point out EA had no hand in KotOR (which was awesome not dull!) and didn't actually aquire Bioware until AFTER Mass Effect released. They wanted to make more ME games while Bioware only wanted to make one. EA replied "Tough gak we own you know make more Mass Effect games!"

Pardon me, I meant to say they took the Star Wars license that Bioware already had and proceeded to make it into a dull MMO. When they lost the license with Wizards' d20, they made Mass Effect, which was actually rather okay.

Mass Effect 2 was possibly the only pretty good thing Bioware or any EA-owned developer has made.

Ah my apologies.

Absolutionis wrote:Mass Effect 2 was possibly the only pretty good thing Bioware or any EA-owned developer has made.

Only if you ignore Dead Space, Brutal Legend, Battlefield.....

Two of those are highly popular mainstream games, one of them is a cult classic.

Neverwinter Nights bad!? Them's fighting words! Also I'd have to disagree with your Diablo 3 prediction, nearly all of their changes have been rather smart IMO.

asimo77 wrote:Neverwinter Nights bad!? Them's fighting words! Also I'd have to disagree with your Diablo 3 prediction, nearly all of their changes have been rather smart IMO.

Indeed, Neverwinter Nights owned.

As did NWN2.

Mass Effect 3 has multiplayer and it owns. As for the ending, you're talking about something that was leaked, then cried over by people who haven't played the game. Then you're comparing it to MMOs??? I don't even know what's going on.

Clearly you have judged the game based on the hype. I don't see how ME3 is any worse than 2, unless you site an ending you've never played.

Edit: What sort of gamer are you that you would read the ending to a series you like, before playing it?
Or are you just going by hearsay?

I thought Bioware was overrated before it was cool!

For the record I actually enjoyed Mass Effect 1, before they pulled out all the traditional RPG elements (lots of weapons and armors an upgrade system that actually mattered) and reduced a series that had potential to another third person shooter.

Swtor is ok but has some pretty big story related issues that need addressing.

For instance, there are no quests for characters other than your starting character. Oh there are conversations that you receive exp for, but no quests that actually have you do anything. The typical companion quest in swtor goes like this.

Companion; hay guy! Can I talk to you about something?

Me; Sure thing!

Companion; Remember that hutt I who crossed me before I met you? I told you about him last time we talked.

Me; Oh yea, feth that worm!

Companion; Well I’m thinking its time for some payback

Me; damn straight!

Companion; It’s going to be tough, his palace is a floating skyfortress crawling with guards and beutifull naked alien chicks

Me; Oh baby I’m there! When do we leave?

Companion; We? There is no we, I’m doing this alone

*companion walks offscreen and fade to black, there isn’t even a cutsceen*
*unfades and companion walks back into frame*

Companion; Well I’m back

Me; Oh hi, did everything go alright

Companion; Oh yeah I stormed his doom fortress killed every last guard with my bare hands and sexed all the hot slaves before dropping the hutt into a space tapeworms mouth and riding off into the sunset

Me; gee, wish I could have been there

Companion; yeah, it was really fun

*Fade to black*
*Companion quest completed! Take your 10K exp!*

I am not kidding^ this is a barely exaggerated conversation I had with one of my Bounty Hunter companions, and this isn’t the only example, only the most egregious one.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I thought Bioware was overrated before it was cool!

For the record I actually enjoyed Mass Effect 1, before they pulled out all the traditional RPG elements (lots of weapons and armors an upgrade system that actually mattered) and reduced a series that had potential to another third person shooter.

Swtor is ok but has some pretty big story related issues that need addressing.

For instance, there are no quests for characters other than your starting character. Oh there are conversations that you receive exp for, but no quests that actually have you do anything. The typical companion quest in swtor goes like this.

Companion; hay guy! Can I talk to you about something?

Me; Sure thing!

Companion; Remember that hutt I who crossed me before I met you? I told you about him last time we talked.

Me; Oh yea, feth that worm!

Companion; Well I’m thinking its time for some payback

Me; damn straight!

Companion; It’s going to be tough, his palace is a floating skyfortress crawling with guards and beutifull naked alien chicks

Me; Oh baby I’m there! When do we leave?

Companion; We? There is no we, I’m doing this alone

*companion walks offscreen and fade to black, there isn’t even a cutsceen*
*unfades and companion walks back into frame*

Companion; Well I’m back

Me; Oh hi, did everything go alright

Companion; Oh yeah I stormed his doom fortress killed every last guard with my bare hands and sexed all the hot slaves before dropping the hutt into a space tapeworms mouth and riding off into the sunset

Me; gee, wish I could have been there

Companion; yeah, it was really fun

*Fade to black*
*Companion quest completed! Take your 10K exp!*

I am not kidding^ this is a barely exaggerated conversation I had with one of my Bounty Hunter companions, and this isn’t the only example, only the most egregious one.

Damn that is awsome...if it where a MMORPG, I just stared playing DDO and I love it. I haul ass through dungeon's.

For a single player game not so fun.

Ma55ter_Fett:

As of right now, your first companion(Mako, in your case) when you reach a certain level of Affection will actually have a quest line that you will do.

You have to suffer through the random dialogue of "Hey, how ya doin?"--but the primary companion does give a quest chain around 50-60% Affection.

Plus, acquiring many of the companions in TOR is a pretty hefty chain in and of itself. The mission for the Agent to acquire Ensign Temple is particularly obnoxious.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I thought Bioware was overrated before it was cool!

For the record I actually enjoyed Mass Effect 1, before they pulled out all the traditional RPG elements (lots of weapons and armors an upgrade system that actually mattered) and reduced a series that had potential to another third person shooter.

Swtor is ok but has some pretty big story related issues that need addressing.

For instance, there are no quests for characters other than your starting character. Oh there are conversations that you receive exp for, but no quests that actually have you do anything. The typical companion quest in swtor goes like this.

Companion; hay guy! Can I talk to you about something?

Me; Sure thing!

Companion; Remember that hutt I who crossed me before I met you? I told you about him last time we talked.

Me; Oh yea, feth that worm!

Companion; Well I’m thinking its time for some payback

Me; damn straight!

Companion; It’s going to be tough, his palace is a floating skyfortress crawling with guards and beutifull naked alien chicks

Me; Oh baby I’m there! When do we leave?

Companion; We? There is no we, I’m doing this alone

*companion walks offscreen and fade to black, there isn’t even a cutsceen*
*unfades and companion walks back into frame*

Companion; Well I’m back

Me; Oh hi, did everything go alright

Companion; Oh yeah I stormed his doom fortress killed every last guard with my bare hands and sexed all the hot slaves before dropping the hutt into a space tapeworms mouth and riding off into the sunset

Me; gee, wish I could have been there

Companion; yeah, it was really fun

*Fade to black*
*Companion quest completed! Take your 10K exp!*

I am not kidding^ this is a barely exaggerated conversation I had with one of my Bounty Hunter companions, and this isn’t the only example, only the most egregious one.

Damn that is awsome...if it where a MMORPG, I just stared playing DDO and I love it. I haul ass through dungeon's.

For a single player game not so fun.

I'm not sure if I know that you know what I'm talking about.

Swtor is an MMORPG

And what I was describing is not awesome, instead of going on cool adventures with your companions they go off by themselves and just tell you about it afterwards.

I've never played DDO, I think the install process gave me the run around and I got fed up and gave up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Ma55ter_Fett:

As of right now, your first companion(Mako, in your case) when you reach a certain level of Affection will actually have a quest line that you will do.

You have to suffer through the random dialogue of "Hey, how ya doin?"--but the primary companion does give a quest chain around 50-60% Affection.

Plus, acquiring many of the companions in TOR is a pretty hefty chain in and of itself. The mission for the Agent to acquire Ensign Temple is particularly obnoxious.

I am aware of that

A very good looking chap whose legacy name is Fett wrote:

For instance, there are no quests for characters other than your starting character

In hindsight I should have substituted "character" for "companion" but this is midnight dakka, and I am seldom coherent when I post on midnight dakka.

While the quests needed to acquire a companion character are pretty good, its what comes after you have recruited them that I find disappointing. the character development comes to a screeching halt.

Amaya wrote:
Star Wars The Old Republic is renowned for having solid voice acting and for most classes excellent storylines. However, PvP is horribly imbalanced (it makes so called faction imblances in WoW laughable), endgame is nonexistent, and for every excellent zone (for example Imperial Balmorra) there is an eye gouging one (Taris).

Actually, as far as them being an RPG Developer goes, this is a plus. They had not really gotten in to the MMO market before and it is not as bad as people say. I enjoyed Taris(Republic) and hated Balmorra. As for losing subscribers, I think they just announced they have had 2million subscribers now. Was a very recent announcement with their guild summit. Hardly a failure.

I agree with Jade Empire, not a fantastic game, but it was very interesting with the story and I would like to see another. Their spirit realms were a lot of fun.

I really musta missed that.

Anyways, they've said that the other characters are going to have quests--but not when they will be implemented.

Kanluwen wrote:I really musta missed that.

Anyways, they've said that the other characters are going to have quests--but not when they will be implemented.

No worries, as I said I am less than coherent.

It will be too late for me I am afraid.

After a few really busy weeks during which I had no time to play I found that I had no wish to go back.

Maybe after the next big story orintated content update

Melissia wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Neverwinter Nights bad!? Them's fighting words! Also I'd have to disagree with your Diablo 3 prediction, nearly all of their changes have been rather smart IMO.

Indeed, Neverwinter Nights owned.

As did NWN2.

Agreed.

NWN1 was more about it's toolset, than the MQ. The MQ wasn't that good, but it's the toolset that caused me to spend endless hours in that game.

NWN2, is the opposite. I loved the Storyline, and companions (Neeshka!) but the Toolset was way too complicated.

Absolutionis wrote:Essentially, EA ruins everything it touches.

This +1. I'd also say it applies to Mass Effect 2 - perhaps not the middle part of the game, but the fundamental plotline:



I loved Mass Effect 1. I followed Mass Effect 2 through Shamus Young's Lets Plays. For Mass Effect 3 and any future Bioware games, I probably won't bother.

I think the issue is EA in general. The made companies suck WAY before the got their gnarled claws into Bioware. They made Origin suck when they made Ultima 7 Serpent Isle. I haven't played ME 3 yet so I can't give my opinion on that, but SW was a let down. I really just see EA driving them into the ground to make a buck then discarding the used husk of a once great company.

All I can say is....CNC, the once proud franchise which is now a shattered lifeless husk.

It all went to crap IMo when they decided to take away from the intricately crafted isometric maps in bladurs gate in order to make NWN 3D. Something which took a hell of a lot more away from the game than it ever gave to it, which was very little.

Absolutionis wrote:Electronic Arts bought the universally-loved Maxis and proceeded to drive their beloved The Sims and classic Sim City into oblivion. They're currently working on a day-1 DLC-laden $60 iteration of Sim City.

The Sims was released long after EA bought maxis.

The best estimates by the community are that SWToR is at less than 800,000 subs right now. 2 million was the peak. XFire played time for SWToR has dropped by more than 50%.
The game will probably drop down to 250-500k subs and hover around there. Not a success considering the development cost.

Only thing that could get me to come back is if I could level to cap just doing class storyline quests.

ifStatement wrote:It all went to crap IMo when they decided to take away from the intricately crafted isometric maps in bladurs gate in order to make NWN 3D. Something which took a hell of a lot more away from the game than it ever gave to it, which was very little.

Not sure if it contributed to Bioware becoming crap but this is very true - I loathed (and still do) NWN; it really is a shadow of former glories. Also, after all the loading screen tips in BG2 announcing that you would be able to use your character in NWN, they then decided not to implement it!

Now I don't know much about this Mass Effect stuff, but I saw the end and I can imagine myself giggling like a maniac as I blow up the Earth. This whole Reaper business looked interesting but why is it such a big deal that you die at the end? The game's over. You don't miss on anything.

That's just one ending, without context; furthermore, people don't like it when you don't have an ending that is the omgwtfbest ending you can ever possibly get.