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Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
The axe Praetor looks really nice in Wolves colours, fits the Legion aesthetic really well.
Spoiler:

Also seems that Psychic Powers are back to being spread throughout various phases rather than having a distinct one.

Amnidextrous dreadnoughts? Nice. I was hoping that was the case. Should make the model more adaptable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?

For people who can have a laugh? Looking forward to tomorrow's sand castle champions article and the day after's haunted house enthusiasts article.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 zedmeister wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?


I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.


More's the pity. I can understand not taking things too seriously, but I don't think treating your own product as a joke is a good idea.

GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?

Marketting =/= lore and the tone between the two don't have to match.


Agreed. Also, 30Ks and 40Ks background is far too absurd to be taken seriousely all the time. I mean, White Scars, Space Wolves, Nightlords and others are clearly joke factions so why would you present them dead-seriously? Primarch Iron Hand with his Iron Hands from the Iron Hands legion? Yeah...
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
JWBS wrote:The upset caused by the criticism is mildly amusing. Classic Dakka.
As is the criticism itself. Classic Dakka.


"I don't like this" <- Reasonable statement
"I do like this" <- Reasonable statement

"You shouldn't dislike this otherwise you're a tryhard" <- Absurd statement

"Who would like this? A clown-shoes type of 40k fan" - Also an absurd statement.

Sorry, works both ways.


I'm mostly questioning it from a marketing perspective. I appreciate some people might find it amusing while I find it cringe... but if you liked it does it make you more likely to buy it enough to offset the decrease in desire to buy of the people who found it cringe?
Do you think there's a lot of people who will refuse to buy it because it's cringe?

It seems to me the smart marketing decision is to hit somewhere in the middle, where you're not putting off the people who like silliness by being absurdly serious about toy dollies, nor are you putting off the people who take their hobby a bit more seriously by being super silly.
If you can't take your hobby seriously because someone else is poking fun at it, that's kinda on you. Likewise, if I couldn't have fun because everyone else was being super serious, then that's on me, and is up to make to make my own fun.

HH has always had more of a gritty bent to it, so I think in this case it's more important to be more balanced (anyone still collecting 40k Space Wolves has probably embraced the clown shoes, though folk interested in 30k Vlka Fenryka are probably the types who were put off by Logan Santa in his sleigh).
These articles aren't the same thing as the actual 30k campaign/novel material, and I think that's good. If you want the "gritty" stuff, re-read your Black Books. If you want something more tongue-in-cheek and trivial, then read these articles. If we're talking about being "balanced", then these articles provide that, in contrast to the Black Books.

People can enjoy what they want to enjoy, people can cringe at what makes them cringe. I would think as a business though you aren't trying to make a significant portion of your customers cringe.
Is the cringe enough to put you off buying it entirely? If it cringes you out, do you need to read the completely optional webpage articles?


They/them

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 ClockworkZion wrote:
GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?

Marketting =/= lore and the tone between the two don't have to match.


Indeed, but this isn't light hearted nor humourous. This just treats the entire concept and product as a joke. It is really off putting.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 zedmeister wrote:
but this isn't light hearted nor humourous.
I disagree. I think it's both.
This just treats the entire concept and product as a joke. It is really off putting.
In what way?


They/them

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

It's unfunny. It makes the entire concept look crap and a bit of joke by looking and sounding cheap, tacky. cringy, embarrassing and I don't want anything to do with it.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





zedmeister wrote:It's unfunny. It makes the entire concept look crap and a bit of joke by looking and sounding cheap, tacky. cringy, embarrassing and I don't want anything to do with it.
Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 15:26:55



They/them

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
JWBS wrote:The upset caused by the criticism is mildly amusing. Classic Dakka.
As is the criticism itself. Classic Dakka.


"I don't like this" <- Reasonable statement
"I do like this" <- Reasonable statement

"You shouldn't dislike this otherwise you're a tryhard" <- Absurd statement

"Who would like this? A clown-shoes type of 40k fan" - Also an absurd statement.

Sorry, works both ways.


LOL, sorry if that sounded harsh, I don't actually consider "clown-shoes type" to be an insult but I can see how it could be misinterpreted. It just means person who likes the silly aspects of stuff.

"Tryhard" to me always has a negative connotation, "clown-shoes" is just someone who likes silly stuff.

I've frequently heard the term "clown shoes" or "big red nose" used by people to describe themselves liking something that your typical person might find silly, whether it be cars, hobbies, humour, whatever.

It wouldn't have even become a talking point if didn't start attacking people for not liking it.


I'm mostly questioning it from a marketing perspective. I appreciate some people might find it amusing while I find it cringe... but if you liked it does it make you more likely to buy it enough to offset the decrease in desire to buy of the people who found it cringe?
Do you think there's a lot of people who will refuse to buy it because it's cringe?

I doubt that'd be the sole reason, I think there'd be some who are put off by it, and surely the purpose of marketing is to draw people in rather than putting them off, no?

It seems to me the smart marketing decision is to hit somewhere in the middle, where you're not putting off the people who like silliness by being absurdly serious about toy dollies, nor are you putting off the people who take their hobby a bit more seriously by being super silly.
If you can't take your hobby seriously because someone else is poking fun at it, that's kinda on you. Likewise, if I couldn't have fun because everyone else was being super serious, then that's on me, and is up to make to make my own fun.

It's not "someone else", it's literally the company making and marketing it.

If it cringes you out, do you need to read the completely optional webpage articles?
Again, it's marketing, it's supposed to bring people in and not push them away.

Someone on a previous page said they get deflated seeing the negativity on dakka... that's fair enough, but do you really want people being deflated by the actual marketing material designed to get people interested in it?

I would say this very discussion is evidence that such marketing is a bad idea, the fact it's garnered such negative bickering among the community is a bad outcome.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





York, NE

Jesus, this conversation is more stupid than the split shoulderpad rant....



Something is happening on the 24th, we sent you a poster.
 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.


Actually, I want to see more humour based on the subtle acerbic satire that 40k has offered up in the past rather than this meme crap. But hey ho, horses for courses
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 TalonZahn wrote:
Jesus, this conversation is more stupid than the split shoulderpad rant....


Don't get me started, I did notice in the SW video more than the others the split shoulder pad and eagerly await people to magically turn it invisible with a simple application of <insert thin plastic cement here>.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

As someone who went through most of my life being told by others that I have no sense of humor and take things too seriously and am way too negative, etc. take it from me when I say that you lot have no sense of humor, take things too seriously, and are way too fething negative. We are talking about toy soldiers here, specifically a blog post about toy soldiers thats meant to be tongue-in-cheek. This is less than nothing to get your feathers in a ruffle over, if you are getting your feathers in a ruffle over it then you got bigger problems than "cynical corporate marketing" or whatever malarky you're bandying around.

Now, best part of the article was definitely the part where they call out the silliness (nay, abject stupidity) of the Space Wolves having about a dozen different names they go by. They're fething Space Wolves, people that go around referring to them as "the Rout" or "Vlka Fenryka" are try-hard pretentious hipster snobs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 15:37:17


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 zedmeister wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.


Actually, I want to see more humour based on the subtle acerbic satire that 40k has offered up in the past rather than this meme crap. But hey ho, horses for courses


Yeah, maybe I'm misremembering or looking through rose tinted glasses at the past, but I seem to recall them being smarter about their humour and satire. Sure, lizardmen has silly names, but the way they used those silly names in an otherwise well written story was what made the silly names funny and bearable.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







We will one day have actual news to discuss rather than this.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 blood reaper wrote:
We will one day have actual news to discuss rather than this.


Hopefully, that'll be Thursday with maybe a plastic Leviathan?
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Agreed. Also, 30Ks and 40Ks background is far too absurd to be taken seriousely all the time. I mean, White Scars, Space Wolves, Nightlords and others are clearly joke factions so why would you present them dead-seriously? Primarch Iron Hand with his Iron Hands from the Iron Hands legion? Yeah...

Oh Primarch Sand-Eater who can catch and crush energy weapon shots in his hands? Yeah, totally supposed to be read 100% seriously all the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:07:18


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mr_Rose wrote:Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
Me. It's funny.


Indeed, it is...

Some folks should chill and relax, you're not forced to read them or see them in the Books and Rules...

Anyway... it's also funny how much some folks get triggered by those articles...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?


There was also that White Dwarf in 2018 with the Ork Thema or the Black Gobbo issue back in the 90s.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:19:07


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 blood reaper wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's cynical corporate marketing - it's not something worthy of defence.

Bro, who cares? If it's not worthy of defense then it isn't worthy of attack either. Find something else to wind yourself up about.


Because no time is lost saying "this is crap". The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.


You found optimism on Dakka? What??? Are we on the same forum?


Honestly if that article upset anyone then they bought wayyyyy too hard into the "Heresy is srs bznss historical" crap, and clearly never opened a White Dwarf in the past 30 years. In-jokes and self-deprecating humour are rife on WHC. It's been their thing since it launched, carrying on that 90s White Dwarf tradition. Sorry if it's not all sombre sadness and being angry about which mark of armour anyone is allowed to use, etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:23:37


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.

I feel like they'll mostly focus on getting the shared units into plastic first. Hopefully in all marks in the long run for people who want them, but I'm all in on the MkVI train for Night Lords. I have no beakie nostalgia, but honestly I've really warmed up to them the more I've seen.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hate Space Wolves, always will hate Space Wolves. But that paintjob is amazing.

Legion Specific units are obviously cool - but equally, its a lot of investment for what could be a relatively niche return.

I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.

I feel like they'll mostly focus on getting the shared units into plastic first. Hopefully in all marks in the long run for people who want them, but I'm all in on the MkVI train for Night Lords. I have no beakie nostalgia, but honestly I've really warmed up to them the more I've seen.


I for one am hoping the rumored plastic Deimos Predator, Vindicator, and Whirlwind kits come out. I have been reserving a vintage RT Rhino and Predator to use for 30k but would almost rather shuffle them over to my little RTB01 vs RTB02 minis project and go full new plastic Deimos kits style for my 30k fellas.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Tyel wrote:
Hate Space Wolves, always will hate Space Wolves. But that paintjob is amazing.

Legion Specific units are obviously cool - but equally, its a lot of investment for what could be a relatively niche return.

I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?


That would be... difficult. At least, doing 30k players, and not people who might, people who want to and 40k players who want to weigh in on their favorites.

My guess would be that there is some weird skews in there, particularly on the loyalist side, for legions that were larger parts of the narrative. (though some will like that aspect).
I also think the legion special rules changing from their previous form to their new forms will cause some migration. Particularly for the ones in the older books that had... less.


judgedoug wrote:I for one am hoping the rumored plastic Deimos Predator, Vindicator, and Whirlwind kits come out

I think they'd be crazy not to do them. It may be a bit, but with the Rhino chassis done, it'd be weird to stop. (Same with assault marines).
I get hesitation on legion-specifics, but the basics (and cross-game basics at that, which they've called out for both the Rhino and Sicarian).. even for Games 'Missed Opportunity' Workshop, that seems a bit much.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






Tyel wrote:
I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?

As far as I'm aware, the spread is pretty even.
I think the more narrative influence of the setting encourages people to go for themes and stories rather than OP broken stuff.
At an upcoming HH event I'm going to, 16 Legions are represented, good showings from Mechanicum and Militia as well as Talons and Blackshields. There are duplicates but overall its a very mixed bag of armies and we haven't even got to the lists yet. The last event had multiple Scars players and they all ran very different lists. One mechanised, one biker and a full recon company.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Good to hear there are some Scars players that aren’t just Chogorian Brotherhood all the time!
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





I'm doing Scars. Also doing at least 3 other Legions though.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
Imagine if the legion upgrade sprues didn't just have shoulder pads and legion-specific weapons but instead had all the parts necessary to turn a regular unit into a legion-specific unit - if all of those parts were used on a single unit. For example, if the Dark Angels sprue had hooded cataphractii heads, cataphractii shoulder pads, terranic greatswords for cataphractii, a few cataphractii front torsos, etc. But no legs and only the necessary arms to match the weapons. It could be used to make very Dark Angel praetor or to carry on the aesthetic to regular Cataphractii terminator squads by only using a few of the options. Or make sergeants stand out a bit. Or build Knights Cenobium if you used every single terminator part to upgrade a box of Cataphractii. Ideally it would have parts to upgrade at least one type of terminator and one type of power armor to legion-specific units, but not all the parts to build a complete unit on its own except possibly just enough to build one terminator and one power armor praetor. Might be too much for a single sprue, in which case it could be set up so you get a little over half of what you need so that two sprues would cover a 5 man squad and still allow you to build a praetor or scatter upgrade parts to other units. With some clever work and reliance on the base kit, it wouldn't even appear too repetative. Of course it wouldn't work for units that are wholely unique in appearance, but it would cover more than a few.

I know it's more likely we'll get a sprue with 10 mk 6 pads, 10 mk 4 pads, 10 mk 3 pads, 10 cataphractii pads, 10 tartaros pads, a few heads, some accessories, and a scattering of legion-specific weapons - and even that is too much - but it would be a nice way for them to bring in the unique units and help tie in their aesthetics with the rest of a force, without even taking up an additional production slot. Though people would complain about why didn't GW just add legs so you can build the unit without buying a second box.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Maybe a silly question- Where do you find the various Legion rules? I've heard the game is based on 7th ed but I haven't seen any "official" rules.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Maybe a silly question- Where do you find the various Legion rules? I've heard the game is based on 7th ed but I haven't seen any "official" rules.

There was a large playtest document leak a while back, but on launch the game is going to have it's own ruleset in the boxset that'll see individual release later as well.
   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






The rules aren't out yet, GW is previewing some parts on Warhammer Community.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tyel wrote:
I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?


https://strawpoll.com/polls/e6Z2ejVkMgN
   
 
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