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Dear All

I thought people may wish to know this information but I was having a chat with a friend in a different research group to yours truly at uni. Both being ardent fans of 40K and fantasy, we chat everyday about battles. models and the such. However what he told me yesterday did shock me in all fairness! He did a specific type of test on two super glues; Loctite and GW's own brand. The test revealed that the loctite glue had around 70-80% of the active ingredient cyanoacrylate whilst the GW brand had approximatley 30%!!!!

This data therefore shows that the GW brand is mostly made of water and a few chemical compounds which do not aid in the gluing process! This reminded me of a situation concerning GW super glue and a commission I was doing. The commission was an expansive amount of Grey Knights and I had a purifier in my hand when I dropped it onto the floor. The mini was glued using GW's super glue and everything that could come off did - head, torso (into two pieces), arms, weapons, backpack and shoulder pads - everything went skidding across the floor! I normally use loctite are another brand, but I was shocked (until now) how the mini just split into every glued part it could!

Anyways just thought that some might like to know this!
Cheers
Andy

Not surprising, it's been best to avoid all their glues for a fair while, though it's interesting to find out about it.

Their superglue always was always terrible. And I mean; T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E.

Also Loctite is irish :-) Woo!

How does the loctite product dispense the glue - is it a brush or just a thin nozzle? I've seen videos of model builders from Japan using glue with an ultra-thin brush tip, like the size of a GW detail brush; I want in on that!

As for plastic glue my Revell stuff has lasted me many years, eight model battleships, plenty of warhammer minis and still seems to be over half full ( and that is with quite a lot of waste from clearing the needle-nozzle); definitely recommend it.

RossDas wrote:How does the loctite product dispense the glue - is it a brush or just a thin nozzle? I've seen videos of model builders from Japan using glue with an ultra-thin brush tip, like the size of a GW detail brush; I want in on that!

As for plastic glue my Revell stuff has lasted me many years, eight model battleships, plenty of warhammer minis and still seems to be over half full ( and that is with quite a lot of waste from clearing the needle-nozzle); definitely recommend it.

I haven't found it online, but a buddy of mine has a bottle of Testor's Superglue that has a tip that is smaller than the GW fine detail brush.

I would like to see specific research and results, rather than...

a friend in a different research group to yours truly at uni.

He did a specific type of test on two super glues

mostly made of water and a few chemical compounds which do not aid in the gluing process!

Thanks.

Good to know!

We-we-wait, it has water? Isn't water the catalyst of cyanoacrylates? Wouldn't it harden the glue itself? I mean, if trace amounts of it is enough to trigger the bonding process, wouldn't water on the superglue itself makes it unusable?

30% CA
65% Water
5% 'chemical compounds which do not aid in the gluing process'

100% bs GW bashing.

AG. wrote:I would like to see specific research and results, rather than...

a friend in a different research group to yours truly at uni.

He did a specific type of test on two super glues

mostly made of water and a few chemical compounds which do not aid in the gluing process!

Thanks.

AG. wrote:30% CA
65% Water
5% 'chemical compounds which do not aid in the gluing process'

100% bs GW bashing.

Being a little delicate about GW aren't we? I hope you do not doubt my word. I can give more info but I do not think that people would like to know about the tests they do in material physics. I wish people would not be so tetchy when someone finds out something about GW. We do not bash GW as I said we are big fans of the games and both have friends who work for GW and not assuming too much but I have been involved with GW and their games since they started - so basically keep the sanctimonious self righteous replies where they belong. I do hope you have bashed the paint being alive thread?!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although I would have to add that I do not want this thread turning into let's bash each other which gets threads nowhere! The test is called an sem-edx test which pin-points compounds and atomic species. I don't use this analysis type as I am a researcher in impact related astrophysics. Hope this helps.

sanctimonious

self righteous

Synonyms.

I do hope you have bashed the paint being alive thread?!

Sure have.


You've managed to provide no evidence once again, or even defend the fact that water is a catalyst of CA.

Oh look, another GW White Knight.

Me,, I'm not pro or anti GW. Just find it weird you mentioned there's water in superglue when cyanoacrylate's catalyst is water. I'm no chemist so I'm not particularly knowledgeable about these things, but you would at least think that IF there is water there, there would be at least something in the mix that won't make the cyanoacrylate react to it.

Well I will say that my friend told me that he suspected there was a lot of water in it although he could not be sure due to the fact that edx scans show everything from carbon singular up! With regards to not adding the actual data, I'm sure you'll understand that it is NOT my data and therefore I do not own the property of the data nor will it be compatible on this forum until it is changed into a usable format. Also added to this as PhD students we do little experiments like these out of curiosity and we do have other things to do as well! I only posted this information which if you cannot or do not wish to accept is your problem entirely. As stated this was never meant to be anything to do with GW bashing and I wish some of us would get over this fact! I am alerting the MODs to close this thread as I fear it might become personal.

Ignore the trolls - interesting stuff if true though. I presume you have the solid test evidence to back it up though?

Thanks for the reply, my friend has the data! We always have to back our findings! On another point to an earlier post Just researching I haven't been able to see anything which suggests water is a catalyst although CA's do need one. I think the water increases viscosity! P.s. Thanks for advice MOD! I don't want to get into trouble but I'm more than happy for the thread to remain active

Wulfen Andy wrote: I haven't been able to see anything which suggests water is a catalyst although CA's do need one.

Really?

From the first and 4th results for 'Superglue' on Google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
"In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together."

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question695.htm
"Cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that cures (forms its strongest bond) almost instantly. The only trigger it requires is the hydroxyl ions in water,"

insaniak wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote: I haven't been able to see anything which suggests water is a catalyst although CA's do need one.

Really?

From the first and 4th results for 'Superglue' on Google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
"In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together."

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question695.htm
"Cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that cures (forms its strongest bond) almost instantly. The only trigger it requires is the hydroxyl ions in water,"

I stand humbly corrected! Most things I saw stated that water acted as a viscosity agent and the polymer chains were present already and utilised EM bonding during the curing stage!

GW super glue works as well as any other thin super glue for me. Its expensive and some people hate the container (i think they got rid of the handy brush in the lid?) but it works fine.

I've not bought it in quite a while. I've had good success with the gale force 9 glue so tend to use that for my superglueing needs.

Nice find..... Now I know not to use there glue!

I have no problem with GW glue except for the cost.

If you don't like it don't use it. If they are cutting corners to make it cheaper for them well that is there bussiness. It is ours to choose if we buy it or we don't.

Its funny that alot of you don't want to use there glue now that you have found this little tidbit out. I am sure you had no problem with using it before hand. But now GW is wrong for making it cheaper for them. Every company does this. Why I lost a job to China a couple years ago. To have cheaper a work force.

It is an intersting find none the less.

HONAW wrote:Nice find..... Now I know not to use there glue!

That should have been a given anyway. Not because of this 'discovery' (which I'm inclined to think is just a wind-up, or a mistake, since as mentioned superglue having water as an ingredient seems to be impossible) but simply because GW's glues are hideously over-priced.


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balsak_da_mighty wrote:Its funny that alot of you don't want to use there glue now that you have found this little tidbit out.

'Alot of you'...?

Are you reading the same thread?

Has he tested it for bacteria? lol

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/435613.page

I have tried 6-7 Super glues and the one I keep coming back to is Gale Force 9 one. I think the product is a good balance between, price, quality and amount in the bottle.

Zap-a-gap was pretty good too, although brutal in it's drying time. 0.3 of a second contact between your fingers and they will be glued together.

mwnciboo wrote:Has he tested it for bacteria? lol

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/435613.page

You're about a dozen posts too late...

I have tried 6-7 Super glues and the one I keep coming back to is Gale Force 9 one. I think the product is a good balance between, price, quality and amount in the bottle.

Zap-a-gap was pretty good too, although brutal in it's drying time. 0.3 of a second contact between your fingers and they will be glued together.

I use the little $2 tubes of Selley's superglue from the glue section in the supermarket.

insaniak wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:Has he tested it for bacteria? lol

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/435613.page

You're about a dozen posts too late...

Damnit just seen that above. * The Neanderthal slinks back into the shadows*

And I always assumed that super glue bonds faster when touched by body oils, (It was surgical based to begin with) that lead me to believe it was designed to bond flesh easier due to the oils, now I see it is what is in water. You learn something new everyday. I guess the other chemicals are to prevent it from drying with the water that they use, possibly super pure water?

Either way, how could they test to make sure that youre minis are so 100% GW product, including paint and glue, etc?

shasolenzabi wrote:And I always assumed that super glue bonds faster when touched by body oils, (It was surgical based to begin with) that lead me to believe it was designed to bond flesh easier due to the oils, now I see it is what is in water. You learn something new everyday. I guess the other chemicals are to prevent it from drying with the water that they use, possibly super pure water?

They don't use water in superglue. That was the reason for people questioning the OP's original post.

if chemical analysis is showing water in there, my guess would be that the glue is (as it is supposed to do) pulling water out of the air and whatever surface it is on for the testing.

Either way, how could they test to make sure that youre minis are so 100% GW product, including paint and glue, etc?

Who's doing that, and why would they want to?

insaniak wrote:

HONAW wrote:Nice find..... Now I know not to use there glue!

That should have been a given anyway. Not because of this 'discovery' (which I'm inclined to think is just a wind-up, or a mistake, since as mentioned superglue having water as an ingredient seems to be impossible) but simply because GW's glues are hideously over-priced.

Well....did not know until now though.