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Question says it all really peeps.

I do, highly recommend them. Always worth paying for 1st class postage as it still comes out cheaper than buying from GW

They are my preferred vendor but as with anything, it pays to shop around. Don't just settle for one seller; check them all - sometimes one is cheaper than the other for certain items.

Wayland and Maelstrom are the most popular and well known independent GW traders in UK, reknown for offering very low GW prices. So popular BTW that they hurt Indy sales in other countries as well.

Yea I "used" to buy from Maelstrom and Wayland before GW went all anal and stopped postage of their items anywhere cept for Europe and te UK.

Yea but anyways, very good online stores and I only had one problem with them.

Time for a dissenting opinion - Wayland are the company that asked a friend of mine to send defective product back for a refund, refused to send the refund upon receipt of the goods, then threatened to sue if my friend started a PayPal dispute to recover the funds.

At this point, I wouldn't touch them with a 12 foot pole...

I wouldn't touch them with yours....

I'm not particularly impressed with Wayland, either. I had an issue with a shipment, got asked to raise a ticket, and it took bloody forever to resolve a simple refund.

Customer service is also wanting - the tone and words of the e-mails that were exchanged left me in no doubt that I was considered an idiot for even raising a ticket.

I'll never buy from Wayland again.

Maelstrom may be slow, but at least I don't get treated like an ass.

Not a fan of Wayland. Their website will say something is regular stock but then it won't be and you'll wait and wait.

If I was in the UK, it'd be Darksphere all the way. I order paints through Maelstrom. If I want GW stuff, I'll go with Miniaturemarket.com and eBay as UK companies can't ship GW to me.

They are perfectly fine. if you are reasonable.

If you expect them to stock EVERYTHING in the whole wide world then you will be disapointed....

If you can wait a week or two for it to ship, they will get it to you np...

with that said though, I've never waited more than 2-3 days for anything to ship out.... If you want something main line like SM, DE or Crons then im sure it will be quick...

If you want a Dwarf Flame Cannon you might have to wait since no one on earth stocks them =]

Poppabear wrote:Yea I "used" to buy from Maelstrom and Wayland before GW went all anal and stopped postage of their items anywhere cept for Europe and te UK.

This.

Milisim wrote:They are perfectly fine. if you are reasonable.

If you expect them to stock EVERYTHING in the whole wide world then you will be disapointed....

It is in no way unreasonable for someone to expect them to be telling the truth about their stock levels when they call something regular stock.

The War Store doesn't say something is in stock when it is not. Same goes for Miniature Market and Maelstrom.

Wayland Games lies about their stock levels. I ordered from them and a few weeks went by before it even shipped. Every other store above shipped within 2 days. I think once I had an order with Miniature Market where their stock level was off by one and they emailed me immediately and asked me if I wanted to remove the item or wait. Wayland won't bother. They'll just tell you nothing and expect you to wait and wait.

Why would I order from some place where they may sit on an order for a few weeks without telling me? What's the point of having any notes about stock on your website if they're completely unreliable?

Internet sales is all about trust and I'm not going to trust people who lie about whether or not something is in stock. Nothing unreasonable about expecting Wayland to meet the standards that pretty much every other webstore manages to maintain. Why deal with Wayland's delays for items they claim to have but don't when you can go elsewhere?

i stopped using them as the stuff which was supposedly in stock, took an age to arrive, even with first class shipping.
I now use Mealstrom, but only becuase i can pop in.

Wayland is the last place I look. Made 3 orders total, every time I had to wait ages because something was not in stock when the website said is was. Also, they've been using "we're in the middle of a warehouse move" as an excuse for years.

Maelstrom only left me hanging once (out of dozens of orders) and sent me something like £35 worth of free product as an apology.

You get some good deals on Amazon UK. While there are rarely massive discounts going there are always many offers that will save you a few quid. For example you can get terminators for about £22.00(that includes the postage) Currently razorbacks seem to be on offer for well under £20.00.

Dysartes wrote:Time for a dissenting opinion - Wayland are the company that asked a friend of mine to send defective product back for a refund, refused to send the refund upon receipt of the goods, then threatened to sue if my friend started a PayPal dispute to recover the funds.

At this point, I wouldn't touch them with a 12 foot pole...

Hi there,

I am not here to argue with you but the version of events you are referring to are not anywhere near the truth.

A customer places an order. (oddly enough the purchaser was a staff member for another store, and was using the stores Paypal account)
Some of the products out of stock with us and manufacturer. On restock order so shouldn't be long.
Customer rightly raises ticket to complain or find out what delay was.
Ticket responded to, stating restocks would be with us any day.
Items arrive and shipped.
A few days later another ticket is raised claiming items faulty and parts missing.
We sent reply explaining that the fastest fix is through Spartan, or we can replace (thought can take longer). Many manufactures have replacement services and ask us to push missing parts claims to them.
No reply from customer on helpdesk ticket.

A claim is made on Paypal for full value of order despite only a small selection of items claimed to be incorrect.

Wayland CS rep calls customer to try and resolve issue. Customer has not seen help desk response email.

Customer insists on full refund for order and to keep goods. In subsequent calls we continue to request items are now returned at our expense (via courier) and the customer repeatedly refuses.
Customer then admits to assembling and painting some of the items, which is fine but we still on assist on having items returned.
Customer makes a remark about knowing how to make sure they keep items and money via Pay Pal. At this point we explain our calls are recorded.
Customer in next call agrees to return the items and we will grant a full refund.
A few days later the items are returned.
2/3rds are assembled and 1/3rd painted. We can find no evidence of any of the defects indicated. Customer had also claimed some missing flight stands etc, which could have been replaced instantly.

This all from a member of staff from a competitor.

I have listened to all the calls, my customer service person acted courteously and reasonably at all times. And I stand by their actions 100% in this case.

We pride ourselves on customer service, we are not perfect of course but we do more and care more about our customers than any other retailer in this market I am certain.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

frozenwastes wrote:

Milisim wrote:They are perfectly fine. if you are reasonable.

If you expect them to stock EVERYTHING in the whole wide world then you will be disapointed....

It is in no way unreasonable for someone to expect them to be telling the truth about their stock levels when they call something regular stock.

The War Store doesn't say something is in stock when it is not. Same goes for Miniature Market and Maelstrom.

Wayland Games lies about their stock levels. I ordered from them and a few weeks went by before it even shipped. Every other store above shipped within 2 days. I think once I had an order with Miniature Market where their stock level was off by one and they emailed me immediately and asked me if I wanted to remove the item or wait. Wayland won't bother. They'll just tell you nothing and expect you to wait and wait.

Why would I order from some place where they may sit on an order for a few weeks without telling me? What's the point of having any notes about stock on your website if they're completely unreliable?

Internet sales is all about trust and I'm not going to trust people who lie about whether or not something is in stock. Nothing unreasonable about expecting Wayland to meet the standards that pretty much every other webstore manages to maintain. Why deal with Wayland's delays for items they claim to have but don't when you can go elsewhere?

We do not lie about our stock levels whatsoever. We don't claim to have live stock levels currently. We have indicators against items showing what their availability generally is. They are generally accurate, and many get updated all the time.

Also when you place an order you are repesented with a selection box should an item be out of stock you can indicate what you would like us to do, from an instant refund to waiting x number of weeks for it to return to stock.

rich1231 wrote:

Dysartes wrote:Time for a dissenting opinion - Wayland are the company that asked a friend of mine to send defective product back for a refund, refused to send the refund upon receipt of the goods, then threatened to sue if my friend started a PayPal dispute to recover the funds.

At this point, I wouldn't touch them with a 12 foot pole...

Hi there,

I am not here to argue with you but the version of events you are referring to are not anywhere near the truth.

A customer places an order. (oddly enough the purchaser was a staff member for another store, and was using the stores Paypal account)
Some of the products out of stock with us and manufacturer. On restock order so shouldn't be long.
Customer rightly raises ticket to complain or find out what delay was.
Ticket responded to, stating restocks would be with us any day.
Items arrive and shipped.
A few days later another ticket is raised claiming items faulty and parts missing.
We sent reply explaining that the fastest fix is through Spartan, or we can replace (thought can take longer). Many manufactures have replacement services and ask us to push missing parts claims to them.
No reply from customer on helpdesk ticket.

A claim is made on Paypal for full value of order despite only a small selection of items claimed to be incorrect.

Wayland CS rep calls customer to try and resolve issue. Customer has not seen help desk response email.

Customer insists on full refund for order and to keep goods. In subsequent calls we continue to request items are now returned at our expense (via courier) and the customer repeatedly refuses.
Customer then admits to assembling and painting some of the items, which is fine but we still on assist on having items returned.
Customer makes a remark about knowing how to make sure they keep items and money via Pay Pal. At this point we explain our calls are recorded.
Customer in next call agrees to return the items and we will grant a full refund.
A few days later the items are returned.
2/3rds are assembled and 1/3rd painted. We can find no evidence of any of the defects indicated. Customer had also claimed some missing flight stands etc, which could have been replaced instantly.

This all from a member of staff from a competitor.

I have listened to all the calls, my customer service person acted courteously and reasonably at all times. And I stand by their actions 100% in this case.

We pride ourselves on customer service, we are not perfect of course but we do more and care more about our customers than any other retailer in this market I am certain.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

frozenwastes wrote:

Milisim wrote:They are perfectly fine. if you are reasonable.

If you expect them to stock EVERYTHING in the whole wide world then you will be disapointed....

It is in no way unreasonable for someone to expect them to be telling the truth about their stock levels when they call something regular stock.

The War Store doesn't say something is in stock when it is not. Same goes for Miniature Market and Maelstrom.

Wayland Games lies about their stock levels. I ordered from them and a few weeks went by before it even shipped. Every other store above shipped within 2 days. I think once I had an order with Miniature Market where their stock level was off by one and they emailed me immediately and asked me if I wanted to remove the item or wait. Wayland won't bother. They'll just tell you nothing and expect you to wait and wait.

Why would I order from some place where they may sit on an order for a few weeks without telling me? What's the point of having any notes about stock on your website if they're completely unreliable?

Internet sales is all about trust and I'm not going to trust people who lie about whether or not something is in stock. Nothing unreasonable about expecting Wayland to meet the standards that pretty much every other webstore manages to maintain. Why deal with Wayland's delays for items they claim to have but don't when you can go elsewhere?

We do not lie about our stock levels whatsoever. We don't claim to have live stock levels currently. We have indicators against items showing what their availability generally is. They are generally accurate, and many get updated all the time.

Also when you place an order you are repesented with a selection box should an item be out of stock you can indicate what you would like us to do, from an instant refund to waiting x number of weeks for it to return to stock.

I'm sure that what you are saying is true but...

We do not lie about our stock levels whatsoever. We don't claim to have live stock levels currently. We have indicators against items showing what their availability generally is. They are generally accurate, and many get updated all the time.

I don't want to say that you are lying but I've had orders of items with a green sign take weeks to ship so I'd just encourage you to work a bit more on that part...

Anyway because of the little availability of items where I am right now I'll continue to order from Wayland, so If you could just work a bit more on the stock levels I'd certainly buy some more stuff.

Wayland is excellent. Sure it took a while (2+weeks) to get to me, but the prices were great.
I've ordered from them several times until the GW embargo clamped down on shipping.

Jumping in on the 'prefer not to use Wayland anymore' bandwagon.

I got used to their long lead times, and would plan around it (I've long ceased ordering items for any upcoming games). Recently recieved a free shipping voucher for them, and decided to give them another shot to buy something a few days before the release date, along with some spray primer. Of course I didn't expect a quick delivery, so I waited patiently. Exactly three weeks after the order was placed I recieved an email to say it had been shipped. Except... hold on... my spray paint had been refunded as the free shipping did not include couriers.
In the 15 working days since the order was placed no one could find 2 minutes to fire off an email and let me know that I'd need to upgrade my shipping or pick up the primer elsewhere.

Also this 'High Availability' idea is vague enough to be entirely pointless. From the website: "High Availability: If in stock should ship in 1-5 working days, if not then 3-9.". What silly phrasing. When I worked in a restaurant I wouldn't dream of saying to a customer "Your meal will be ready in 10-15mins, if not then it'll be half an hour".

I purchased from Wayland at Salute last year at their stand and the products were diverse and the service excellent.
I followed it up with two more purchases from Wayland from their website, one took 3 weeks and the other took a month.
I'll buy from their stand again but not from their webstore.

rich1231 wrote:
We do not lie about our stock levels whatsoever. We don't claim to have live stock levels currently. We have indicators against items showing what their availability generally is. They are generally accurate, and many get updated all the time.

You are calling things regular stock that are not and giving availability times that are in no way accurate. This has been going on for months so it's not a matter of you not being aware of it. So you're still telling the customer things are available as regular stock while knowing what you are saying is not true. What is that called when someone says something they know isn't true?

A year+ ago, if a thread about your company came up, there would be tons of praise and not a single bad complaint. Now, it's all bad news. What happened? Somehow, I don't think it's all the customers.

You also may want to remember what is often called the 3/11 rule in marketing. A person with a good experience will tell 3 people. A person with a bad experience will tell 11. While I'm not sure if the numbers are scientifically reliable, the point is that if people have bad experiences they are more likely to spread the word than if they have good experiences.

Meeting them may be a great challenge, but when it comes to customer service, the standard for you to meat is Neal at The War Store, the guys at Miniature Market and even Maelstrom (who had some issues with their eBay operation that they've turned around). Right now you're misleading your customers about stock levels, having poor communication like dropping a spray can from an order instead of contacting the customer to see what they want, and not getting product into customer's hands in a speedy fashion. And when you do communicate, it's curt and defensive.

Threads like this should be a wake up call.

Don't hate the messengers.

I use them if Dark Sphere don't have what I want in stock (5% price difference).

However, I've had two bad experiences with them, both relating to stock. (the first time: saying it's in-stock when it isn't and it taking ages to turn up).

The last one caused a bit of a furor with me, I bought some magnets and an Army Painter brush set, both were marked as out of stock: Fair enough.

I waited a week and then my order was despatched and it arrived some time later. Inside were the magnets and on my receipt the brushes were scribbled out and 'sorry, out of stock' was written.

My thoughts were: 'Well then what the feth was I waiting for?' I'd have rather they'd just further delayed the order... I'm essentially expected to pay postage twice.

At any rate, I got a refund through PayPal for the brushes, but I'm still mad; I wanted them, hence why I paid. If they're going to cock up and send me half an order and then just cancel it, why should I give them my custom?

I will probably just get the brushes from Dark Sphere, though, it would be interesting to know if Dakkaites think I am over-reacting or fairly in the right... if the latter is the case I might chase Wayland up for some concession on postage or the like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: Just bothered to read the thread (a flaw of mine is that if I have a strong opinion I just leap in there and post) and it's interesting to see that others have had similar experiences...

Is it so hard to have some kind of system that logs how much stock you purchase and is also aware of how many are sent out? You order in 20 boxes of something, each time an order is despatched that includes one of these items it's logged and updates the total. So many websites out there will say '19 in stock' or something to that effect. I don't see why in this day and age any stock notification should be an estimate. That's bad book-keeping.

Defending Wayland here. Yeah, I'm a fanboy, what of it?

Customers should bear in mind that the stock indicator says the following:

Stock status legend:
High Availability: If in stock should ship in 1-5 working days, if not then 3-9.
Ordered In: Special orders from suppliers, should ship in 3-12 working days
Expected Soon: Resupply expected, should ship in 7-14 working days
Pre-Order Only: This item will be shipped when released to us by the supplier
Out of Stock: This item is presently unavailable

Note that says "if in stock", no "in stock, guaranteed to ship in x days".

Yes, the fact that this legend does not guarantee current stock levels may be frustrating, but when you deal in the number of products that Wayland keeps, the amount of man power required to ensure that every single item is correct 24/7 is, I think, a little over expectant of us end users. We need to remember that not every company is the massive corporate being that we automatically assume every business with a decent website is.

They also have the "if out of stock, what would you like us to do" box at the end of the order process, this is pure brilliance! How many other sites do you know that has this? On occasions where you've received a slip saying, "out of stock, sorry", stop to think that maybe Wayland did this and refunded you as it was the best course of action available. Good on them for at least sending you the items that they could! Would you have preferred to waited another god knows how long in the hope that these brushes arrived? Instead of messing you about, Wayland realised that the best course of action would be to refund that part of the order so you COULD get the goods from elsewhere! It's in their interest to keep your cash, but they didn't do that.

I have no hesitation in recommending Wayland Games to any one, I frequently do. Their customer service reps always have the customers best interests in mind, they keep stock of HUGE amount of EVERYTHING and all at what I presume and quite low product margins.

I have used other companies, but only where I could save a bit more cash (and not always a lot to be honest). I've done that a couple of times now and each time found myself wishing that I'd ordered through Wayland Games.

Now just to point out that I do not work at Wayland, I do not know anyone there, this is an entirely unbiased opinion that is based solely on personal experience.

OP - remember this, people always remember the bad experiences they have and shout about how they've pissed on by "xxxxx", but they rarely ever offer praise where praise is due. I'm willing to bet painting time that the negative feedback given has been from 1 order out of 5.

Try them for yourself, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

kitch102 wrote:
Note that says "if in stock", no "in stock, guaranteed to ship in x days".

But it does say that if "not in stock" it ships in 3-9 days and although it doesn't always happen it frequently takes more than that to ship.

I've got no beef with Wayland, I have and will continue to use them, have had minor issues in the past and they've been sorted in sensible time with no problems.

Have also used Maelstrom, and have no complaints there either.

Most of my GW purchasing is going to Dark Sphere at the moment though, they are normally cheaper (their shipping can be a little sharp, but they give options) and I don't think I've had an order take less than 3 working days to reach me yet, including one occasion where I requested an item be added to an order, and they stuck it in the box and shipped it before I'd paid the extra (which, of course, I did!)

All the big online retailers are pretty good IMHO, and with the level of business they are doing, if you look hard enough, you will always find someone with a problem, it's regrettable, but it happens.

I also support Wayland, they have on the whole been very good to deal with. Yes sometimes my orders may take a while, but as long as I recieve them I have no problems waiting. Most of us will have a backlog of stuff to build/paint, am I right?Judging by how fanatical all of us are I'd say we all have something we could do in the meantime; I've got a very big backlog of stuff that I am trying to get through yet I still buy more!
When it comes down to it, we're getting stuff cheaper online; we have to realise that delivery won't be as prompt as walking into a shop and buying it off the shelf. Of course there are numerous methods they could use to highlight whether items are in stock, but bear in mind all the ranges that Wayland carry; we seriously cannot expect them to have every single thing available anytime we place an order? It would be financial suicide. Also think on this; We may not be the only person online at that point ordering from the same range. Somebody earlier said that they should have a stock of an item at something like 20 boxes. Fine, but what happens if you are order number 21? Then allow for other traders doing the same, then add in the manufacturer trying to supply all of them at the same time. Even with GW there will be delays in getting resupplied, we need to cut the online retailers some slack. I'm not having a pop at anyone here; what I'm saying is that if a range is popular we won't be the only ones ordering it at the same time.
I'm currently buying stuff at damn good prices through Amazon, sometimes I get the stuff within 3 days. The last order took over 2 weeks from the dispatch email, yet the package was the same size as the previous order. And it was sent from England to Scotland, which isn't really that far away. Did I raise hell? Why should I? I got the stuff.
In Wayland's defence, from what I can see is that they are trying to ensure that all orders are complete(and yes I know that does not always happen)hence the delay. But as other posters have pointed out they now have various options in how your order is processed so any problems are quickly sorted out.

jgehunter wrote:

kitch102 wrote:
Note that says "if in stock", no "in stock, guaranteed to ship in x days".

But it does say that if "not in stock" it ships in 3-9 days and although it doesn't always happen it frequently takes more than that to ship.

Is that time to the despatch email arriving or the goods arriving? Either way, its bound to happen occasionally, a prize horse won't win every race and you're a fool to expect it to do so (bot being aggressive there, just apt terminology to use).

I think slipstream got it in one, he seems to put my point across better than I have!

I don't expect them to be perfect but if they say that something is will take x days to ship I expect it to be fairly accurate, as I'm buying online there are a wide range of shops and it is the availability of the product what nomally makes me buy from 1 shop or another, I'm not saying that Wayland is terrible, or that there is no good in it, but I would expect them in the future to be a tad more accurate with the availability of the products they offer.

P.D. It's the time it takes to be shipped, if it was the ETA I'd always buy from Wayland.

Slipstream wrote:Also think on this; We may not be the only person online at that point ordering from the same range. Somebody earlier said that they should have a stock of an item at something like 20 boxes. Fine, but what happens if you are order number 21?

The software should automatically tell you that the item is out of stock, just like with every other online shop ever except for Wayland.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Slipstream wrote:Also think on this; We may not be the only person online at that point ordering from the same range. Somebody earlier said that they should have a stock of an item at something like 20 boxes. Fine, but what happens if you are order number 21?

The software should automatically tell you that the item is out of stock, just like with every other online shop ever except for Wayland.

Sorry, that's wrong. It's true that a good number of webstores offer this though an equal number don't as the cost of this software is anything but small. Imagine being a start up company or whatever:

Salesman - "Would you like us to add software that auto adjusts your stock listing to out of stock when quantities get low for the low low price of £1000?"
SME - "Thanks, but we'll manage that ourselves, the cost is too prohibitive"

Assuming that all software acts the same, or that all businesses have access to "make your life easy" tools, is... wrong.