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Hey folks!

I'm loving soaking up all the wisdom from on here - so here's another broad question to help me play my orks better.

Deffkoptas? I tend to run three on their own, or a squad of 2 and 1 on its own. I equip them with buzzsaws & TLRL and they scout (turbo boost usually), then tank hunt - shooty&assault. They do ok, and my opponent wastes his first (& sometimes second) turn firepower to get rid of them. I usually get a couple of immobilized / weapon destroyed out of them before they die.

Just like the cream egg.... how do you use yours? Glaring holes in my tactics? Better alternatives to tank hunt early in the game (knowing the rest of my army is footsloggy & the sooner I kill template weapons the better)? Etc. etc.

Tell me about your koptas!
Cheers

h.

I run 15 deffkoptas at a time equipting them the same as you, my opponent sh*** himself, I run them in units of 3 anyway in apocalypse, they soak up alot of fire power and die 3rd turn normally. the footsloggin army is close behind, multi-assaulting everything, you are doing it right, more deffkoptas the better though

anton wrote:I run 15 deffkoptas at a time equipting them the same as you, my opponent sh*** himself, I run them in units of 3 anyway in apocalypse, they soak up alot of fire power and die 3rd turn normally. the footsloggin army is close behind, multi-assaulting everything, you are doing it right, more deffkoptas the better though

This is a toughy. In a unit of three, ou only need to kill a single deffkopta for the unit to test leadership - which means they will be failing and running 3D6 half the time after a single casualty. If they take two casualties, they run off the board.

At the colonial I ran 3 single slots of Deff Koptas with TL Rokkits, 1 with a Big Bomb.

They worked excellently. I did not go with the Buzzsaw, as I felt I really wanted to focus on shooting the rokkits and harassing. I also did not have the points at the end for the Buzzsaw, just the Big Bomb.

The Big Bomb proved useful in most games. Killing some Eldar, dropping it on some orks, and actually drawing fire from the other Koptas in 1 game as the opponent figure might as well shoot the more expensive one.

I agree with the above, i'm not really sold in using them in units of 3. Their leadership is not good, and if they are running 3d6 they will be off the board pretty darn quickly. A unit of 5 is pretty beefy, but your still looking at Ork shooting. Even with TL, I don't know if i'd want what amount of points tied up in 5 Koptas. Your points are starting to creep into the similar cost of Nob Bikers by then... and i'd rather have the BIkers.

I run them a single model units with BuzzRokkits. Best use of 70 points. I either turbo scout and harrass with them or outflank for the psychological fear factor.

Hey. This is really helpful - cheers guys!

The reason I don't like the idea of running three individually is they make three very easy kill points. (I lost the game by 1 kill point last time). Although I do see the problem with running small squads & running... gah.

hamlet wrote:Hey. This is really helpful - cheers guys!

The reason I don't like the idea of running three individually is they make three very easy kill points. (I lost the game by 1 kill point last time). Although I do see the problem with running small squads & running... gah.

That might be a downside, but at least splitting them into small squads forces them to shoot them individually, meaning you're tying up at least 3 units to destroy them. It also resolves any leadership issues they might have.

You could always try running a max size squad if you want to focus on kill point denial.

hamlet wrote:The reason I don't like the idea of running three individually is they make three very easy kill points. (I lost the game by 1 kill point last time).

the key tactic in a Kill point game is to hide them but another really awesome strategy is just turbo-boost them around giving them a 3+ coversave making them really tempting to shoot at but really hard to hit.

When I run them, I run them in groups of 5 or none.

Always with rokkits, never with anything else, including no buzzsaws.

The reason for no buzzsaws is you have boyz in koptas, they are low in number and are going to die, and should not be in melee with anything but vehicles, furthermore it's better to shoot and stay back, or shoot close and then run in for extra glances on rear armor.

Under normal circumstances, koptas should outflank, always.

Why? It keeps your opponent clustered up, which is better for your orks if they all head to the same place. They cluster because the kopters could come in from either side and will have range to fire on something.

Never forget that koptas can hit and run, even after assaulting a vehicle. Run in, shoot, maybe assault, then try to hit and run. When it works, they are going to do some damage next turn or at least take some shots.

I use them on thier own with only rokkits, depending on how many points i have left over.

But due to my KFF saves i prefer Buggy Takks.

anton wrote:I run 15 deffkoptas at a time equipting them the same as you, my opponent sh*** himself, I run them in units of 3 anyway in apocalypse, they soak up alot of fire power and die 3rd turn normally. the footsloggin army is close behind, multi-assaulting everything, you are doing it right, more deffkoptas the better though

I have played 5 koptaz for a long time (basically till I had something else to field), and the are damn killy, as they can take on most squads without power weapons in close combat take minimal casualties from the fight. However, their big glaring weakness is their leadership. Once your opponent finds out that two tank-shocks run your entire unit of the board more often than not, they become close to useless. Thus, I wouldn't recommend using such big units, ld7 without a boss pole is really a knock-out criteria.

General_Chaos wrote:

hamlet wrote:The reason I don't like the idea of running three individually is they make three very easy kill points. (I lost the game by 1 kill point last time).

the key tactic in a Kill point game is to hide them but another really awesome strategy is just turbo-boost them around giving them a 3+ coversave making them really tempting to shoot at but really hard to hit.

Another option is going for easy killpoints like tactical marines, transports or other units without any dedicated combat ability. If a kopta produces a killpoint itself, it's not as bad if you lose it.

I field 9 rokkit-koptas with success as mobile AT-Turrets that can always fly from trouble and perch in odd locations.

I usually run two squads of three with rokkits. They move up, shake a tank or two, and then my trukks can usually make it across the board while my opponent is using all his high strength weapons to ID my koptas. The LD thing isn`t usually a problem with me, as my opponent either wipes out the squad completely out of fear (using more than one unit on them), or I miraculously pass my LD check.
When I send them out I expect them to die and they have no purpose other than drawing fire. If they shake a tank, then great, they were worth it. If they destroy a vehicle, then bonus!
I have tried the three big shoota bomm outflankers before, and it worked great.

Also, can you turbo boost on a scout move? The BRB says a normal move... I took that to mean the standard 12".

Supposedly, you can turboboost. All the gitz around dakka seem to say so. There may be something about that in the FAQ?

BRB FAQ

Q: Can bikes Turbo Boost during their Scout move?
(p76)
A: Yes they now can, but remember that they have to
remain more than 12” away from the enemy as they
move.

I've recently used the buzzsaw and bomm to have differently armed models, thus allowing for wound allocation shenanigans. It then takes four wounds to force an Ld test on a 3 model unit.

I've had some success using the standard T/L big shootas against IG infantry; they can really tear platoons up. I've done the same thing with standard war bikes too.

Having said that I tend to go with the more customary rokkits and scout move; it can really put your opponent off when they're in his face on turn one.

In a big unit, for wound allocation shenanigans and to keep costs down, consider grabbing one or two Big Shootas.

Against the rear armour 10 that you should be trying to hit where possible, they're almost as effective as Rokkits:

Big Shootas: 1.65 shots hit, 0.275 glancing hits, 0.275 penetrating hits.

Rokkits: 0.55 shots hit, 0.09 glancing hits, 0.37 penetrating hits.

So, definitely worth adding in to the mix, particularly if you're going 2nd (where you're more likely to outflank than scout).

I wouldn't bother with wound allocation on a unit that has a 40% chance to fail a moral check caused by a tank shock or a pinning test.

Hey folks

Thanks for all the help.

Today I ran three independently; turbo boosted in scout move then as I got first turn shot & assulted wrecking a Manticore, exploding a Chimera (killing some guys inside), and Immobilizing a Russ. Score!!!

Won 13 to 7 kp

h.


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(two of them even lasted 2 turns!)

I usually run 1-3 individually and always outflank, and they usually always take out a tank a piece, always been worth it

I've had 0 luck using them with buzzsaws, maybe I just don't understand the usefullness but str 7 on charge just seems like crap to me.

I love my buzzsaw koptas. With a turbo-boost scout move and then a regular move, you can often get in position for arear-armor shot with rokkits, and then assault AV 10 with str. 7, with auto-hits because it hasn't moved. 3 strength 7 hitd on AV 10, and the vehicle is at least disabled next turn, but often transports get immobilized, tanks lose their big guns, and hell, sometyimes you even get a kill! Nice for tying up backfield units and ranged guys like longfangs, crisis suits, and heavy weapons teams as well.

Rejn wrote:I usually run 1-3 individually and always outflank, and they usually always take out a tank a piece, always been worth it

I've had 0 luck using them with buzzsaws, maybe I just don't understand the usefullness but str 7 on charge just seems like crap to me.

That and combined with the fact that a good player won't let you get the inital assault by either going in reserver or bubble wrapping their tanks -- that trick is often called noobhammer.

Outflanking koptas are very nice. You can take shots on targets that are giving your problems, and often will get side/rear shots.

Yea I usually encounter the problematic tanks are at the rear of the board, so oitflanking let's my koptas get back there and mess stuff up while some of his army (CSM) has to turn around and deal with the oitflanking AT threat.

labmouse42 wrote:

Rejn wrote:I usually run 1-3 individually and always outflank, and they usually always take out a tank a piece, always been worth it

I've had 0 luck using them with buzzsaws, maybe I just don't understand the usefullness but str 7 on charge just seems like crap to me.

That and combined with the fact that a good player won't let you get the inital assault by either going in reserver or bubble wrapping their tanks -- that trick is often called noobhammer.

Outflanking koptas are very nice. You can take shots on targets that are giving your problems, and often will get side/rear shots.

I would gladly spend 210 points to make my opponent reserve everything. He only get's one turn of shooting before I'm in his face and that one turn excludes ordnance barrage and heavy weapons. Oh, and he gets a random half of his army to fight all my orks, rather than a complete army.

The bubble-wrapping is a valid argument, though not all armies can do it or even care to do so. For marines, their beakies are more expensive than their bawkses, so why would they do so? Similarly Mech Eldar or IG parking lots simply don't bring anything to bubblewrap their vehicles with. Besides that, you only have a 50% chance to go first, when you aren't koptaz should go into reserves anyways.

Rejn wrote:I usually run 1-3 individually and always outflank, and they usually always take out a tank a piece, always been worth it

I've had 0 luck using them with buzzsaws, maybe I just don't understand the usefullness but str 7 on charge just seems like crap to me.

I know what you are talking about. Even with auto-hits three times S7 sometimes does nothing and it just gets worse with moving vehicles. Personally I prefer adding another kopta over buzz saws, because rokkits don't care for bubble wraps. With the rise of psyflemen, I think buzz saws have become more important, as they can fight back against walkers without DCCWs. I have had games where a single deff kopta killed six warwalkers and a fire prism by assaulting though, so I'm kind of split on that issue.

hamlet wrote:Hey. This is really helpful - cheers guys!

+1 Exalt for politeness!

Being a Space Wolves kind of guy I welcome anything that starts the game close to my deployement zone. I think the TL Rokkits add some mobile firepower that could hit a squad of 5 marines hard enough to do somthing.

i think deffcoptas are amazing and one of the best anti tank units the orks have if you equip them right. okay so lets give them twin linked rokkits and you are going to hit 2 thirds of the time and str 8 is nasty against things like dreads. and if you get buzzsaws its not str 7 on charge its str8 ( strength 3 +1 for furious charge and 4 doubled equals 8). all in all they are great and should always be ran in squads of one EVEN IN KILLPOINT GAMES! ( turbo charge them around for a 3+ cover save).

Jidmah wrote:I would gladly spend 210 points to make my opponent reserve everything. He only get's one turn of shooting before I'm in his face and that one turn excludes ordnance barrage and heavy weapons. Oh, and he gets a random half of his army to fight all my orks, rather than a complete army.

The bubble-wrapping is a valid argument, though not all armies can do it or even care to do so. For marines, their beakies are more expensive than their bawkses, so why would they do so? Similarly Mech Eldar or IG parking lots simply don't bring anything to bubblewrap their vehicles with. Besides that, you only have a 50% chance to go first, when you aren't koptaz should go into reserves anyways.

Well, some armies do very well with Reversing. I run an Mech'dar army that does reserving very well, and comes in on a 3+ due to an autoarch and can jet the tanks right over ork boys. My point is that on some armies the buzzsaw trick wont work at all.

Also, a beakie 'humie will not bubble wrap their rhino, they will bubble wrap their predators with their guys and leave the rhino sitting next to them unsecured.
In a similar note, IG players won't wrap their chimeras, they will wrap their Russ/Valkaries. In my IG list, I bring 4 vet squads. That's more than enough to wrap up my 3 Russ and 2 Valks. Again,it leaves the Chimeras open but Ill trade a chimera for a buzzsaw deffkopta.

Like I said, koptas work awesome for outflanking. It really helps in taking out those long fangs, psydreads, etc... Combined with Snikrot, you really can throw wrench's in the enemy plans.




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redrooster148 wrote: i think deffcoptas are amazing and one of the best anti tank units the orks have if you equip them right. okay so lets give them twin linked rokkits and you are going to hit 2 thirds of the time and str 8 is nasty against things like dreads. and if you get buzzsaws its not str 7 on charge its str8 ( strength 3 +1 for furious charge and 4 doubled equals 8). all in all they are great and should always be ran in squads of one EVEN IN KILLPOINT GAMES! ( turbo charge them around for a 3+ cover save).

My apologies for nit-picking, but TL rokkits don't hit 2/3 of the time. Its not a smooth 2/3 because your not re-rolling when you hit, so your only re-rolling 2/3 of the time.

The actual percentage of time that a BS 2 TL weapon hits is 55% of the time -- slightly better than an grot.

well you are right there but you can see the point im putting across how good twin linked weapons are for orks especially a weapon like a rokkit

redrooster148 wrote:well you are right there but you can see the point im putting across how good twin linked weapons are for orks especially a weapon like a rokkit

Oh no doubt! Hitting 55% of the damn good shooting for the ork codex.