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Okay so I just want a list of your top 5 most controversial rulings during tournament play. We are completing the FAQ ( http://www.foxelvensword.com/tournaments.html), and would like help identifying some of the FAQ's people feel are important for their armies or as regards other armies. I dont want to start a flame war so try to confiine responses to what the issue IS instead of an impassioned plea for agreement! Lol.

FNP vs Hexrifle, Entropic Strike, Pinning, et. al.
Removed from Play vs Removed from Play as a casualty
Crowe's Cleansing Flame benefiting from his Rending

Does Trayzan's Obliterator activate on the CCB Sweep ?

Empathic obliterator is resolved at the end of an assault.

The idea is to post question ideas for an FAQ, not debate them

The point is that that one isnt contentious - CCB Sweep is not an assault, so it cannot activate. No if's buts or queries possible there.

Sweeping Advance vs Ever Living (it kills them, regardless of whether they are downed before Sweeping Advance kicks off or not, but some posters here dont understand what "specific" means, so there's a chance you wil have similar issues)

does the storm lord's lightning go away if he dies or is off the table by turn 2? (i.e. not on the board from reserves or something)?

Does an IC get their special move like jet packs or bike if leaving a squad during the movement phase?

are GK vehicles counted as psykers? (i.e. for culexus)

can you take a wound off the overlord to prevent a barge from wrecking if you immobilize after going flat out?

How do you resolve multiple cleansing flames at the same time?

Does mind shackle scarabs work if you select "Parry" for GK's "The perfect warrior"?

If you mindstrike missle a squad of GK's, do they just all take 1 perils test collectively or does each model hit take a test?

Can you use searchlights if your weapons were destroyed or stunned/shaken or potentially out of range?

This thread falls under "how to make the flame war thread of all flame war threads". Lets discuss every controversial topic in one thread.

It's funny how some people can't state a contentious issue without explaining their side of it. That being said

Q: Does a Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command
Barge benefit from Furious Charge on a Sweep Attack?
In addition, are Sweep Attacks close combat attacks?
(p52)
A: No to both questions.

Empathic Obliterator works on close combat attacks only. This one has been solved.

Sudo - mindstrike is very easily answered by reading BoP - a mindstrike missile is VERY definitely an attack against psykers, so only the Justicar (or whoever) takes however many Perils results are required

Are GK vehicles with Psychic Pilot counted as psykers (for all purposes)?

ND - it's only contentious if you take the single most convoluted possible route to arriving at a result. The very definition of easter egg hunting to try to claim that EL circumvents SA, and yours (and others) arguments have been destroyed at every turn. There is literally no single argument that has been brought up that asts longer than 5 seconds, and it is simply a stubborn refusal to read rules that causes long threads on the topic.


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Nemesor Dave wrote:Are GK vehicles with Psychic Pilot counted as psykers (for all purposes)?

Only if you deliberately alter the structure of the sentence away from the standard English readin of the sentence.

In other words - you can claim the sky is green, but only if you change what the word green means.

BTW if you don't know already, this isn't the best way to create a FAQ. You're better off just using INAT.

Nemesor Dave wrote:BTW if you don't know already, this isn't the best way to create a FAQ. You're better off just using INAT.

Not really - understand the rules changes that INAT has made, and then decide if you agree with them. Same as any other time you use someone elses work, you should understand their biases / mistakes / alterations to rules and determine if you agree with them. It is a good document, but there are plenty of blatant rules changes n there - there always have been - that are stated as "clarifications"

nosferatu1001 wrote:ND - it's only contentious if you take the single most convoluted possible route to arriving at a result. The very definition of easter egg hunting to try to claim that EL circumvents SA, and yours (and others) arguments have been destroyed at every turn. There is literally no single argument that has been brought up that asts longer than 5 seconds, and it is simply a stubborn refusal to read rules that causes long threads on the topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Are GK vehicles with Psychic Pilot counted as psykers (for all purposes)?

Only if you deliberately alter the structure of the sentence away from the standard English readin of the sentence.

In other words - you can claim the sky is green, but only if you change what the word green means.

Not trying to pick a side, just stating the question in a way that could be yes or no. Answered either way should clear up the rest of the rule.


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Can models with the Rage USR ignore enemies that a line cannot be drawn from their eyes to the model?

Must units with Rage when moving towards an enemy move every model in the unit as closes as possible?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:BTW if you don't know already, this isn't the best way to create a FAQ. You're better off just using INAT.

Not really - understand the rules changes that INAT has made, and then decide if you agree with them. Same as any other time you use someone elses work, you should understand their biases / mistakes / alterations to rules and determine if you agree with them. It is a good document, but there are plenty of blatant rules changes n there - there always have been - that are stated as "clarifications"

Fair enough. Either way he has a lot of research to do.

apparantly this one needs a definate answer
Cough Cough

Can doc grotz give a cybork body to dreads. Before you respond, yes this has raised a recent fight. Love to have this one headed off now before it starts a fight at tourny.

Don't forget the "Does pivoting allow you extra movement" debacle.

It isnt a debate, because it doesnt allow extra movement. It alters displacement, it does not make you Move any further

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:BTW if you don't know already, this isn't the best way to create a FAQ. You're better off just using INAT.

Not really - understand the rules changes that INAT has made, and then decide if you agree with them. Same as any other time you use someone elses work, you should understand their biases / mistakes / alterations to rules and determine if you agree with them. It is a good document, but there are plenty of blatant rules changes n there - there always have been - that are stated as "clarifications"

I kind of agree with this. Look at the more comprehensive FAQ's written for the larger tournaments like Adepticon and the ETC. That doesn't mean you have to agree with or wholesale adopt those FAQ rulings, but at least you can get an idea on the issues that might come up at a larger tournament. From there, you can use a ruling that you see in an existing FAQ, or make your own ruling. These other FAQ's would just be a starting point for designing your own.

If you're a smaller tournament (and you are), I would just go with rulings on the spot or have judges. You're unlikely to cover everything with a FAQ, unless you adopt INAT.

Drop pod doors:
1) Hull or not?
2) Can other models stand on top of them?
3) Do they block LOS?
4) Can you leave them closed or do you have to open them (or treat them as open if they're glued in)?

I know the INAT. I just need a list of the issues you run into that I need to anticipate will be problems or questions for some players. That's all I need really. And I appreciate the list thus far!

I hate to say it, but the best way (IMO) to determine how to rule on controversial rules questions is to spend about 2 months in the YMDC forums and read some of the comprehensive FAQs.

You will see all the common questions in the forum so you can take a position on them and FAQ's provide a solid grounding for the rules in their explanation.

Maybe. But im not going to. So since thats not happening, I am instead just asking. Does the work for me of consolidating it. We won't hit all the points but in the end, perfection isn't attainable anyways and time not unlimited or I'd entertain a lot of forums and their respective FAQ's.

I disagree with the INAT in places so I think it best just to identify the issues and research them. Then the judges can work on how we want to deal with them based on what we see in the rules now. The INAT is definitely a resource, dont get me wrong. But once I say "using the INAT" I also have to allow things i really don't agree with. So that doesn't really work.

Again, those contributing are really helping and keep it up!

Jancoran wrote:Maybe. But im not going to.

That is good, it is usually best to go in ask for a quick summary and then make important decisions based on limited experience and understanding. I have found this strategy to be successful in resolving rules debates in many game situations by just saying 'on a 4+ I am correct?'

Rerolling failed vs forced rerolling of passed?

Can Mad Dok Grotsnik give Cybork Bodies to vehicles?

Can Crowe rend with Cleansing Flame?

Are drop pod doors hull, and do they affect game play in any way?

Can we have a clearer explanation with a Hive Guard's impaler cannon vs Cover.

Deadshot from the BRB FAQ:

Q: If a unit has a special rule that lets it re-roll failed
saves and is being affected by an enemy special rule
that makes them re-roll successful saves how is this
resolved? (p25)
A: Whilst you should technically roll all the dice and
then re-roll them, just roll the saves once and apply the
results to save time.

Ah, missed that. Thanks.

Can Anrakyr (or similar) use their non-shooting special abilities requiring LOS while on an open-topped transport. For that matter, why does the FAQ clarify that shooting can use fire points to draw LOS, but other types of LOS can't?

rigeld2 wrote:
FNP vs Hexrifle, Entropic Strike, Pinning, et. al.

Hexrifle has the sniper rule so a 6 to wound says no to FNP, entropic strike removes your armor it does not make the other attacks ignore all amror saves so yes you get FNP. Now if it is do you get FNP do you loose your armor from Entropic Strike...lets not go there.

rigeld2 wrote:
Removed from Play vs Removed from Play as a casualty

It will say as a casualty otherwise you are simply removed (honestly this is another "questionable" field.)

Some of mine would be:
Webway Portal Marker from GW? cover yes or no. Legal yes or no.
If you go first can you deploy deathmarks and mark an enemy unit even though your opponent hasn't deployed yet?

Akroma06 wrote:
If you go first can you deploy deathmarks and mark an enemy unit even though your opponent hasn't deployed yet?

If you go first and deploy your deathmarks are there any non-vehicle enemy units on the board?